"Damian Lillard is the Third Best Blazer Ever" / Bill Simmons

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Blazers Roy

Blazers Roy

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So Bill Simmons had this long monologue on his podcast where he compares Walton,Clyde and Dame.

Starts around 20:30 minute mark:
https://www.theringer.com/bill-simm...-flames-out-with-chris-ryan-and-wesley-morris



I love Dame, but i tend to agree with Bill - mostly because i'm biased towards higher peaks in one's career rather than a longer career with less accomplishments.

A little extra nugget i saw:
Dame Playoffs: 22-40 (12 series; 8 seasons)
Clyde Playoffs: 45-48 (20 series; 11 seasons)

Thought some of you would find it interesting.

Text version:

“I’m gonna be the old guy for a second. There’s been a lot of stuff about Damian Lillard being the greatest Blazer of all time. I’ve seen it in multiple places. I’ve heard people say it on TV that I thought follow basketball. I’ve seen it in print. It seems to be the general consensus he’s the best Blazer ever. He’s the third best Blazer ever.”

“I think [Bill Walton] is the greatest ‘what-if?’ guy of the last 50 years. He was the best player on the planet for 18 months. How we feel about Jokic right now, we felt about Bill Walton all of the ‘77 season into the first 60 games of ‘78 when they went 50-10 and he got hurt, and that was it. When I did [“The Book of Basketball”] I had him in I think in the low 30s [of greatest NBA player rankings] because [of] the fact he won a title in Portland with a team built around everything that he was great at. On paper, maybe the great center ever in terms of total package. [Bill] Russell is the greatest center. [Kareem Abdul-Jabbar] is the second best center. But if you’re just talking about tools and ceiling and what a center can do on both ends, everything, doing the stuff [Nikola] Jokic did in the playoffs combined with shot-blocking and rebounding — he has to be the greatest Blazer ever. He’s the only one that won them a title. I’m sorry. That wins.”

“This is where I become the old guy. What the [expletive]? Clyde Drexler. Were any of you there for that? Clyde Drexler was awesome. I have Clyde Drexler right now on my pyramid as 52 and I have Dame in the low 70s. Clyde was the MVP runner-up in ‘92 to Jordan. I think [Lillard] was fourth once. Clyde made two Finals in 1990 and ‘92 during I think the single most competitive time in the history of the league: 1990 to 1993. Clyde and the Blazers beat the Lakers, they dethroned the Lakers. Only two teams did that in the entire ‘80s in the West: the ‘86 Rockets who were a complete fluke with [Ralph] Sampson and Hakeem [Olajuwon], and then the ‘90 Blazers. Clyde was basically 25 [points], seven [rebounds] and seven [assists] for it felt like eight [or] nine years. ... He was the second-best guard of [Michael] Jordan’s entire generation. He made the All-NBA Team — First Team once, Second-Team twice, Third Team three times.”

... “He’s one of those guys who’s a little like Dame. If he’s your best guy, I’m not sure you’re winning the title, but if he’s your second best guy like he was in Houston in ‘95, he’s overqualified. He’s like that 1B superstar.”

“The Point is, we have to stop acting like basketball started when LeBron [James] or Kobe [Bryant] came into the league. You can’t say Dame is the best Portland Trail Blazer ever when Drexler was on the Portland Trail Blazers. Dame has never won a game in the conference finals, so he made the conference finals once, they got swept. His career just wasn’t as good as Clyde’s so far, and he’s actually played less years than Clyde did in Portland. He had the two walk-off playoff series winning shots, he’s one of the best 3-point shooters of all time. They’ve had some bad luck on the team from a roster standpoint, and I’m not dinging Dame on that, but when people start throwing ‘greatest’ around just do some research. Clyde Drexler was awesome. ... We always talk about ‘legacy, legacy, legacy.’ Drexler’s legacy was really good, and we’re talking about it incorrectly, so maybe legacy doesn’t matter as much as we thought.”
Click to expand...




