Deja Vu: NBA Draft Day Comparison (Also hello all :D )

[Rathi]

Well I have been reading these boards for a while and wanted to start to share my thoughts and enthusiasm. I'm very psyched with the recent moves by the Nets, this team certainly needed a shot in the arm. What I wanted to discuss is something that has been on my mind since draft night: "didn't all this happen before?"

NBA Draft 2001, Nets have the 7th and 35th overall picks. Griffin who was expected to go as high as 1 at one point falls to the nets. Strong freshman but a total project with a ton of potential, although already getting in trouble. What happens next in my mind not only affected the nets future but also defined the beggining of the Rod Thorn Era: Professionalism and Efficiency over raw talent and character issues. We trade the pick for houston's 3 first round picks: 13,18,23. I remember a lot of "ugh!" on the nets forums when that happened...but in hindsight I doubt ANYONE is complaining. The 2001 draft turned out to be a very "potential" oriented draft with most of the potential failing. The true stars were all over the draft even going into the 2nd round.

The nets picked Jefferson at 13, a very athletic kid who was young and very athletic although not a great shooter as of yet. At 18 we picked Jason Collins, a twin from stanford with a classic center size and defensively focus. At 23 we reached and picked brandon armstrong, which led to the many "WHO!?!" comments that followed. Armstrong was a pure shooter SG from a small school (pepperdine jr.) that Rod fell in love with. Jefferson became an allstar calibre performer at the 3 for us, collins became our key Center during our many runs at the NBA title, and well armstrong....busted. In the second round we selected Brian Scalabrine at 35 who became a serviceable backup most known as veal and an extreme hard worker that never gave up.

This year another player dropped to the nets at #10, Brook Lopez. Hard nosed player, a twin from stanford, developing his 1 on 1 defensive skills with a solid interior game and NBA ready body. Hmm....sounds....familiar....maybe...collins? LOL...yeah only difference is collins was more defensive (like drafting Robin instead). Good pick IMO.
At #21 we seemed to reach to pick up a shooting big. With players like CDR and Darrel Arthur dropping I don't think almost anyone expected Ryan Anderson...esp. after getting Yi. Anderson reminds me of 3 players: 1) Size and skill like Van Horn (#2 pick in earlier draft), Scalabrine as a big shooter, and Armstrong as a reach. Hopefully he will not share fate as players like armstrong and wright who we reached for when better players available.
At #40 we get possibly the steal of the draft. CDR an unorthodox but highly accomplished player. Athletic (but not insanely), good shooter but not great and not immense range. Needs bulk to play SF. Reminds me of RJ a bit although RJ didn't drop like a stone.

Also another obvious comparison is our wheeling and dealing this mid season and on draft day as we did back in 1997. I'd say our team was pretty deplorable back in 1997. Then we did:
1) February 17: Nets trade Shawn Bradley, Robert Pack, Ed O’Bannon and Khalid Reeves to Dallas for Jim Jackson, Chris Gatling, Sam Cassell, Eric Montross and George McCloud.
2) June 27: Nets trade Eric Montross, Jim Jackson and the rights to 1997 draft picks Tim Thomas and Anthony Parker to Philadelphia for the rights to 1997 draft pick Keith Van Horn, Michael Cage, Lucious Harris and Don MacLean.

Interestingly our biggest acquisition in the first trade was cassel who became a very good pg for us for some time. That's similar to the JKidd trade that got us Devin Harris as a main piece. The second trade was also done on draft day (or night before I believe). Course at the time the ceiling on KVH was a bit higher than what it turned out to be. Harris was also a very useful backup for years. Also Obannon was a nightmare, and montross...idk maybe I'm nuts but lopez reminds me a bit of montross (more like I'm afraid of him turning into montross).

The bad news is 1997 made us better but we would collapse later with marbury and all, and only get back with kidd later. Perhaps all these moves get us back to the top or the talent doesn't work out and we collapse till another savior (lebron?) comes in. Personally I'm optimistic and expect these moved to help us out....because what we didn't have in 1997 was Rod Thorn who lets be honest is a magic worker usually.

My only pessimism is with the upcoming FA period and trade possibilities. Under thorn we have generally done a poor job targeting players in FA that end up helping us a lot. Hopefully at the very least this should be a fun year to watch the team and see what the young guns can do and establish a name for ourselves going into 2010.

 

[ZAE]

Welcom to SportsTwo, Rathi! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I agree with everything you said here.

 

[pegs]

First, Welcome to S2, Rathi! If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, too*.

Now that that's out of the way, let me start with the Stanford Twin. At first, Collins started one "eh" but improved to average 14 points and 8 rebounds. Lopez came in, with a respectable 12 and 6, and improved to 19 and 9, with more minutes and touches. Not sure exactly what that means, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

Anyways, I see what you're saying. We're going through one of Rod's rebuilding efforts, along with Kiki - both of which have come with smart decisions and pretty quick results. I wouldn't be surprised to see more trades, possibly involving a player we just received.

