Dave @ BE: Trade Idea (Prince & Hinrich)

[Crimson the Cat]

Not sure I like it. I love the incoming players but our 2nd unit would really lack scoring. Since we'd be getting Prince I would prefer we include Batum (one of my favorite players) in the deal and take Rudy out. Losing Rudy, Webster and Travis would severaly hurt our offense.

I think Bayless and Ellington could make up for that. Besides how much offense do we need when we're up by 30 every night after the 1st quarter?

 

[Denny Crane]

The Bulls might do this trade, as it takes $4.5M off their books and the rumor is that Hinrich will be gone for sure.

The big rumor to date has been Hinrich to Minny for #6, which would save them even more. But they'd have to sign that #6 which would eat up ~$2M+ of the savings. It's probably worth it to pay an extra $2M for a guy you know can be backup PG to Rose.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

One thing that occurred to me was that if we did send Sergio to the Knicks for their traded-player exception, and we made the move for Kirk below, we'd still have $1.7M in cap space.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

The Bulls might do this trade, as it takes $4.5M off their books and the rumor is that Hinrich will be gone for sure.

Actually if you look at the life of the contracts, the Bulls would save $22.5M. And that move would likely save more than just the $4.5 difference in salary this season, but also get them under the lower luxury tax threshold, where before they may have had an additional $3M in tax. Savings for this season could be as much as $7.5M.

The big rumor to date has been Hinrich to Minny for #6, which would save them even more. But they'd have to sign that #6 which would eat up ~$2M+ of the savings. It's probably worth it to pay an extra $2M for a guy you know can be backup PG to Rose.

I don't understand how Minnesota does this though. They definitely can't do it before July 1st. If we assume the salary cap is going to be set for next year at $57M and they have committed salary and cap holds (from their three 1st round draft picks) of $55.4M, that leaves them with $1.6M in cap space. They can't absorb the additional salary.

 

[Denny Crane]

Actually if you look at the life of the contracts, the Bulls would save $22.5M. And that move would likely save more than just the $4.5 difference in salary this season, but also get them under the lower luxury tax threshold, where before they may have had an additional $3M in tax. Savings for this season could be as much as $7.5M.

I don't understand how Minnesota does this though. They definitely can't do it before July 1st. If we assume the salary cap is going to be set for next year at $57M and they have committed salary and cap holds (from their three 1st round draft picks) of $55.4M, that leaves them with $1.6M in cap space. They can't absorb the additional salary.

http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php#jump_MIN

Looks to me like they're $10M under the cap before cap holds and adjustment to the cap.

If Minny drafts for the Bulls then trades the player, the Bulls would be taking back $2.5M or so.

I don't think the life of the contract is the issue for the Bulls. They do need cap space right now if they want to make Ben Gordon a decent sized offer. But next season, the Bulls have $25M coming off the books in Jerome James, Tim Thomas, and Brad Miller.

I'd love to see them offer Deng and some of that expiring to Toronto for Bosh.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Kahn addressed season ticket holders:

-When asked about rumored trades, he mentioned Kirk Hinrich whom he described as a nice player who makes too much money. He said Hinrich is not what the team is looking for offensively

Link

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I think Bayless and Ellington could make up for that. Besides how much offense do we need when we're up by 30 every night after the 1st quarter?

I'm high on Bayless but I really doubt he can produce what Travis and Rudy produce off the bench especially in his 2nd year.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php#jump_MIN

Looks to me like they're $10M under the cap before cap holds and adjustment to the cap.

If Minny drafts for the Bulls then trades the player, the Bulls would be taking back $2.5M or so.

I don't think the life of the contract is the issue for the Bulls. They do need cap space right now if they want to make Ben Gordon a decent sized offer. But next season, the Bulls have $25M coming off the books in Jerome James, Tim Thomas, and Brad Miller.

I'd love to see them offer Deng and some of that expiring to Toronto for Bosh.

Thanks for the link. Those figures are different from Storyteller's site. I'll have to explore this one. I like how it's organized better, but there's no color coding either.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Kahn addressed season ticket holders:



Link

Sweet!

 

[Sinobas]

I've never been that impressed with Hinrich. I know he's made a few all-nba defensive teams, but I have just never been that impressed with him when I see the Bulls play.

He reminds me of Greg Anthony...in that he's a good backup type player. On that same note, Blake is also backup material, but I'd hope we could use our cap space on a someone who really deserves that kind of money, like Artest, Hedo...or maybe even Andre Miller.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php#jump_MIN

Looks to me like they're $10M under the cap before cap holds and adjustment to the cap.