1238906302.0.jpg
 
Simmons says some stupid stuff, but this was obviously true even before everyone turned on Dame for his trade request. Of course, it's also true that both Walton and Drexler were surrounded by better talent on their finals teams.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Simmons says some stupid stuff, but this was obviously true even before everyone turned on Dame for his trade request. Of course, it's also true that both Walton and Drexler were surrounded by better talent on their finals teams.
Click to expand...
Walton was obviously better at his peak than Dame is, was or ever will be... I'm not sure I can say the same about Clyde and I love Clyde. Clyde just had a better team around him. Dame has had not only less talent on his teams than Clyde and Walton did when they were most successful but Olshey never gave a fuck about fit and the way both Walton's Blazers and Clyde's Blazers fit together was a thing of beauty.

So for me it was always that Dame was going to be the best Blazers player of all time. Now because none of them will have finished the race here and Dame just edged out Clyde on points, I think it's a very hard discussion... unless you're like Bill Simmons and peaks are more important to you than sustained excellence and you absolutely disregard what a player is surrounded with and define his success by team achievement. At that point yeah Dame is obviously third but I think that lacks the nuance necessary to make a fair conclusion.
 
Blazers Roy said:
So Bill Simmons had this long monologue on his podcast where he compares Walton,Clyde and Dame.

Starts around 20:30 minute mark:
https://www.theringer.com/bill-simm...-flames-out-with-chris-ryan-and-wesley-morris



I love Dame, but i tend to agree with Bill - mostly because i'm biased towards higher peaks in one's career rather than a longer career with less accomplishments.

A little extra nugget i saw:
Dame Playoffs: 22-40 (12 series; 8 seasons)
Clyde Playoffs: 45-48 (20 series; 11 seasons)

Thought some of you would find it interesting.

Text version:






1238906302.0.jpg
Click to expand...
Why are you showing a photo of a Miami Heat, a Boston Celtic and a Houston Rocket?
 
I hate to say it because it hurts so much, but if we're talking "what ifs", there is no more brutal what if than if Arvydas Sabonis would have come over in 1986. The healthy Arvydas may have been the greatest player ever. As big as Wemby (but much stronger), as offensively talented as Larry Bird, the passing vision of Magic Johnson, and as athletic as David Robinson.

THAT would have been our greatest Blazer. Better than Big Bill at the height of his powers (which I was lucky enough to see in person).
 
maxiep said:
I hate to say it because it hurts so much, but if we're talking "what ifs", there is no more brutal what if than if Arvydas Sabonis would have come over in 1986. The healthy Arvydas may have been the greatest player ever. As big as Wemby (but much stronger), as offensively talented as Larry Bird, the passing vision of Magic Johnson, and as athletic as David Robinson.

THAT would have been our greatest Blazer. Better than Big Bill at the height of his powers (which I was lucky enough to see in person).
Click to expand...

Between Walton, Bowie, Sabonis, and Oden...a few breaks here and there -- wait, a few less breaks here and there -- and this franchise could easily surpass LA and Houston for the best ever collection of centers.

Somewhere, Nurk is jumping up and down, saying, "pick me! pick me!"
 
One of the things for me when it comes to comparisons like this is the question of: Who would you rely on the most in the last seconds to get you the winning shot?

For me it is Walton.
 
Sloth said:
One of the things for me when it comes to comparisons like this is the question of: Who would you rely on the most in the last seconds to get you the winning shot?

For me it is Walton.
Click to expand...
You need a basket in the last few seconds to win you a game, and you're NOT taking Dame out of those 3?!
 
Walton is below both.

I was leaning towards Dame over Clyde in recent years because I didn't like Clyde's exit from the team or coldness to the franchise later. But Clyde wasnt this disrespectful as Dame is being, so I can't really assume Dame will be far better as I was suspecting before.

I'd rank them Clyde Dame Walton.

Walton was too short of a period and too many injuries. Obviously with a title he has the best single season, but I would attribute some of the credit to teammates and GM.
 
handiman said:
Between Walton, Bowie, Sabonis, and Oden...a few breaks here and there -- wait, a few less breaks here and there -- and this franchise could easily surpass LA and Houston for the best ever collection of centers.

Somewhere, Nurk is jumping up and down, saying, "pick me! pick me!"
Click to expand...
Is Nurk even above Joel Pryzbilla?
 
