Politics Democrats Don't build dams!

[Denny Crane]

http://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...of-gallons-in-uncollected-rainwater/406802167

Verify: Has California lost billions of gallons in uncollected rainwater?

Despite retaining drought measures, the wet season has proved to be a boon for Northern California.

But is the state still missing out on storing rainwater?

State Sen. Ted Gaines, R-El Dorado Hills, thinks so:



The reservoir

The proposed Sites Reservoir project goes back decades.

It would divert water from the Sacramento River through canals and into storage. The proposed location is 10 miles west of Maxwell in Antelope Valley.

But, Ron Stork, senior policy advocate at Sacramento advocacy group Friends of the River, said it is still an idea.

“The dams don’t exist, the pumps to put the water in the reservoir don’t exist, some of the canals exist, but one canal doesn’t,” Stork said.

Moreover, the state’s Water Commission would still have to approve construction funding for the project.

“That could take some years, even if all went well for the project.” Stork pointed out.

The water

Betsey Hodges, a spokeswoman with Gaines’ office, said the reservoir is designed to hold a maximum of almost 600 billion gallons of water.

“Even allowing that the reservoir would not be filled to capacity right now to allow for continuing precipitation, Sites being filled to half of 1 percent would still equal ‘billions’ of gallons of water that are not being captured.” she said.

The state’s Department of Water Resources estimates that, as of Feb. 2, sites could have stored more than 251 billion gallons of water. Their estimate factors in high river flows, but notes that the reservoir would not fill quickly during a storm.

Todd Manley, Director of Government Relations at the Northern California Water Association, said Gaines’ tweet is correct.

“Currently, there are billions of gallons flowing through the Sacramento River system.” Manley said.

Moreover, Jim Watson, General Manager at the Sites Project Authority, said even in a dry year, the water diversion into storage could be huge because of isolated storm events that produce peak flows.

 

[MarAzul]

Last winter's Coyote creek flood was ridiculous planning for the victims and for the waste of the water. There are at least three more damn site of large storage capabilities on Coyote creek, but the dams were never built. Two were, more than 40 years ago, three never built. One may have prevented this flood that occurred when the up stream reservoirs fill to capacity. One more would have save the day. But the planners compounded the error by allowing building the flood plain that has to be allowed to fill when the dams are full. What is this sort of management? It boggles my mind!

Why is it the Democrats can just overwhelm and wear down the logical minds into silence? And then no one remembers.

I think the population of California is nearing triple the population when the last reservoirs were built.

 

[MARIS61]

California has always had enough water to support all of the legal citizens living there.

 

[julius]

California has always had enough water to support all of the legal citizens living there.

I knew it was all those damn illegals that built those cities in areas where there weren't enough water to support a city!

 

[Denny Crane]

I knew it was all those damn illegals that built those cities in areas where there weren't enough water to support a city!

There's some truth to there being a limited amount of water for a population that is growing (by whatever means).

 

[julius]

There's some truth to there being a limited amount of water for a population that is growing (by whatever means).

Yes there is, but it's not the "illegals" that caused the issue.

 

[MarAzul]

There's some truth to there being a limited amount of water for a population that is growing (by whatever means).

Well that larger population can sure lay a hell of lot more irrigation pipe today.

 

[MarAzul]

Yes there is, but it's not the "illegals" that caused the issue.

Where do you get your insight here? I think about 25% of the city I am in right now is illegal!

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes there is, but it's not the "illegals" that caused the issue.

I think the question MARIS suggests is that if you have to ration, who should get the water: legal residents or "illegal" ones or both.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't withhold water at all, or discriminate against people based upon their nationality.

 

[julius]

Where do you get your insight here? I think about 25% of the city I am in right now is illegal!

Because California (and Nevada, and Arizona) are all areas that have areas that are deserts that they have converted to cities.

Cities need water. So they pipe in water from other areas that have a (slight) surplus of water.

 

[MarAzul]

Cities need water.

Cities need water commiserate with their population.
Farms need water commiserate to they size, crop, and ability to get it to the crop.
Today that means water system operators, or farm hands.

 

[riverman]

As a SoCal resident I obviously disagree, but honestly, this state is responsible for a huge amount of the agriculture and produce that this country uses. 2/3 of the fruit and nuts that the US consumes comes from California. This requires water, acreage and sun. California can supply the acreage and sun. It only seems reasonable that the rest of the country will be willing to provide water for all this produce that it consumes. It's not like California is some kind of a financial drag on the country either, it is the largest tax payer in the country by more than a 100 billion per year over the 2nd largest tax state (Texas) and for every federal tax dollar paid by a California resident - less than a dollar comes back (something you can not say for Oregon which receives more federal support than the taxes it provides) - so, spare me the "California is bad" nonsense because it is a liberal state.

We pay for what we receive - well more than many others. I assure you that if California received as much as it gives - it's residents will come out ahead, not the other way around.

California needs desalination plants for agriculture....places like Israel rely on them for watering crops...problem is Califonians don't want to see desalination plants from their beach houses.....draining Mammoth Lake and using an aquaduct to move it to LA is not an efficient way to water the state...most of it evaporates in the valleys before it gets used.

 

[riverman]

I think about 25% of the city I am in right now is illegal!

#fakethought...this is how fake news came to being I'm guessing

 

[andalusian]

California needs desalination plants for agriculture....places like Israel rely on them for watering crops...problem is Califonians don't want to see desalination plants from their beach houses.....draining Mammoth Lake and using an aquaduct to move it to LA is not an efficient way to water the state...most of it evaporates in the valleys before it gets used.

