Dinosaurs and man coexisting

[Nikolokolus]

FWIW, I'm a geographer with a geology minor; no "expert" but I understand the fundamentals of what I'm talking about.

 

[Denny Crane]

How can I explain this in the simplest terms? Yes folding, faulting and eruptions occur, but if any new material is introduced into a fault and then converted into rock over time, it would be geologically distinct from the older rock. A layer of sandstone or limestone (sedimentary rock) wedged between a layer of andesite or basalt will be starkly different and would be huge clue to a geologist that the two layers are from different epochs.

If by magic 65M years newer material somehow fell down to much deeper in the earth, they would find human remains with dinosaurs. They don't.

 

[magnifier661]

FWIW, I'm a geographer with a geology minor; no "expert" but I understand the fundamentals of what I'm talking about.

I am aware of your education; which is why I won't jump into a debate on a disagreement. I do have a question though. I've seen studies where geologists aged a fossil; then later discovered it was older than the area in which they found it. How is that possible?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How can I explain this in the simplest terms? Yes folding, faulting and eruptions occur, but if any new material is introduced into a fault and then converted into rock over time, it would be geologically distinct from the older rock. A layer of sandstone or limestone (sedimentary rock) wedged between a layer of andesite or basalt will be starkly different and would be huge clue to a geologist that the two layers are from different epochs.

so, what does a geologist do with polystrate fossils?

 

[magnifier661]

so, what does a geologist do with polystrate fossils?

This was kinda what I was getting at

 

[Nikolokolus]

so, what does a geologist do with polystrate fossils?

You'd first try to use absolute dating methods vs. relative dating methods for one thing.

 

[Nikolokolus]

A brief description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil

In geology, such fossils are referred to as upright fossils, trunks, or trees. Brief periods of rapid sedimentation favor their formation.[2][4] Upright fossils are typically found in layers associated with an actively subsiding coastal plain or rift basin, or with the accumulation of volcanic material around a periodically erupting stratovolcano. Typically, this period of rapid sedimentation was followed by a period of time, decades to thousands of years long, characterized by very slow or no accumulation of sediments. In river deltas and other coastal plain settings, rapid sedimentation is often the end result of a brief period of accelerated subsidence of an area of coastal plain relative to sea level caused by salt tectonics, global sea level rise, growth faulting, continental margin collapse, or some combination of these factors.[4] For example, geologists such as John W. F. Waldron and Michael C. Rygel have argued that the rapid burial and preservation of polystrate fossil trees found at Joggins, Nova Scotia was the direct result of rapid subsidence, caused by salt tectonics within an already subsiding pull apart basin, and resulting rapid accumulation of sediments.[5][6] The specific layers containing polystrate fossils occupy only a very limited fraction of the total area of any of these basins.[5][7]

 

[Nikolokolus]

I am aware of your education; which is why I won't jump into a debate on a disagreement. I do have a question though. I've seen studies where geologists aged a fossil; then later discovered it was older than the area in which they found it. How is that possible?

It's possible that an older fossil could be found in a younger layer of rock, but not vice versa without leaving some evidence of fragmenting or disruption of the older layer.

 

[Further]

most polystrate fossils are simply larger than layer in which they would be housed, so a tree sticks up. There are areas where churning of the ground reverses order or lays over on itself, so the layers seem mangled, and in these areas it is very common for aging mistakes at first. But a more thorough overview of the area, a mapping of the layers, will quickly show this original aging was false. So the first aging is a best guess, and then more info comes in and a better guess, and then more info and you start to move away from a guess into actual fact.

 

[magnifier661]

It's possible that an older fossil could be found in a younger layer of rock, but not vice versa without leaving some evidence of fragmenting or disruption of the older layer.

Ahhh Okay I get you... So a fossil like a T. Rex; could make its way to a younger spot and still work in the age of the geologist; but the younger fossil cannot make it to the older spot without clues of other younger sediment being their as well?

 

[Further]

It's possible that an older fossil could be found in a younger layer of rock, but not vice versa without leaving some evidence of fragmenting or disruption of the older layer.

exactly. rep

 

[Further]

Hey mags, I took a few geology classes about a decade ago and just loved them. I think you would too, it's a really cool puzzle to work with. Don't take the earlier comment as just a poke, it's actually pretty damn interesting. One of the more interesting one that actually seems to be offered at many colleges is Geology of the National Forests. So learning about stuff from Yellowstone to Arches. If you have time, you can even just audit classes at many schools, no homework and just a tiny fee, but you still get to do all the learning. I think it would be up your ally.


EDIT: I think it's national parks.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hey mags, I took a few geology classes about a decade ago and just loved them. I think you would too, it's a really cool puzzle to work with. Don't take the earlier comment as just a poke, it's actually pretty damn interesting. One of the more interesting one that actually seems to be offered at many colleges is Geology of the National Forests. So learning about stuff from Yellowstone to Arches. If you have time, you can even just audit classes at many schools, no homework and just a tiny fee, but you still get to do all the learning. I think it would be up your ally.