KingSpeed said:
I see one All Star there. Meanwhile, Lakers have Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Divac, Shaq.
Click to expand...
Two HoFers, though....and Sabonis beat Divac 14-8 and had much higher PER (fewer win shares, though, due to the injuries and showing up late, injured and past his prime.)

I'll give you Wilt and Shaq though.
 
Damian was a 10 on offense and a 2 on defense. Clyde was about an 8 on both ends. Walton was probably the best but he played so few games overall it's hard to award him that title.
 
beast crnjo said:
Damian was a 10 on offense and a 2 on defense. Clyde was about an 8 on both ends. Walton was probably the best but he played so few games overall it's hard to award him that title.
Click to expand...

And that is where debates can be had. Greatest....in terms of peak level, or greatest in terms of accumulation?
 
Sloth said:
One of the things for me when it comes to comparisons like this is the question of: Who would you rely on the most in the last seconds to get you the winning shot?

For me it is Walton.
Click to expand...

For me it is which players/teams play such that you aren't regularly in a position where you need a last second shot to win the game.

Dame has risen to fame by making those shots. The Walton & Drexler led teams generally did not needs such heroics.

Yes. People will point out that the Walton & Drexler teams had better talent or perhaps, just better coherence as a team. However, as someone who has watched all three. I would take the beautiful team play I consistently saw with Walton/Drexler over the consistently ISO play we have gotten from Dame. That may be partially due to coaching but think about the change in playing style last year once Dame sat. Yes, we lost but the games were much more enjoyable to watch. There was much more passing and movement.

So the heretical question I ask is: "Is Dame complicit or at least partially responsible for some of our lack of success due to the style in which he plays?"

After seeing Scoot in one SL game, I am thrilled to see a different style of play and perhaps, more of team ball rather than Hero ball.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Walton was too short of a period and too many injuries. Obviously with a title he has the best single season, but I would attribute some of the credit to teammates and GM.
Click to expand...
You can’t be serious. Walton was the straw that stirred the drink on that championship team. He was the engine that made the car go. The whole offense revolved around him and his passing abilities. He lifted up that team and carried it to a championship against a team with Julius Irving that was heavily favoured to win. No other Blazer has even come close to achieving what Walton did.
 
Bingo Bango said:
You can’t be serious. Walton was the straw that stirred the drink on that championship team. He was the engine that made the car go. The whole offense revolved around him and his passing abilities. He lifted up that team and carried it to a championship against a team with Julius Irving that was heavily favoured to win. No other Blazer has even come close to achieving what Walton did.
Click to expand...

Offensively....AND Defensively. That defense part gets brushed aside so often, but defense wins championships. The refs swallow the whistles and defense plays a much bigger part than in the regular season.
 
maxiep said:
I hate to say it because it hurts so much, but if we're talking "what ifs", there is no more brutal what if than if Arvydas Sabonis would have come over in 1986. The healthy Arvydas may have been the greatest player ever. As big as Wemby (but much stronger), as offensively talented as Larry Bird, the passing vision of Magic Johnson, and as athletic as David Robinson.

THAT would have been our greatest Blazer. Better than Big Bill at the height of his powers (which I was lucky enough to see in person).
Click to expand...

Dude would have been a nightmare for the rest of the league. An alien.



Can't forget about Petrovic as well. That would be like giving up on prime Beal today.
 
beast crnjo said:
Damian was a 10 on offense and a 2 on defense. Clyde was about an 8 on both ends. Walton was probably the best but he played so few games overall it's hard to award him that title.
Click to expand...
Championship and MVP trump all else IMO. But so does behavior.

Walton is the best Blazer ever.

Dame and Clyde are close.

Dame's BS has hurt him, IMO.
 
Blazers Roy said:
Dude would have been a nightmare for the rest of the league. An alien.



Can't forget about Petrovic as well. That would be like giving up on prime Beal today.
Click to expand...

So many "what ifs" with this franchise. What if we won the coin flip and got Hakeem, what if we drafted Barkley/Jordan over Bowe, what if Sabonis came over to play with Clyde, what if we drafted Durant and had a big 3 of Roy, Durant, LA. Or what if we took Chris Paul and had a backcourt of Paul/Roy....
 
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