Depressive Thread.

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TripTango

TripTango

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Greg didn't get enough shots, and had 7 turnovers...
Roy, our lynchpin, struggled to get any sort of rhythm going...
Greg and Joel BOTH got into foul trouble...
The Rockets are a terrible team -- we should have beaten them by 40...
We have 81 more opportunities to lose ahead of us...

:ohno:
 
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But everything is really great!

barfo
 
Sloppy game; but very typical for the first of the season.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Nate is turning Greg into Przybilla.
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That's why I think if the blazers ever let him go, it won't be due to his results. It will be due to philosophical differences.

I actually think philosophical differences is why Nate hasn't signed an extension.
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
That's why I think if the blazers ever let him go, it won't be due to his results. It will be due to philosophical differences.

I actually think philosophical differences is why Nate hasn't signed an extension.
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This I agree with.
 
Greg got 11 offensive opportunities: went 1-3, got one assist, had 4 turnovers, and kicked it out the other 3 times (by my count). That's 2 positives, 6 negatives, and 3 neutrals. Certainly didn't show he deserved more touches, however I think he'll see more looks as the season goes on, and he'll handle them better.
 
Roy just looks like he isn't sure what to do with so many offensive weapons out there. He struggled, so he decided it was time to pull the old Roy iso, which is fine, but it shuts down the rest of the offensive movement.
 
First game of the season, they looked out of sync at times and looked winded after that nice run in the 3rd. We're fine. We should have won by 20 going away, but we got sloppy. No biggie. We turned it on when we had to.
 
Tince said:
Greg got 11 offensive opportunities: went 1-3, got one assist, had 4 turnovers, and kicked it out the other 3 times (by my count). That's 2 positives, 6 negatives, and 3 neutrals. Certainly didn't show he deserved more touches, however I think he'll see more looks as the season goes on, and he'll handle them better.
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He got four offensive rebounds, so he created 4 opportunities... and he only got 11 opportunities overall? That is ridiculous to me.

I don't care if it's 11 negatives and 0 positives, he should get more chances than that.

Ed O.
 
Tince said:
Greg got 11 offensive opportunities: went 1-3, got one assist, had 4 turnovers, and kicked it out the other 3 times (by my count). That's 2 positives, 6 negatives, and 3 neutrals. Certainly didn't show he deserved more touches, however I think he'll see more looks as the season goes on, and he'll handle them better.
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Not to nitpick, but Oden was "credited" with 7 TOs. He played well on defense, but on offense it still looks like the game is moving too fast for him.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Not to nitpick, but Oden was "credited" with 7 TOs. He played well on defense, but on offense it still looks like the game is moving too fast for him.
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I didn't count his 2 illegal screens or offensive foul off the ball as scoring opportunities.
 
Ed O said:
He got four offensive rebounds, so he created 4 opportunities... and he only got 11 opportunities overall? That is ridiculous to me.

I don't care if it's 11 negatives and 0 positives, he should get more chances than that.

Ed O.
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I disagree with that 100%. If someone isn't getting it done, you don't give him the ball 25 times. He has yet to prove over a 3-4 game stretch he can score on his own. He'll get TONS of looks off of put-backs and dump passes, and he's a beast when it comes to that.

Also, I didn't count 3 of the 4 offensive rebounds as scoring opportunities because they were away from the basket and he didn't even look at the rim after he got the rebound. I'm unsure how many touches he got, but when he gets the ball at the top of the key to reverse it, I don't count that as a real opportunity for him to score either. I'm sure he got close to 25 touches tonight if you want to count that stuff.
 
Tince said:
I disagree with that 100%. If someone isn't getting it done, you don't give him the ball 25 times. He has yet to prove over a 3-4 game stretch he can score on his own. He'll get TONS of looks off of put-backs and dump passes, and he's a beast when it comes to that.
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He is allegedly a beast in practice. He is one of the best center prospects in the last decade or so.

Is he actually a terrible player? Or is it a matter of him getting experience and a comfort level?

The team winning is the most important thing, but I am willing to have something less than optimal in the short run to do the most good in the long run, and I think that getting Oden that comfort level is worth getting him more than 11 offensive touches a game.

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
He is allegedly a beast in practice. He is one of the best center prospects in the last decade or so.

Is he actually a terrible player? Or is it a matter of him getting experience and a comfort level?

The team winning is the most important thing, but I am willing to have something less than optimal in the short run to do the most good in the long run, and I think that getting Oden that comfort level is worth getting him more than 11 offensive touches a game.

Ed O.
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I certainly don't think he's a terrible player, nor have I said anything close to that.

However, I'm not sure the way you build someones confidence in an area he's below average is by forcing things. Say there are 100ish scoring opportunities a game; 50 of them MUST go to Roy and LMA. That leaves 50 for the other 7 guys in the roation. I'd love to see Greg, Martell, Rudy, and Miller get more chances than they got tonight, but not at the expense of our best two players.

I think we'll look back a month from now and say 11 opportunities was below average for Greg. He'll get more putback, easy dunks, and probably a post move or two more in your average game. Hopefully he does better than 7 turnovers as well, which I expect.
 
