Damian Lillard needs to be held accountable for his D

[noknobs]

Yeah I really did not see that last night. Nurk was never visibly pissed at Dame.

Dame's D was not great but last night he played 41 minutes (compared to Jackson who played 24 and Ish who played 29, and the two of them were a combined 9-25 and some of those baskets were off of offensive rebounds.

Dame exerts a lot of energy on offense because we need him to. He will never be an elite defender because of it. Only a few are very good two way players. Not sure why we always focus our defensive problems on our guards when IMO it is our best defenders who struggle the most on a nightly basis. (Harkless and Aminu) Their focus should only be on defense, yet too many times it is the stretch 4's that are lighting us up from the outside. Last night it was Morris' turn. Are they leaving their man to help on Ish Smith? (who was 5-13) The defensive team strategy is the bigger issue IMO.

Someone who gets it, how refreshing.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

You mean a slimy, egomaniac who is always looking out for his own best interests at every turn?

No thank you.

I was thinking of style he runs. He always got his players to play good D.

 

[illmatic99]

I was thinking of style he runs. He always got his players to play good D.

Might have had something to do with personnel. I don't remember his NY teams being all that good on defense after he weaseled his way out of DET (was taking interviews DURING the conference finals). I hate that POS.

It's 2017, and people still think of this guy as a standard for coaching.

 

[julius]

Lots of NBA players are terrible defenders (for the NBA) and it's not because they don't try or don't have the physical tools, it's because defense (beyond the youth or high school level) requires talent, not just effort. Just as all players aren't talented passers or scorers, all players aren't talented defenders. I know it feels good to blast players as just "not caring" or "not trying" because it's harder to yell at a guy to "be more talented."

What exactly is the 'talent'? Outside of speed and good footwork, is it brain? long arms?

Or the fact that you actually have to play it and are being held accountable?

Defense requires more effort than it does talent. Having physical characteristics do help (being tall, long arms, able to jump out of the gym, etc), but it's not like Damian is the PG equivalent of the 2017 version of Avydas Sabonis.

He has talent. He's fast, has good footwork, he's athletic and quick. And he's obviously not stupid.

 

[julius]

Demarcus Cousins has made the all nba 2nd team two years in a row....just sayin

as a PG?

 

[julius]

What about his other seasons

Good point, but I think his defense this season has been worse. Or at least the system of defense the team plays (and for most of the season, there wasn't a system of defense that the team played) has been worse.

 

[julius]

Here's the thing...when Damian HAS played defense, he's played it well. Because he actually can play defense.

It's just that outside of that 2 minute stretch of the season...

 

[Minstrel]

So in your opinion, an ultra quick, great bball iq player doesn't have the talent to play average defense

Yeah, because defense requires its own set of circuitry, just like passing. Harkless is quick and has solid basketball IQ, that doesn't mean he can be a good passer if he just tried harder. The idea that defense is just athleticism and effort, and doesn't require its own talent, is unfounded in my opinion.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I agree but if this was the GSW no one would be saying anything about Steph Curry defense. Winning cures all and it's not all Dame's fault!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What exactly is the 'talent'? Outside of speed and good footwork, is it brain? long arms?

Or the fact that you actually have to play it and are being held accountable?

Defense requires more effort than it does talent. Having physical characteristics do help (being tall, long arms, able to jump out of the gym, etc), but it's not like Damian is the PG equivalent of the 2017 version of Avydas Sabonis.

He has talent. He's fast, has good footwork, he's athletic and quick. And he's obviously not stupid.

Minstrel has posited previously that defensive talent includes the ability to consistently read, recognize, and respond to the opposition's offense in a manner that allows you to be in or get to the right place at the right time. Split second pattern recognition and reaction. If I've read and understood Minstrel correctly, he isn't saying that Dame doesn't have the physical ability to play defense, but that the mental makeup necessary to be an effective defender (which, BTW, is a lot more than simple cognition) is not necessarily a given for even the most gifted basketball players, Dame included.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Dame was visibly spent at the end of the Detroit game. You're not going to play great defense when you're exhausted.