I do not believe you need desalination plants for agriculture, just wastewater recycling plants - which are much cheaper than desalination plants. Desalination plants can be used to create drinking water - where recycled wastewater is usually used for agriculture.

Carlsbad (near where I live) has the largest desalination plant in the country - and I believe it costs about $1K more per acre-foot than reservoir water. Desalination is not cheap.

 

[riverman]

I do not believe you need desalination plants for agriculture, just wastewater recycling plants - which are much cheaper than desalination plants. Desalination plants can be used to create drinking water - where recycled wastewater is usually used for agriculture.

They work for agriculture as well..and are currently used for it...I like your idea about recycling plants as well....another agricultural breakthrough recently has been agricultural towers that grow crops using very little land, hence less evaporation...saw some in the Arizona desert that were pretty cool.

 

[riverman]

I believe it costs about $1K more per acre-foot than reservoir water.

I did not know this but isn't the supply much more sustainable from the ocean? Also wouldn't the cost of desalination be cheaper if there were many more plants doing it?

 

[andalusian]

I did not know this but isn't the supply much more sustainable from the ocean? Also wouldn't the cost of desalination be cheaper if there were many more plants doing it?

I do not know. I know what it costs from the desalination plant in Carlsbad. I am not certain why having more plants would make the cost cheaper - I honestly doubt it will, but I am certainly not an expert on this. I guess I can ask my wife if she can explain it to me in layman terms when she is back from her trip.

 

[MarAzul]

just wastewater recycling plants

I see Santa Barbara is doing this. The parks there have signs in them, grass irrigated with recycled water, Don Not Drink the water.

 

[Denny Crane]

Because California (and Nevada, and Arizona) are all areas that have areas that are deserts that they have converted to cities.

Cities need water. So they pipe in water from other areas that have a (slight) surplus of water.

There's a bit more to it than this. The Hoover Dam was built to supply water to Vegas and power to Vegas and LA. It's actual use has diverged from the plan. Lake Mead is down 130 feet since 2000.

The white rock used to be underwater:

 

[Denny Crane]

I do not know. I know what it costs from the desalination plant in Carlsbad. I am not certain why having more plants would make the cost cheaper - I honestly doubt it will, but I am certainly not an expert on this. I guess I can ask my wife if she can explain it to me in layman terms when she is back from her trip.

Back in the '70s, an idea was floated where they'd break off a big chunk of ice from the north or south pole and use barges to tow it to the middle east.

Seems pretty cheap and a win all the way around.

I've heard for years and years that desalination is prohibitively expensive. In a rich state like California, they might have money to burn on it.

 

[andalusian]

Back in the '70s, an idea was floated where they'd break off a big chunk of ice from the north or south pole and use barges to tow it to the middle east.

Seems pretty cheap and a win all the way around.

Maybe global warming is just government bureaucracy working very slowly. The big chunks are finally breaking off.

 

[julius]

There's a bit more to it than this. The Hoover Dam was built to supply water to Vegas and power to Vegas and LA. It's actual use has diverged from the plan. Lake Mead is down 130 feet since 2000.

The white rock used to be underwater:

View attachment 18809

It's a bigger picture, when they dam up creek/rivers, though, that were feeding water to areas that do not have enough water for them to be there in the first place. So like I said, they moved to an area where there isn't sufficient amounts of water in the first place, and created a false water supply.

 

[MarAzul]

#fakethought...this is how fake news came to being I'm guessing

Really.
Well I do not know. I sure do know they are pretty proud of being a Sanctuary County here and 25 % is the local estimate, not mine.
Dang if I can verify what exactly that is a Sanctuary County. There is not official charter for such. But the word is, they will not let this fellow that ran over the little girl this past weekend get deported. How? I do not know. 1.8 time the legal limit drunk, illegal, drag racing on the street, hit 6 year old, in jail on75k bond. But not going to be deported. Where does this fucking logic come from? I do not know. Fakethought? Seems like no thought to me.

 

[MarAzul]

I am certainly not an expert on this.

Me neither. But I do know it is a power burning process. That is why I do not do it on the boat. But I don't need to.

 

[riverman]

the word is, they will not let this fellow that ran over the little girl this past weekend get deported. How? I do not know.

this...the story makes no sense...so I'm guessing it's guesswork just like guessing 25 percent of the Hispanics are illegal..hence..fakenews

 

[Denny Crane]

It's a bigger picture, when they dam up creek/rivers, though, that were feeding water to areas that do not have enough water for them to be there in the first place. So like I said, they moved to an area where there isn't sufficient amounts of water in the first place, and created a false water supply.

Agriculture and irrigation have been around for thousands of years. They've been moving water to areas that don't have enough for like, forever.

 

[julius]

Agriculture and irrigation have been around for thousands of years. They've been moving water to areas that don't have enough for like, forever.

Not on the scale that they have in California, Nevada and Arizona.

There are too many people, legal or not, depending on the limited water supply of California/Arizona/Nevada.

 

[MarAzul]

I'm guessing

Yes you are. And I do not "know" what is or will actually happen. I just see the local reports and pass it on.
But feel free to guess all you like.

 

[riverman]

Agriculture and irrigation have been around for thousands of years. They've been moving water to areas that don't have enough for like, forever.

Thanks to the Romans...and the Mayans

 

[Denny Crane]

Not on the scale that they have in California, Nevada and Arizona.

There are too many people, legal or not, depending on the limited water supply of California/Arizona/Nevada.

California directs billions of gallons of water from the rivers and snow melt into the sea instead of the aquaducts. I don't think that's entirely true.