But I see nothing wrong with the players we have...yet. We've had quite a few good young players, and have recently acquired even more. I feel good right now with the players we have, and with some of the top rebuilders in the league in our front office.

 

[Rathi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 28 2008, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First, Welcome to S2, Rathi! If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, too*.

Now that that's out of the way, let me start with the Stanford Twin. At first, Collins started one "eh" but improved to average 14 points and 8 rebounds. Lopez came in, with a respectable 12 and 6, and improved to 19 and 9, with more minutes and touches. Not sure exactly what that means, but just thought I'd throw that out there.</div>

Thanks for the info wasn't aware of the stats. However, I think what's important to note is simply will lopez transfer over to the NBA well or not. I was listening to the Rod Thorn Interview on WFAN and Mike francesca made a point that in years past the best C would not drop below 2 in the draft, and there is currently a fascination with athleticism at all positions. What worries me is this recent trend merely a fad that will die out like drafting everyone in the lottery out of high school, or has the pace of the game changed to where traditional bangers are of less use. Even if a traditional C is still of primary use did the fact Lopez fall to 10 demonstrate that he may not be a very good C? I'm simply going to see Lopez as a SERVICEABLE center and nothing more, and I believe if that is all we expect we will be satisfied. This is another reason the Yi trade was very helpful, as it will help displace some of the expectations on Lopez to Yi. I like Yi a lot more than Lopez....or well any of our picks actually. Lopez's "highlight videos" are the least impressing of our draftees or Yi. Even taking into consideration his position I am not that impressed.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rathi @ Jun 28 2008, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 28 2008, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First, Welcome to S2, Rathi! If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, too*.

Now that that's out of the way, let me start with the Stanford Twin. At first, Collins started one "eh" but improved to average 14 points and 8 rebounds. Lopez came in, with a respectable 12 and 6, and improved to 19 and 9, with more minutes and touches. Not sure exactly what that means, but just thought I'd throw that out there.</div>

Thanks for the info wasn't aware of the stats. However, I think what's important to note is simply will lopez transfer over to the NBA well or not. I was listening to the Rod Thorn Interview on WFAN and Mike francesca made a point that in years past the best C would not drop below 2 in the draft, and there is currently a fascination with athleticism at all positions. What worries me is this recent trend merely a fad that will die out like drafting everyone in the lottery out of high school, or has the pace of the game changed to where traditional bangers are of less use. Even if a traditional C is still of primary use did the fact Lopez fall to 10 demonstrate that he may not be a very good C? I'm simply going to see Lopez as a SERVICEABLE center and nothing more, and I believe if that is all we expect we will be satisfied. This is another reason the Yi trade was very helpful, as it will help displace some of the expectations on Lopez to Yi. I like Yi a lot more than Lopez....or well any of our picks actually. Lopez's "highlight videos" are the least impressing of our draftees or Yi. Even taking into consideration his position I am not that impressed.

</div>

Agreed, I'm not impressed with Lopez at the least. With those numbers Lopez put up, he also had a 46% field goal percentage...extremely low for a big man in college. I'm not sure he'll be anything more than "serviceable", either - nothing more than a role player.

I was pretty disappointed when we picked him, too, and was pulling for us picking up Bayless. I see him as having the potential to be a star. But, I guess Brook's better than nothing.

 

[Rathi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 28 2008, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was pretty disappointed when we picked him, too, and was pulling for us picking up Bayless. I see him as having the potential to be a star. But, I guess Brook's better than nothing.</div>

The only issue with bayless was that despite the fact I agree he has more talent and a higher ceiling we do have harris. We already saw what having a log jam of talent in the backcourt gets you, as opposed to mixing between the backcourt and frontcourt. I don't fault the nets, not taking lopez had a greater chance to nip us in the butt later in terms of lack of size upfront. Personally I felt the only player in the draft with a chance to make an enormous change to the nets would be Beasley and we were never going to get him.

 

[danxcr]

i have no problem with us taking lopez over bayless... what were we goin to do with bayless and harris in our back court? what if we can run cuz the other team is scoring?!?! what then... lopez was the best big man in the draft and for him to drop at 10... he was a steal

i dont know much bout ryan anderson nor do i understand why we drafted him with Yi coming on board :/

 

[Boomdog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Jun 28 2008, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i have no problem with us taking lopez over bayless... what were we goin to do with bayless and harris in our back court? what if we can run cuz the other team is scoring?!?! what then... lopez was the best big man in the draft and for him to drop at 10... he was a steal

i dont know much bout ryan anderson nor do i understand why we drafted him with Yi coming on board :/</div>

I'm thinking that Anderson was viewed as the best shooter of the lot when pick number 21 came around. He's real tall like Yi which makes him a difficult matchup. I don't think he was drafted in order to be a starter, but a guy who can step in at the 4 or hell even the 3 at times and start draining shots. I may be looking into this a little too much but it seems to me they want to make sure they have some big time shooters in place for some Lebron dishes. Plus it makes Boki's inconsistancy hopefully expendable

 

[Dumpy]

People are just disaapointed because they don't know anything about Ryan Anderson, partly because Cal hasn't had much success lately. He is a tremendous shooting big man. His shooting percentage, especially from long range, is phenominal. He also was one of the top rebounders in the Pac-10, I believe. Based on some advanced metrics, some guest writers at DX rated him one of the top prospects (offensively) among PFs in the draft. The KVH comparisons might not be too far off.