So, Alternate Question: Why was he so tired? I hate Westbrook, but he plays harder than Dame and seems to be never this tired.

 

[illmatic99]

Dame was visibly spent at the end of the Detroit game. You're not going to play great defense when you're exhausted.

So, Alternate Question: Why was he so tired? I hate Westbrook, but he plays harder than Dame and seems to be never this tired.

Russell isn't human.

 

[Minstrel]

What exactly is the 'talent'? Outside of speed and good footwork, is it brain? long arms?

Talent is in the brain, yes. What is "passing talent?" It's the ability to see the lanes even before they open up and understand the angles intuitively, etc. Defensive talent is the same thing--it's having an innate feel for how nine other people are moving, where to be next--not to snuff the current action, but rather to snuff the real action that the offense is trying to set up two steps down the line. It's easy to learn the basics and anyone, with enough effort, can learn enough to figure all these things out while watching film and being able to stop or slow down the film--being able to figure it all out from the middle of the action at full speed is talent. Everything in the NBA takes effort, but effort isn't enough.

 

[julius]

Talent is in the brain, yes. What is "passing talent?" It's the ability to see the lanes even before they open up and understand the angles intuitively, etc. Defensive talent is the same thing--it's having an innate feel for how nine other people are moving, where to be next not to snuff the current action, but rather the real action that the defense is trying to set up two steps down the line. It's easy to learn the basics and anyone, with enough effort, can learn enough to figure all these things out while watching film and being able to stop or slow down the film--being able to figure it all out from the middle of the action at full speed is talent. Everything in the NBA takes effort, but effort isn't enough.

So Ruben Patterson was smart?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah, because defense requires its own set of circuitry, just like passing. Harkless is quick and has solid basketball IQ, that doesn't mean he can be a good passer if he just tried harder. The idea that defense is just athleticism and effort, and doesn't require its own talent, is unfounded in my opinion.

Excellent example. Similarly, many great rebounders can see where the ball is coming off the rim much sooner and easier than others. I doubt that is completely explainable or teachable, some of that is simply innate. Or the ability to properly time/direct shot blocking attempts--I don't think Hassan Whiteside would be able to teach Meyers Leonard his secrets even if he wanted to.

There's a lot in basketball that is innate and instinctual, and it's possible that much of a player's defensive ability falls into that category.

 

[Minstrel]

So Ruben Patterson was smart?

Just because I said the word "brain" doesn't mean I'm talking about all-around intelligence. Everything to do with perception, recognition, awareness comes from the brain. Patterson obviously had tremendous defensive awareness and capacity for defensive recognition. That doesn't mean he had the same awareness and recognition for passing (thus, just because Lillard has the awareness and recognition necessary to be a good passer, it doesn't mean he has the same capacities for defense) or that he was a smart guy when it came to off-court situations.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So Ruben Patterson was smart?

There are many different types of intelligence beyond that which is measured by the IQ test. I have no doubt that Ruben Patterson has areas of aptitude in which he far surpasses you or me.

 

[BigGameDamian]

You make all-star games and one of the all NBA teams by playing offense not defense and he knows that so why play it this is his thought process. There is all defense team but that team is not want make you have these over paid contracts. Then you have a coach think the same way that offense is more important of the game and that his state of mind. Bottom line we properly wont have contending team until we get a coach holds players accountable what they do on the court. Old saying is nice guys finish last. This why warriors Cleveland the Spurs always have chance at the ring because there coach hold there players accountable for there play.

Your right. Not just in the NBA but in basketball in general offense is more important than defense. Offense sells in today's game and everyone wants a shooters touch.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Russell isn't human.

As an aside, just saw his most recent Foot Locker commercial for the first time this morning (yeah, I'm behind the times), and it cracked me up. Loved Bill Russell's appearance.

Spoiler

 

[Mediocre Man]

as a PG?

Not the point

 

[Troy.Ave]

I remember when Oden was exposed for his D.

