Politics Dems: If It Boiled Down To These Two, Who Would You Choose?

[MickZagger]

Actually, Jesus said, while hanging on the cross, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."

Now, there's some fodder for ya.

Trump isn’t even a Christian. Can you name a Christian quality about the guy?

He just knew that he could allure to the naive Christian types like you. It worked. Not a bad political strategy.

Trump is more morally corrupt than any of the candidates in the democratic primaries. And it’s not even debatable.

 

[MARIS61]

In my life I don’t think there’s been a president where (in my opinion) a larrrggeeee amount of people would be literally happy if he died. And before all the holier than thou people come out of the woodwork, I have no doubt I am right. So there.

You are correct that the Deep State has raised/brainwashed an unaware army of hateful, soulless sociopaths, easily controlled and obsessed with hurting anyone who disagrees with them.

 

[MARIS61]

We've been through this before, @ABM . You said explicitly and repeatedly you support Trump because you and he both want to force your will on women's bodies. Nothing godly about it. I can't forgive because you both know exactly what you are doing.

Ever notice that you always misquote everyone to make it appear that they are "evil"?

He never said that, of course.

 

[MARIS61]

So, lets try to get this thread back on Track.

Looks like Biden vs Bernie at this point.

I have some strong disagreements with Bernie, but say I “had” to vote for one I think it would be him. I think he’ll make us talk about some things we should talk about as a country and if we can as a culture muscle past some of the very staunch ideologies that he has and the people very opposed to him have we can maybe reframe to an extent what we want out of our government.

I kind of see Biden as sort of basically the vote of least its not Trump.

It's quite possible that they both die of old age before November. Biden's Alzheimer's will certainly be obvious and a media topic by Summer.

 

[crandc]

Biden pluses: Pretty good VP. Respected internationally. He is empathetic. He would work to repair institutions, alliances, and norms of decent behavior shattered by Trump. Would appoint sane qualified people. Listens to others. Strong ties to African-American community. Biden minuses: Long history includes bad decisions. Questionable behavior towards women. Tendency to gaffes and lapses. Well meaning but won't tackle structural inequality, just nibble around the edges. Boring (although that could be a plus, like a person gets out of an abusive relationship wants their next partner to be safe and dull).

Sanders pluses: Probably one I most closely align with after Warren. Realizes problems are structural, not just bad policy. Good relationship with youth and LatinX voters. Not afraid to make big suggestions. Sanders minuses: my way or the highway attitude. Doesn't explain how to get from here to there. Too many of his supporters treat him as cult figure who can't be questioned or disagreed with and we don't need four more years of that.

 

[ABM]

We've been through this before, @ABM . You said explicitly and repeatedly you support Trump because you and he both want to force your will on women's bodies. Nothing godly about it. I can't forgive because you both know exactly what you are doing.

I'm not certain you know about force...

 

[crandc]

I'm not certain you know about force...

I said I opposed China' s forced abortion as much as I opposed forced pregnancy.

But do please mansplain to me what men forcing themselves on women is really like.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Biden pluses: Pretty good VP. Respected internationally. He is empathetic. He would work to repair institutions, alliances, and norms of decent behavior shattered by Trump. Would appoint sane qualified people. Listens to others. Strong ties to African-American community. Biden minuses: Long history includes bad decisions. Questionable behavior towards women. Tendency to gaffes and lapses. Well meaning but won't tackle structural inequality, just nibble around the edges. Boring (although that could be a plus, like a person gets out of an abusive relationship wants their next partner to be safe and dull).

Sanders pluses: Probably one I most closely align with after Warren. Realizes problems are structural, not just bad policy. Good relationship with youth and LatinX voters. Not afraid to make big suggestions. Sanders minuses: my way or the highway attitude. Doesn't explain how to get from here to there. Too many of his supporters treat him as cult figure who can't be questioned or disagreed with and we don't need four more years of that.

This seems mostly how I kind of see the two as well.

 

[Lanny]

Just remember, there was a great king - and in the lineage of Jesus - who was also a an adulterer, a terrible father, a murderer, and even danced in the streets in his underwear. Interestingly, Jesus said he was also a man after his own heart...so obviously he was forgiven...and forgiven greatly.

Many of our Presidents had great shortcomings in their personal lives. I wonder to what degree they were (are) forgiven.

You could add up all of the shortcomings of all of our past Presidents and it wouldn't sum up to 1% of Trump's shortcomings.

 

[Lanny]

I said I opposed China' s forced abortion as much as I opposed forced pregnancy.

But do please mansplain to me what men forcing themselves on women is really like.

Wait, wait please wait 'till I finish popping my popcorn.

 

[ABM]

I said I opposed China' s forced abortion as much as I opposed forced pregnancy.

But do please mansplain to me what men forcing themselves on women is really like.

I watched the movie, Unplanned, based on the poignant story by Abby Johnson (formerly of Planned Parenthood). Wow, what an eye-0pener. Not certain what mansplain means, but this isn't a man vs. women issue. It just isn't.

At any rate, this is my last statement in this thread about Trump, abortion, or the like. I really should know better, when I invoke Trump's name in a thread that, otherwise, has nothing to do with him, I'm asking for trouble...if not the rebuke of those accusing me of derailing a thread. For that, I apologize.