I see Ryan Anderson as potentially filling Boki's role, if/when he is not resigned. The Nets need shooters everywhere. The big question is whether he can play defense and run the floor with DH. I don't know . . . While the Nets are obviously getting younger and rebuilding, I think there is a method behind this madness, and in the end they want players who can play D. I love RJ, but he was one of the problems there, and now there are hints that he fought with teh team over it . . . after the deal, Mark Jackson called Yi an "upgrade" during the draft broadcast. Anyway, if Ryan Anderson's defense can be at least as good as Boki's--not saying much--then he'll play, and he can be pretty productive as a ten-minute a night guy off the bench.

Everyone's so quick to badmouth him--I saw the posts from those who want to mentally consider him the #40 pick and CDR the #21--but that is just ridiculous. Just look at his stats and his scouting reports. The guy can play, and the Nets rated him above all the big men that started to go around the 15th pick, players like Speights, Hibbert, etc.

 

[SportsTicker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 28 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>People are just disaapointed because they don't know anything about Ryan Anderson, partly because Cal hasn't had much success lately. He is a tremendous shooting big man. His shooting percentage, especially from long range, is phenominal. He also was one of the top rebounders in the Pac-10, I believe. Based on some advanced metrics, some guest writers at DX rated him one of the top prospects (offensively) among PFs in the draft. The KVH comparisons might not be too far off.

I see Ryan Anderson as potentially filling Boki's role, if/when he is not resigned. The Nets need shooters everywhere. The big question is whether he can play defense and run the floor with DH. I don't know . . . While the Nets are obviously getting younger and rebuilding, I think there is a method behind this madness, and in the end they want players who can play D. I love RJ, but he was one of the problems there, and now there are hints that he fought with teh team over it . . . after the deal, Mark Jackson called Yi an "upgrade" during the draft broadcast. Anyway, if Ryan Anderson's defense can be at least as good as Boki's--not saying much--then he'll play, and he can be pretty productive as a ten-minute a night guy off the bench.

Everyone's so quick to badmouth him--I saw the posts from those who want to mentally consider him the #40 pick and CDR the #21--but that is just ridiculous. Just look at his stats and his scouting reports. The guy can play, and the Nets rated him above all the big men that started to go around the 15th pick, players like Speights, Hibbert, etc.</div>

The Nets were high on him early. Remember, Kiki went to the PAC-10 tournament. The big guy didnt always go to the tournaments. There was a reason. He was supposed to come to NJ but he got flight delayed and there was no time to arrange another workout in NJ. So the entire Nets brain trust went to Philly to see him--Rod, Kiki, Frank, Gregg Polinsky, etc.--to see him workout. That should have been a big hint they were seriously considering him. As it turned out, they also watched a Wizards workout so they could get another look. Iannazzone said the choice at 21 was going to come down to Hickson and Anderson. Hickson was gone at 19. Interesting choice.

I keep watching the LONG highlight reel on his website and am very impressed with his range and his ability to get his shot off while under pressure. He said today the Nets called him to say hello and tell him he needs to improve his quickness (?) and his defense. Nobody told him to work on his shot. It is somewhat of a risky pick, considering who was on the board, but he just turned 20 last month and seems like he wants it bad. I liked the fact that after he was picked, after the inital round of hugs and congratulations, he walked outside alone and screamed. Cant imagine KVH doing that.

 

[Dumpy]

thanks for the heads-up . . . I'll look for the video.

and in a draft where the most freshmen EVER were selected, how many did the Nets take? How many players did they take that are considered tall for their position? How many play for big schools in top-rated conferences? How many . . . oh, heck, why go on. Upshot: Rod is still in charge.

 

[danxcr]

lol so tru dumpy... all from good programs... well memphis just lately... all polished players... and none of these guys are suppose to be headaches

rod always drafts with personalities examined

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 28 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>thanks for the heads-up . . . I'll look for the video.

and in a draft where the most freshmen EVER were selected, how many did the Nets take? How many players did they take that are considered tall for their position? How many play for big schools in top-rated conferences? How many . . . oh, heck, why go on. Upshot: Rod is still in charge.</div>

Ah, so THAT is why we skipped on Bayless.