Hahahaha

 

[Troy.Ave]

Anyone with the strength he has to finish around the basket and the quickness to blow by people over and over again should not be THIS BAD on the defensive end. I'm not saying he has to be a lock-down defender...those are rare. But to on an almost nightly basis get torched or give up season highs to someone he should be dominating is worrisome and this isn't new.

Dame is a very good PG....on the offensive end. If that were the entire game, it wouldn't be such a big issue. As for the shot selection, the shot at the end of the 1st half tells a lot where his mindset is. A leaning sideways 28'er after dribbling for 22 seconds. A terrible shot on any level.

Omg I HATE when he does that. That's why his 3 point shooting isn't that good this year

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yeah, because defense requires its own set of circuitry, just like passing. Harkless is quick and has solid basketball IQ, that doesn't mean he can be a good passer if he just tried harder. The idea that defense is just athleticism and effort, and doesn't require its own talent, is unfounded in my opinion.

Defense requires effort. Dame has all the talent in the world to even sorta stay in front of his man, and doesn't. It is entirely an effort issue.

 

[e_blazer]

Defense requires effort. Dame has all the talent in the world to even sorta stay in front of his man, and doesn't. It is entirely an effort issue.

For a guy who routinely uses a hesitation dribble to lull his man to sleep before blowing by him for a layup, Dame seems at times oblivious to the signs that his man is about to do the same thing to him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Dame was visibly spent at the end of the Detroit game. You're not going to play great defense when you're exhausted.

So, Alternate Question: Why was he so tired? I hate Westbrook, but he plays harder than Dame and seems to be never this tired.

It's the offense we play (not a complaint) lots of motion.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So Ruben Patterson was smart?

So was Rodman

 

[riverman]

Dame had a hell of a game last night....he's our first option on offense...I for one don't want Ricky Rubio for his defense and passing....Dame got nearly a triple double last night...he's beasting ..playing big minutes and knows he HAS to score at the end of games to give us a chance....what we miss is a guy like Nic Batum guarding opposing pt guards to keep Dame with fresh legs...Dame is getting to the line more...getting more assists and rebounds...the last guy we want to bash on the team.......2 time MVP Steve Nash was no stellar defender either

 

[Mediocre Man]

Excellent example. Similarly, many great rebounders can see where the ball is coming off the rim much sooner and easier than others. I doubt that is completely explainable or teachable, some of that is simply innate. Or the ability to properly time/direct shot blocking attempts--I don't think Hassan Whiteside would be able to teach Meyers Leonard his secrets even if he wanted to.

There's a lot in basketball that is innate and instinctual, and it's possible that much of a player's defensive ability falls into that category.

No one expects him to make an all defensive team, just TRY. He doesn't even try to stay in front of his man. Me, and others that are basketball smarter than me, think it's because he believes he can get it back. We will never win a title with Dame until he outs forth more effort on defense. Again, just TRY

 

[Mediocre Man]

Dame had a hell of a game last night....he's our first option on offense...I for one don't want Ricky Rubio for his defense and passing....Dame got nearly a triple double last night...he's beasting ..playing big minutes and knows he HAS to score at the end of games to give us a chance....what we miss is a guy like Nic Batum guarding opposing pt guards to keep Dame with fresh legs...Dame is getting to the line more...getting more assists and rebounds...the last guy we want to bash on the team.......2 time MVP Steve Nash was no stellar defender either

Played a hell of a game offensively. Had he put forth more effort on defense and threw the ball in to Nurk, maybe that game has a different outcome

 

[Mediocre Man]

Dame had a hell of a game last night....he's our first option on offense...I for one don't want Ricky Rubio for his defense and passing....Dame got nearly a triple double last night...he's beasting ..playing big minutes and knows he HAS to score at the end of games to give us a chance....what we miss is a guy like Nic Batum guarding opposing pt guards to keep Dame with fresh legs...Dame is getting to the line more...getting more assists and rebounds...the last guy we want to bash on the team.......2 time MVP Steve Nash was no stellar defender either

All Nash's rings are blinding me