Dirty Spending Secrets

[blazerboy30]

Interesting point. How's that working out for Ireland?

Their national corporate tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is actually quite high compared to other countries, despite their low corporate tax rate. So, it seems like it might be working out relatively well.

Also, I'm not talking only about corporate loopholes.

The same logic applies whether it is corporate or private. In many cases, what some consider "loopholes" others consider "incentives".

 

[Ed O]

Fair enough regarding tax increases (of course anyone that thinks the status quo is the way to go is CRAZY lol), but I don't see how anyone can disagree with closing some of the loopholes. Allowing people/companies to skirt paying taxes for stupid reasons is basically the same as foolish spending. Either way you're out money and get nothing in return.

"Loophole" is in the eye of the beholder, of course

I agree with you that things that I think are loopholes should be closed... although you and I might have different standards of definition.

Even if I agree with you that it's a loophole, I prefer loopholes to foolish spending... the former is allowing some entity to keep money they earned productively (even as they're paying less than they should) while the latter is taking money from those that have been productive.

It might not make a difference to some, but it does to me.

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

Their national corporate tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is actually quite high compared to other countries, despite their low corporate tax rate. So, it seems like it might be working out relatively well.

So, the government taking a high percentage of GDP is a good thing in Ireland, but when it happens here it is a bad, bad thing. Interesting.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

So, the government taking a high percentage of GDP is a good thing in Ireland, but when it happens here it is a bad, bad thing. Interesting.

barfo

I think that one went over your head. Try again.

 

[barfo]

I think that one went over your head. Try again.

Why don't you explain it to me, then.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Why don't you explain it to me, then.

barfo

Allowing people/companies to skirt paying taxes for stupid reasons is basically the same as foolish spending. Either way you're out money and get nothing in return.

Their national corporate tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is actually quite high compared to other countries, despite their low corporate tax rate.

Pretty easy to follow.

 

[barfo]

Pretty easy to follow.

I think you missed my point then. Yes, you showed they get revenue despite giving corporate tax breaks.

Yet you are holding their economic system up as an example of "working well" by showing that they take a high fraction of GDP as taxes. Which is a very curious position for you to take.

I'll bet if I searched I could find an example you saying that the US taking the (lower) fraction of GDP that they do is a sign of economic disaster.

So why is taking a high percentage of GDP in Ireland a sign that the tax system works, and taking a somewhat lower percentage of GDP in the US is a sign that taxes are too high and out of control?

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

I think you missed my point then. Yes, you showed they get revenue despite giving corporate tax breaks.

Yet you are holding their economic system up as an example of "working well" by showing that they take a high fraction of GDP as taxes. Which is a very curious position for you to take.

1) Mobes asked how it was working "for them"

2) It was an example to show the falseness of the idea that tax incentives / loopholes don't produce anything in return.

3) You're the one stating I'm taking a position that I didn't take. Sometimes we call those strawmen.

I'll bet if I searched I could find an example you saying that the US taking the (lower) fraction of GDP that they do is a sign of economic disaster.

So why is taking a high percentage of GDP in Ireland a sign that the tax system works, and taking a somewhat lower percentage of GDP in the US is a sign that taxes are too high and out of control?

barfo

Now you're asking for an entirely different discussion.

 

[barfo]

1) Mobes asked how it was working "for them"

2) It was an example to show the falseness of the idea that tax incentives / loopholes don't produce anything in return.

3) You're the one stating I'm taking a position that I didn't take. Sometimes we call those strawmen.

You did take that position, however. He asked how well it was working out for them and you said it was "working out relatively well".

Now you're asking for an entirely different discussion.

Yes! You are right! I took what you said and made a different but related point. A message board first, I am sure. I've applied for the patent.

I note you didn't answer the question. Not exactly a message board first. No patent for you.

barfo

 

[Klinky]

One would hope we'd rely more on what the country offers as a whole - solid infrastructure, skilled workforce - instead of the name of the game being who can lower corporate tax rates the lowest. Business is for societies sake, society isn't for businesses sake.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think you missed my point then. Yes, you showed they get revenue despite giving corporate tax breaks.
barfo

There you go again.

What good is it if the govt. takes 100% of GDP and spends 110% of GDP?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2011-05-21-ireland-obama_n.htm

 

[Klinky]

There you go again.

What good is it if the govt. takes 100% of GDP and spends 110% of GDP?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2011-05-21-ireland-obama_n.htm

Maybe those low tax rates were too low?

A lot of Ireland's debt is related to bailing out "private" banks.

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe those low tax rates were too low?

A lot of Ireland's debt is related to bailing out "private" banks.

Although Ireland's debt crisis was caused by a housing bust and credit meltdown far worse and more poorly managed than the U.S. version, there is one haunting similarity: government debt, counting what's owed by state and local governments, is in the same ballpark.

"How much worse does it get if instead of taking care of the problem yourself, you allow the problem to take care of you?" says Joseph Minarik, senior vice president at the Committee for Economic Development.

"Ireland got to the latter point. They had the situation rubbed in their faces," he says.

Ireland's debt was about 25% of its economy before the housing and credit bust prompted the government to bail out the banks. Now it's 112% and rising.

---

Obama's fighting to increase our debt to $14.4T, which is 100% of what GDP was in 2009.

 

[blazerboy30]

You did take that position, however. He asked how well it was working out for them and you said it was "working out relatively well".

Context... learn it. Now you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Yes, he said "for them", and I said "relatively well". Take your lame game somewhere else.

Yes! You are right! I took what you said and made a different but related point. A message board first, I am sure. I've applied for the patent.

I note you didn't answer the question. Not exactly a message board first. No patent for you.

barfo

You're right. I didn't answer the question you were going off on a tangent about. Start a new thread if you want.

 

[blazerboy30]

One would hope we'd rely more on what the country offers as a whole - solid infrastructure, skilled workforce - instead of the name of the game being who can lower corporate tax rates the lowest. Business is for societies sake, society isn't for businesses sake.

Cool story, bro.

 

[barfo]

You're right. I didn't answer the question you were going off on a tangent about. Start a new thread if you want.

Your inability to defend your positions is continually amusing, although no longer surprising.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Your inability to defend your positions is continually amusing, although no longer surprising.

barfo

What position are you asking me to defend? My position on Ireland?