EDIT: I think it's national parks.

You leave his ally and what goes up it out of this.

 

[Further]

You leave his ally and what goes up it out of this.

Are you saying his wife has a special package that didn't show up in those photos?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ahhh Okay I get you... So a fossil like a T. Rex; could make its way to a younger spot and still work in the age of the geologist; but the younger fossil cannot make it to the older spot without clues of other younger sediment being their as well?

I'll create two hypothetical scenarios for you.

Older fossils in a newer layer of rock: Let's say a massive flood event hit the Natural History Museum and swept up all of the fossilized T-Rex skeletons and deposited them in a layer or silty mud. A million years later a geologist comes along and chips them out of the sandstone. His first guess is to use a relative dating method to order all of the fossils he finds there. Let's say he finds small mammals along side the much older dinosaur bones and initially assumes they are the same age. He then tests the bones with an absolute dating method using radiometric isotopes (not necessarily radio-carbon dating, but strontium, potassium, argon, etc. which all have much longer half-lives). He then discovers that the Dinosaur bones are much older than the mammalian bones. He would then determine that the much older material must have been exposed at some point and found its way into a different layer or rock ... but he probably wouldn't know about the Natural History Museum.

Newer material in an older layer of rock You've been eating buffalo wings on your front porch and taking a lot of mescaline and you're wondering how you can get this chicken bone into the middle of this big boulder in your front yard without damaging the boulder. Fact is you can't unless you drill into it, split it in two or use the power of your mescaline enhanced mind to teleport the chicken bone into the center of the rock.

 

[Denny Crane]

Glacier picks up fossil and moves it 1000 miles away where plate tectonics causes a mountain to appear and moves the fossil to the tip of the highest peak.

 

[magnifier661]

I'll create two hypothetical scenarios for you.

Older fossils in a newer layer of rock: Let's say a massive flood event hit the Natural History Museum and swept up all of the fossilized T-Rex skeletons and deposited them in a layer or silty mud. A million years later a geologist comes along and chips them out of the sandstone. His first guess is to use a relative dating method to order all of the fossils he finds there. Let's say he finds small mammals along side the much older dinosaur bones and initially assumes they are the same age. He then tests the bones with an absolute dating method using radiometric isotopes (not necessarily radio-carbon dating, but strontium, potassium, argon, etc. which all have much longer half-lives). He then discovers that the Dinosaur bones are much older than the mammalian bones. He would then determine that the much older material must have been exposed at some point and found its way into a different layer or rock ... but he probably wouldn't know about the Natural History Museum.

Newer material in an older layer of rock You've been eating buffalo wings on your front porch and taking a lot of mescaline and you're wondering how you can get this chicken bone into the middle of this big boulder in your front yard without damaging the boulder. Fact is you can't unless you drill into it, split it in two or use the power of your mescaline enhanced mind to teleport the chicken bone into the center of the rock.

Wowy zowy man! That's far out!

 

[Further]

http://www.rpdp.net/sciencetips_v3/E8C1.htm
Go down to the section labled :Relative Age Dating

 

[Nikolokolus]

FWIW Mags, you seem to be really curious about this kind of stuff and I'm dead serious about taking an online course in geology or geography. Universities and community colleges offer introductory courses all of the time and you could even audit it.

 

[magnifier661]

FWIW Mags, you seem to be really curious about this kind of stuff and I'm dead serious about taking an online course in geology or geography. Universities and community colleges offer introductory courses all of the time and you could even audit it.

Thanks man. I will take yours and Further's advice into consideration. I just have so much time invested in my current project right now.

 

[Further]

Thanks man. I will take yours and Further's advice into consideration. I just have so much time invested in my current project right now.

Dropping acid only takes 8 hours

 

[Denny Crane]

Dropping acid only takes 8 hours

Recovering from taking it repeatedly takes a lifetime.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Recovering from taking it repeatedly takes a lifetime.

Link?

 

[magnifier661]

Link?

Exactly

 

[Denny Crane]

Link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Flashbacks_and_HPPD

 

[magnifier661]

Dropping acid only takes 8 hours

12 hours actually

 

[Further]

Link?

Exactly

Decades of LSD use may have deleterious effects

 

[magnifier661]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Flashbacks_and_HPPD

You should read what you post

There have been no documented human deaths from an LSD overdose.[46] It is physiologically well tolerated and there is no evidence for long-lasting physiological effects on the brain or other parts of the human organism.[47]

 

[magnifier661]

Decades of LSD use may have deleterious effects


EDIT - The link should go to Mags Profile but there is something wrong with the page.

Backfired on you lol

 

[Further]

12 hours actually

Depends. 1 average dose usually everything is pretty done for me after about 8h, perhaps an odd line moves here or there, but it's basically over. But do a few extra hits, or have some particularly good shit, and ya even 12 hours may not be adequate.