You're right. The $10M cap space is before the new cap is set and any cap holds. All indications I've heard are that the salary cap will likely go down. I've most commonly heard the cap being set at $57M. Also, those cap holds are significant, about $4.5M.

If anything they're likely looking at $2M in cap space unless they make some big adjustments.

 

[Denny Crane]

Your right. The $10M cap space is before the new cap is set and any cap holds. All indications I've heard are that the salary cap will likely go down. I've most commonly heard the cap being set at $57M. Also, those cap holds are significant, about $4.5M.

If anything they're likely looking at $2M in cap space unless they make some big adjustments.

By my figuring, they'd have $6M without cap holds before any trade (that's cap @ $57M).

So $2.5M (#6 pick, already drafted) gives them $3.5M.

$2.5M (the picked player) + $3.5M cap space < = > Hinrich @ $9.5M

Minny needs to throw in about $1.1M worth of salary to make the deal work.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

$2.5M (the picked player) + $3.5M cap space < = > Hinrich @ $9.5M

Minny needs to throw in about $1.1M worth of salary to make the deal work.

We can't include the value of the drafted player though, right? They hold no value in trades.

 

[Denny Crane]

We can't include the value of the drafted player though, right? They hold no value in trades.

If signed they do, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

They can obviously be traded - see Roy for Foye.

Edit: yep:

71. How are draft picks handled in trades?

Draft picks (both first and second round) count $0 for salary matching purposes. This is true both before and after the draft, until the player signs a contract. This can make it very difficult to construct a trade that is equitable in both trade value and basketball talent. For example, Vancouver selected Steve Francis with the #2 pick in the 1999 draft, and traded his draft rights to Houston. When the trade was finally engineered, it included three teams (Orlando was also involved), 11 players (including Francis) and two future draft picks.

Once the draft pick signs a contract, his actual salary becomes his trade value.

80. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?

Generally, a player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later. This does not apply to draft picks, who can be traded 30 days after signing their contract.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

According to John Hollinger's admittedly slightly dubious reckoning (he touts the stat then ignores it when he wants, most notably with Dwight Howard), Kirk Hinrich is a very good defender, but Tayshaun Prince has seriously slipped:

Point guards:
Honorable mention: Kirk Hinrich (-6.09) re-established himself as one of the league's better defenders in the backcourt after missing some time with an injury, though you wish he wouldn't leave his feet quite so much.
Small forwards:
Tayshaun Prince (+4.87) has been a fixture on this team in past years, but his adjusted plus-minus was terrible and it sure seemed as though guys had an easier time scoring on him than in the past.

Andre Iguodala is a STAR by adjusted plus/minus (-7.93) - but not as much as the biggest star in the league...








...Joel Przybilla (-8.86)!
Check out this dubious reasoning for not rating Przybilla in the top 3 for centers:

The leader in adjusted plus-minus this season was Portland's Joel Przybilla (-8.86), who seemingly blocks as many shots at the rim as anyone in the league and no longer goaltends two for every one he rejects. It's tough leaving him off the top three, but ultimately I have to for three reasons: (1) He didn't play a lot of minutes; (2) the Blazers as a whole weren't a particularly good defensive team, which would be an unlikely outcome if he were a truly dominant defensive center; and (3) look at the other three guys on this list and tell me which one you'd bump down.

This is particularly rich given that he rates Marcus Camby of the defensive juggernauts the Clippers #1... power forward. Yes, apparently Camby is a PF while Tim Duncan is a center.

 

[gambitnut]

The Bulls might do this trade, as it takes $4.5M off their books and the rumor is that Hinrich will be gone for sure.

The big rumor to date has been Hinrich to Minny for #6, which would save them even more. But they'd have to sign that #6 which would eat up ~$2M+ of the savings. It's probably worth it to pay an extra $2M for a guy you know can be backup PG to Rose.

Even if it is a down year for the draft, I don't see Minnesota trading the sixth pick for just Hinrich, and if they did, I wouldn't use it on a backup if I were Chicago, I'd hope Harden was still available.

 

[gambitnut]

If Hinrich was our starting PG next season, I would be seriously depressed. He is overrated by most on Blazer boards.

prince vs hedo? i would go with hedo....

hiendrick? he is ok not much of an upgrade to blake....really.

I agree with these. Hinrich is good, but I don't think he's a huge upgrade over Blake and his contract goes on forever, and Nate will probably keep Bayless on the bench as long as he is around. If we go after a SF type of player, I'd rather get a player that can take Outlaw's rold of playing PF as well as SF, and I think Hedo can do that better than Prince.

 

[Uther TheGardener]

yeah we need to move outlaw....