Decision Time On Options for CJ, Meyers and T-Rob

[Boob-No-More]

Hitting threes does not impress me for our center. I want our center to protect the paint and get rebounds.

Why do you assume they are mutually exclusive. How does his ability to hit 3-pointers on the offensive end negatively impact his rebounding and defense on the other end?

I guess I'm old school like that.

Well then you may remember a guy named Bill Laimbeer who could hit 3-pointers and was a great rebounder and a total thug when it came to protecting the paint on the other end. I'm not saying Meyers is the next Laimbeer, just pointing out hitting 3-pointers on offense does not automatically preclude doing the things you value on the other end.

Leonard will never be a center I support until he rebounds, boxes out and makes a much better effort defensively

I think you have made up your mind and aren't really seeing the improvement. Yes, it's been slow (which was expected when he was drafted), but he has made progress. Rebounding was the one area he actually improved from his first year to his second. His TRB% went from an unimpressive (but not Bargnani bad) 12.3% as a rookie to a respectable 16.8% last year (second highest on the team). I haven't seen too many of the preseason games, but the two I watched (one of the Utah games and the Lakers game), Meyers looked better on the boards and on defense. He was actively boxing out and going after rebounds and had a couple solid blocks where he was in the right place at the right time and did the right thing.

I'm not saying we should, or shouldn't, pick up his option, just that there has been improvement. It's been slow, but it is there. Is it enough to pick up his option? I don't know. Glad it's not my call. He showed promise on offense his rookie year, but regressed significantly in that area his second season. In preseason (usual disclaimer), he seems to have his offensive touch back and more importantly, his confidence, and is rebounding at a rate comparable to his second season and seems to be playing better defense (from what I've seen). If he could just put all three aspects together and continue to improve, he'd be worth the $3 million investment. I'll leave that decision to the coaches that work with him on a daily basis and the GM who has a plan for managing cap space moving forward. It's not an easy call.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Why do you assume they are mutually exclusive. How does his ability to hit 3-pointers on the offensive end negatively impact his rebounding and defense on the other end?

I never thought they are mutually exclusive. I am talking about the observation. And it's pretty apparent that a PF can hit 3 pointers and rebound. Love is a prime example of that.

Well then you may remember a guy named Bill Laimbeer who could hit 3-pointers and was a great rebounder and a total thug when it came to protecting the paint on the other end. I'm not saying Meyers is the next Laimbeer, just pointing out hitting 3-pointers on offense does not automatically preclude doing the things you value on the other end.

if Leonard could be Lambeer, even similar, I would be ecstatic!!!! You would hear zero negativity on my end if this was the case.

I think you have made up your mind and aren't really seeing the improvement. Yes, it's been slow (which was expected when he was drafted), but he has made progress. Rebounding was the one area he actually improved from his first year to his second. His TRB% went from an unimpressive (but not Bargnani bad) 12.3% as a rookie to a respectable 16.8% last year (second highest on the team). I haven't seen too many of the preseason games, but the two I watched (one of the Utah games and the Lakers game), Meyers looked better on the boards and on defense. He was actively boxing out and going after rebounds and had a couple solid blocks where he was in the right place at the right time and did the right thing.

I watched those games and I didn't see this. I haven't made up my mind. I don't want to make up my mind! I wish Leonard would make me eat my words and I would be the first to publicly admit I am wrong. I am a Blazer fan and only want each of the players on this squad be the best. I am not Roytoy or mixum that wants to call out in bias. I am just unhappy with his progression.

I guess the thing that really pisses me off the most is what he does on his time off. He has publicly mentioned he worked on his 3 point shooting last summer. I wish those words were "I have been working on defensive positioning and rebounding" instead. The offensive part of his game can be worked out secondly. That specialist offense should be last on the list on his development.

I'm not saying we should, or shouldn't, pick up his option, just that there has been improvement. It's been slow, but it is there. Is it enough to pick up his option? I don't know. Glad it's not my call. He showed promise on offense his rookie year, but regressed significantly in that area his second season. In preseason (usual disclaimer), he seems to have his offensive touch back and more importantly, his confidence, and is rebounding at a rate comparable to his second season and seems to be playing better defense (from what I've seen). If he could just put all three aspects together and continue to improve, he'd be worth the $3 million investment. I'll leave that decision to the coaches that work with him on a daily basis and the GM who has a plan for managing cap space moving forward. It's not an easy call.