Tince said:
I certainly don't think he's a terrible player, nor have I said anything close to that.

However, I'm not sure the way you build someones confidence in an area he's below average is by forcing things. Say there are 100ish scoring opportunities a game; 50 of them MUST go to Roy and LMA. That leaves 50 for the other 7 guys in the roation. I'd love to see Greg, Martell, Rudy, and Miller get more chances than they got tonight, but not at the expense of our best two players.

I think we'll look back a month from now and say 11 opportunities was below average for Greg. He'll get more putback, easy dunks, and probably a post move or two more in your average game. Hopefully he does better than 7 turnovers as well, which I expect.
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I consider Oden to be more important to the future of the franchise than anyone on the roster; if he develops, we've got a good chance at a dynasty, but if he does not then we might never make a Finals. I don't care if Martell, Rudy or Miller get any additional touches, personally, and I don't think we should carve out possessions for either Roy or Aldridge. Roy can get them, and Aldridge doesn't always have good matchups.

Oden is a guy who will be able to get opponents into foul trouble and, I believe, by giving him offensive opportunities it will make him more effective on the court overall. He hasn't said as much, but I know Shaq has consistently maintained that in his career, and it makes sense to me.

Ed O.
 
Oden covered his gaurds' and wings' keisters tonight by swatting myriad interior shots created off of massive dribble penetration and almost none of them made any kind of concerted effort to reward him by getting him some touches at the offensive end. Certainly Greg was partly to blame for some of his errors and failure to get good, deep post position (and let's give credit where it's due, Hayes is a helluva defender for his size), but if they want him to be a consistent threat from the low block they have to commit to setting him up.

Icing him or freezing him out because he's struggling just leads to less rhythm and less confidence. I'd take five regular season losses that came from over-committing to setting Oden up and him not succeeding if it meant that by the end of the year he was a comfortable offensive player.
 
Blake, Roy, and Outlaw are just inept at feeding the post. I don't understand why Nate doesn't get that. Oden should be matched up with guards like Miller and Rudy who know how to throw a lob or pass the ball to the rolling big man off a pick.

Miller and Oden played a grand total of about 8 minutes together tonight. Rudy and Oden, about 7.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20091027&game=HOUPOR
 
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Ed O said:
I consider Oden to be more important to the future of the franchise than anyone on the roster; if he develops, we've got a good chance at a dynasty, but if he does not then we might never make a Finals. I don't care if Martell, Rudy or Miller get any additional touches, personally, and I don't think we should carve out possessions for either Roy or Aldridge. Roy can get them, and Aldridge doesn't always have good matchups.

Oden is a guy who will be able to get opponents into foul trouble and, I believe, by giving him offensive opportunities it will make him more effective on the court overall. He hasn't said as much, but I know Shaq has consistently maintained that in his career, and it makes sense to me.

Ed O.
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You make great points and I'm not sure we're that far from each other in how valuable we think Greg is to this team. Shaq didn't get the ball because Brian Hill carved out plays for him, it's because he was effective most times he touched the ball and his teammates wanted to get him the ball because it gave them the best chance to win. Greg hasn't got to that point, yet.

I just don't think you can force confidence onto someone by having them go to their weaknesses over and over. I think the more put-backs and easy buckets he gets, the easier it will be for him to have confidence in his post moves.

Thursday probably won't be the best indicator, but I do expect Greg's offensive productivity to jump greatly sooner than later.

I think we have a philosophical difference when it comes to coaching and developing confidence. Who knows who is right, but I know we both hope Greg continues to develop.
 
The thing that is depressing is the HOME COURT show. The new guy seems pretty cool, but Michael Holton is terribad, and the cameramen are horrible too. Its an embarassment to the Blazers.
 
tbfan said:
The thing that is depressing is the HOME COURT show. The new guy seems pretty cool, but Michael Holton is terribad, and the cameramen are horrible too. Its an embarassment to the Blazers.
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LOL. Even the camera man was bad. They went out of focus and I was like "Am I drunk or is the camera man fucked up?"
 
Post #s 7 to 11 get it. McMillan told the team that Oden is to learn defense this year and not score much. It was in OregonLive.

Post #s 23-24 then contradict that, saying that Oden not scoring is the fault of poor play (#23: Oden doesn't look to score. #24: His teammates don't look to set him up). Yuyuza plays both sides of the argument in Post #s 7 and 24.
 
jlprk said:
Post #s 7 to 11 get it. McMillan told the team that Oden is to learn defense this year and not score much. It was in OregonLive.

Post #s 23-24 then contradict that, saying that Oden not scoring is the fault of poor play (#23: Oden doesn't look to score. #24: His teammates don't look to set him up). Yuyuza plays both sides of the argument in Post #s 7 and 24.
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It's the depressive thread play-by-play!

The thing is, this game WAS moving too fast for Greg. With the Rockets in permanent small-ball (out of necessity), this game was much faster than any of the preseason games, including vs. the Suns. That is not Greg's strength -- pesky little guys swatting at his hands have always been his kryptonite down low. He's like some sort of giant gorilla battling many small foes down there...



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