/out

 

[Stevenson]

Polls say otherwise.
Name me another Democratic candidate who excites their voters to the same degree. Name me another candidate who could genuinely poach some Trump voters. (Remember: Bernie beat Hillary in Michigan before Trump did.)

I hear you, but . . .

Presidential elections are decided in the middle, not the edges. I don't see the middle breaking for a socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

If they could turn a genuine war hero like John Kerry into a draft dodger, if we could turn a nice guy like Mitt Romney into a money-grubbing elitist, imagine what they will do to Bernie.

 

[ABM]

I hear you, but . . .

Presidential elections are decided in the middle, not the edges. I don't see the middle breaking for a socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

If they could turn a genuine war hero like John Kerry into a draft dodger, if we could turn a nice guy like Mitt Romney into a money-grubbing elitist, imagine what they will do to Bernie.

St. Bernard will become...

 

[yankeesince59]

I watched the movie, Unplanned, based on the poignant story by Abby Johnson (formerly of Planned Parenthood). Wow, what an eye-0pener. Not certain what mansplain means, but this isn't a man vs. women issue. It just isn't.

At any rate, this is my last statement in this thread about Trump, abortion, or the like. I really should know better, when I invoke Trump's name in a thread that, otherwise, has nothing to do with him, I'm asking for trouble...if not the rebuke of those accusing me of derailing a thread. For that, I apologize.

/out

I couldn't understand why you created a thread asking Dems what they wanted or what their opinion was in the first place.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

this isn't a man vs. women issue. It just isn't.

It may not be for you, but it absolutely is for many, many others.

 

[ABM]

I couldn't understand why you created a thread asking Dems what they wanted or what their opinion was in the first place.

Because, as stated, I feel this place is kind of a microcosm of American Democratic voters. Just gauging to see whom Trump might be up against...and is likely to beat.

 

[ABM]

It may not be for you, but it absolutely is for many, many others.

K, lemme rephrase: IMO, this isn't a man vs. women issue.

 

[yankeesince59]

K, lemme rephrase: IMO, this isn't a man vs. women issue.

...it's not?...I'm sure there are those who would disagree.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

K, lemme rephrase: IMO, this isn't a man vs. women issue.

For you to say that suggests that you don't truly understand why so many women do, in fact, consider it a man vs women issue.

 

[ABM]

...it's not?...I'm sure there are those who would disagree.

There are plenty.....and I mean PLENTY of women who are passionate right-to-life fighters.

We're friends with Victoria...

 

[yankeesince59]

There are plenty.....and I mean PLENTY of women who are passionate right-to-life fighters.

And they are in the minority...no?

 

[ABM]

For you to say that suggests that you don't truly understand why so many women do, in fact, consider it a man vs women issue.

Nonetheless, I'm entitled to my opinion...and I'm sticking to it. See above.

 

[ABM]

And they are in the minority...no?

Where does it say that if you're in the minority...you're wrong? At any rate, it certainly doesn't mean you give up the fight for the things you believe in.

 

[Minstrel]

There are plenty.....and I mean PLENTY of women who are passionate right-to-life fighters.

That's like saying debate on laws against racial prejudice aren't a white vs. minority issue, because there are black people who don't want such laws. An issue is "about" a demographic if it largely or entirely impacts them, regardless of whether you can find individuals within that demographic who have a dissenting view on the issue.

 

[yankeesince59]

Where does it say that if you're in the minority...you're right? .

^^^FIFY


...ever heard of the term "the majority rules"? ...I'm pretty sure it's part of the basis of our very own government.

 

[ABM]

^^^FIFY


...ever heard of the term "the majority rules"? ...I'm pretty sure it's part of the basis of our very own government.

Sure, tell that to William Wallace.

Point is, I'll still fight for the things I believe in. If they become overruled, out-voted, and the like, then so be it. In the meantime, it doesn't mean I'll roll over and immediately acquiesce.

 

[yankeesince59]

Sure, tell that to William Wallace.

Point is, I'll still fight for the things I believe in. If they become overruled, out-voted, and the like, then so be it. In the meantime, it doesn't mean I'll roll over and immediately acquiesce.

I remember Braveheart...but I don't remember Wallace ever getting pregnant.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sure, tell that to William Wallace.

Point is, I'll still fight for the things I believe in. If they become overruled, out-voted, and the like, then so be it. In the meantime, it doesn't mean I'll roll over and immediately acquiesce.

Whether or not you're passionate about your position--or even whether or not you're right--doesn't change the value of properly understanding the perspective of those who stand in opposition. In fact, I would submit that it's nearly impossible to have productive reasonable discussion with those with whom you disagree without being able to understand and even effectively articulate their side of the debate.

 

[Chris Craig]

St. Bernard will become...

View attachment 30078

No need to bring Sly into this

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Can anyone help me understand why the other front-runner is being consistently left out of this conversation? Shouldn't a less angry, less extreme, more "political" version of Bernie be a much more electable candidate than "Angry Bernie" and "Sleepy/Creepy Joe"?