BNM

I'm just frustrated bro. I hope Leonard proves me wrong. We will be a better team if that's the case. That's all I want.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Why do you assume they are mutually exclusive. How does his ability to hit 3-pointers on the offensive end negatively impact his rebounding and defense on the other end?

Bingo. You mention Laimbeer (who actually led the entire league in rebounding at least once, and pioneered the whole pick and pop big man), but there's also Rasheed, who, while not a huge rebounder, was a great defender even when he was shooting threes, and Kevin Love, who has also (I believe) led the league in rebounding while shooting threes (and being crappy on D, it must be admitted). Bosh and Aldridge are the closest to being good at all three these days.

I've been opposed to Leonard since before we drafted him, but I have to admit he's improved at both ends, although more on offense than defense. He's certainly trying, even though he'll obviously never be a great defender. But Channing Frye is a good thing to aim for: Channing has had awesome +/- scores in the past couple of seasons. I'm not excited about Leonard, but I'm not depressed, as I am with Robinson, who doesn't seem to have improved his court sense at all.

 

[magnifier661]

Bingo. You mention Laimbeer (who actually led the entire league in rebounding at least once, and pioneered the whole pick and pop big man), but there's also Rasheed, who, while not a huge rebounder, was a great defender even when he was shooting threes, and Kevin Love, who has also (I believe) led the league in rebounding while shooting threes (and being crappy on D, it must be admitted). Bosh and Aldridge are the closest to being good at all three these days.

I've been opposed to Leonard since before we drafted him, but I have to admit he's improved at both ends, although more on offense than defense. He's certainly trying, even though he'll obviously never be a great defender. But Channing Frye is a good thing to aim for: Channing has had awesome +/- scores in the past couple of seasons. I'm not excited about Leonard, but I'm not depressed, as I am with Robinson, who doesn't seem to have improved his court sense at all.

At 3 mil a year, a Channing frye type is fine. I just see some team, hopefully not the Blazers, that would fork out 5-8 mil for just the upside. He's a 7 footer, so they are hard to come by.

 

[Schilly]

Fantasy expectations much?

 

[Boob-No-More]

He has publicly mentioned he worked on his 3 point shooting last summer. I wish those words were "I have been working on defensive positioning and rebounding" instead.

He did. Here's a link to that interview.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/7/9...d-discusses-new-teammates-depth-chart-defense

He talks about improving his defense multiple times before he mentions extending his range out to the 3-point line. That came up near the end of the interview and the interview seized it and ran with it. Here's just one of his quotes about improving his defense:

"Not only that, my defense continues to improve, worked a lot on staying straight up. Defending the paint, continue to do that."

He also talks about improving his low post game and finishing in hte paint with both hands, BEFORE he mentions the 3-pointer:

What are you working on on offense?

"Continue to learn to score around the rim, different post moves. Both with finesse and with power."

And then, he mentions the 3-pointer for the first time:

"Every now and then, stepping out to the three-point line."

That's the quote that started all the bashing about Leonard spending all his time working on the 3-pointer and not focused on defense and rebounding. Of course, the media ran with that and it's all we've heard about since. This summer he spent a couple weeks in Michigan working out with Kaman. I doubt if the Caveman, who hasn't made a single 3-pointer in his entire 11-year NBA career was helping Meyers improve his 3-point shooting.

The perception is Meyers spends all his time working on his 3-point shot and neglects the other areas of his game that need improving. The reality is different.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

He did. Here's a link to that interview.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/7/9...d-discusses-new-teammates-depth-chart-defense

He talks about improving his defense multiple times before he mentions extending his range out to the 3-point line. That came up near the end of the interview and the interview seized it and ran with it. Here's just one of his quotes about improving his defense:

"Not only that, my defense continues to improve, worked a lot on staying straight up. Defending the paint, continue to do that."

He also talks about improving his low post game and finishing in hte paint with both hands, BEFORE he mentions the 3-pointer:

What are you working on on offense?

"Continue to learn to score around the rim, different post moves. Both with finesse and with power."

And then, he mentions the 3-pointer for the first time:

"Every now and then, stepping out to the three-point line."

That's the quote that started all the bashing about Leonard spending all his time working on the 3-pointer and not focused on defense and rebounding. Of course, the media ran with that and it's all we've heard about since. This summer he spent a couple weeks in Michigan working out with Kaman. I doubt if the Caveman, who hasn't made a single 3-pointer in his entire 11-year NBA career was helping Meyers improve his 3-point shooting.

The perception is Meyers spends all his time working on his 3-point shot and neglects the other areas of his game that need improving. The reality is different.

BNM

If that's what he said, then I stand corrected. When I start seeing him more active defensively is when I will believe and support. Deal?

 

[BBert]

First, re centers shooting threes: I'd say Meyers is a power forward not a center. Roy Hibbert he isn't. So there's that.

Second, re centers shooting threes: I can't believe no one mentioned Sabonis was a pretty good three point shooter back in the day. But what I loved most about him was his passing. Meyers seems to be a pretty good passer too, though he'll ever be as amazing as Sabas at it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He did. Here's a link to that interview.

Again with the facts. When will you learn? It's about belief, not truth.

The perception is Meyers spends all his time working on his 3-point shot and neglects the other areas of his game that need improving. The reality is different.

Which reality? Not the one that mags creates for himself.

I'm pretty sure that Leonard wasn't working on his 3-point shot when he was working out with Kaman. I'm pretty sure he was getting pummeled repeatedly in the low post.

 

[magnifier661]

Again with the facts. When will you learn? It's about belief, not truth.



Which reality? Not the one that mags creates for himself.

I'm pretty sure that Leonard wasn't working on his 3-point shot when he was working out with Kaman. I'm pretty sure he was getting pummeled repeatedly in the low post.

Hey asshole! I said "I stand corrected!"

 

[ripcityboy]

Retain CJ, drop TR and Leonard, Maxwell ' s Silver Hammer bang!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

If we let Robinson walk, I'm pretty sure we'll rue the day.... and no, don't FIFY.

 

[Schilly]

Let them walk in favor of....

 

[riverman]

Let them walk in favor of....

let them sweat and play for a contract..I think if they were hot to keep these guys they would have extended them already ..they didn't hesitate with Dame

 

[magnifier661]

let them sweat and play for a contract..I think if they were hot to keep these guys they would have extended them already ..they didn't hesitate with Dame

Plus they still hold their bird rights to boot

 

[PDXFonz]

There seems to be enough interest and differing opinions on this subject to take it a step further.

Who would you guys pick to replace the players we let walk?

We have our 1st round draft pick which we can assume will be somewhere between 20-30. Here is a mock draft for the 2015 draft.

If you are not replacing out of the draft here is a list of the players and their 2014-2015 salary.
Robinson: $4,660,482
Leonard: $3,075,879
McCollum: $3,219,579

2015 Free Agents/Restriction/Position/2014-2015 Salary:
Elton Brand/UR/PF/$2,000,000
Brandon Bass/UR/PF/$6,900,000
Gerald Henderson/UR/SG/$6,000,000
Gary Neal/UR/SG/$3,250,000
Aaron Brooks/UR/PG/$915,243
Luke Babbitt/UR/SF/$981,084
Arron Afflolo/UR(P)/SG/$7,500,000
Will Bynum/UR/PG/$2,915,908
Leandro Barbosa/UR/SG/$915,243
Draymond Green/R/SF/$915,243
Jason Terry/UR/SG/$5,850,313
Rodney Stuckey/UR/PG/$915,243
Glen Davis/UR/C/$915,243
Xavier Henry/UR/SF/$1,082,000
Wesley Johnson/UR/SF/$915,243
Norris Cole/R/PG/$2,038,206
Danny Granger/UR(P)/SF/$2,077,000
Nick Collison/UR/PF/$2,242,003
Willie Green/UR/SG/$1,448,490
Jason Richardson/UR/SG/$6,601,125
Gerald Green/UR/SG/$3,500,000
Austin Daye/UR/SF/$1,063,384
Marco Belinelli/UR/SG/$2,873,750
Danny Green/UR/SG/$4,025,000
Tyler Hansbrough/UR/PF/$3,326,235
Amir Johnson/UR/PF/$7,000,000
Louis Williams/UR/SG/$5,450,000
Jeremy Evans/UR/SG/$1,794,871
Drew Gooden/UR/PF/$915,243

The last option would be letting any of the players go to open salary room to sign another big name, and retain some one else such as Lopez/Wes.

I personally say keep all 3 of them unless you bring in a 3rd all star. I think you need to keep C.J at all costs, Meyers and T-Rob are both worth keeping around but expendable.
I think that it is in the leagues best interest that Kobe plays as many games as possible, and takes as many shots as possible. The Lakers have some decent younger talent that could end up going under the radar of Randle/Kobe. I'd take a swing with Xavier Henry, and Wesley Johnson has some potential as well.

 

[MARIS61]

If that's what he said, then I stand corrected. When I start seeing him more active defensively is when I will believe and support. Deal?

Defending in the paint is more about editing/limiting your actions than it is about "being" active. It's about getting back first, holding your ground, the right piece of ground, and getting the "active" attacker to foul or fumble.

 

[MARIS61]

I'd let TRob walk and go for:

Marco Belinelli/UR/SG/$2,873,750

 

[PDXFonz]

I'd let TRob walk and go for:

Marco Belinelli/UR/SG/$2,873,750

It might actually be easy to get some of the older spurs players if the core doesn't re sign with SA.

Draymond Green would be solid but I don't know how the GSW value him.

 

[riverman]

I lean towards the idea that this roster will stand pat until the offseason. Come playoff time it will be an easier decision.

 

[magnifier661]

I lean towards the idea that this roster will stand pat until the offseason. Come playoff time it will be an easier decision.

I think that's Olshey's decision too, but he still needs to make a decision on who to retain now. He may not retain any of them, but they could still stay Blazers this summer.

 

[Hobbesarable]

I think that's Olshey's decision too, but he still needs to make a decision on who to retain now. He may not retain any of them, but they could still stay Blazers this summer.

Yeah, planning ahead for all of the possible contingencies is a smart thing to do.

 

[Sinobas]

1000% agree

So you not only agree, you agree, agree, agree, agree, agree,agree, agree, agree, agree.

 

[BigGameDamian]

in a couple years Meryers Lenard will be highly compared to Reaf LeFrentz.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

in a couple years Meryers Lenard will be highly compared to Reaf LeFrentz.

He'll be a $13M expiring contract that is being paid 80% by an insurance company?

 

[riverman]

I'm really hoping CJ blossoms into a bonafide combo guard and finds consistency with his offense. You can tell he's really trying to play defense at the NBA level. I think Meyers will be a two way player after another year around Rolo, Kaman, LA and Freeland. I think TRob will either get this offense or be better off with a team like the Grizzlies or Pistons. Might be a coaching mismatch for his talents. Freeland to me is the perfect role player for what he brings like Kurt Thomas, Scola or Nick Collison. Solid bench players not really looking to score first. I'm hoping Barton has a breakout year for us. His motor is like Iverson's used to be. If I'm Victor Claver I want to play for Pop in SA..warmer climates seem to suit the Spaniards.

 

[Schilly]

I think you guys clamoring to not pick up the options are misinformed. If we decline their options we do not have bird rights. We can resign them and go over the cap but the salary cannot exceed what the option would have been.

From Larry Coon...

However, if the team declines either option and the player becomes a free agent, the team cannot re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the rookie salary scale and give the player more money. This applies to all types of signing, including the Bird exception, the Mid-Level exception, and cap room.

 

[riverman]

I think you guys clamoring to not pick up the options are misinformed. If we decline their options we do not have bird rights. We can resign them and go over the cap but the salary cannot exceed what the option would have been.

From Larry Coon...

However, if the team declines either option and the player becomes a free agent, the team cannot re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the rookie salary scale and give the player more money. This applies to all types of signing, including the Bird exception, the Mid-Level exception, and cap room.

Schilly, do you think under those circumstances that we will extend them this late into the deadline? Great post by the way.

 

[Schilly]

I have no clue what Neil is going to do. To me keeping those 3 makes a lot of sense. I don't like the route of going into free agency with only Batum and Lillard under contract. This is not a good free agency summer and most PO players will wait till the following summer when the cap is expected to make a big jump.

 

[magnifier661]

I think you guys clamoring to not pick up the options are misinformed. If we decline their options we do not have bird rights. We can resign them and go over the cap but the salary cannot exceed what the option would have been.

From Larry Coon...

However, if the team declines either option and the player becomes a free agent, the team cannot re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the rookie salary scale and give the player more money. This applies to all types of signing, including the Bird exception, the Mid-Level exception, and cap room.

I seem to remember Olshey explaining that even if they aren't picked up, we would still have their bird rights. I would like the quote on "Coon" that say otherwise. I don't know for certain, but it just seems Olshey would know better than us.