Do Defenses REALLY Win Championships?

[Targus]

So, I keep hearing the age-old cliche' that, "defense wins championships." I disagree. I think good defense HELPS win, but it is hardly as simple as so many make it out to be.

Why is this being discussed? Because the wagoners seem to play the tune sold by the Blazers that Durant will win scoring titles and Oden will win championships. So, this leads me to question if the minions are simply quoting a cliche' and spewing what the Blazer front office wants fans to believe, or if there is substance to the blanket statement.

I found the following article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159147-nba-betting-the-defense-wins-championships-myth-exposed

It's an interesting read with some valid points, but I wanted to see more. I looked at statistical rankings of championships.

The first question one could reasonably ask is why scoring goes down during playoffs? Fairly simply answer. Intensity rises.

One article states: "Recent historic fact No. 1: The 2007 Miami Heat became the first team in NBA history to win a championship only to get swept in the first round the following year. Yet defensively they were superior to their championship year, jumping from 13th in the league to eighth."

"the Memphis Grizzlies who set an all-time mark for consecutive postseason losses. Yes, the league’s numero uno defense set the bar for playoff incompetence."

"the Dallas Mavericks became victims of the biggest upset in NBA playoff history when they were not just beaten, but dominated by the Golden State Warriors.

Said the media, this of course was the year that Avery Johnson was finally able to exorcise Dallas of the offensive mindset Don Nelson that poisoned them with for years. The transition to offensive-oriented to defensive-minded was complete. And so was their season completed—very quickly.

Oh and the team that beat them was the worst defensive team in the NBA—Golden State coached by Don Nelson."

"The simple fact is every single NBA Champion will have the extremely rare commodity of at least two legitimate big time go-to players who can make the big shot and/or the big pass when the game on the line. "

Am I wrong? Does defense win championships? Nope. It helps. I think too many people bought the cliche', hook-line-sinker, that Oden will win championships and Durant won't. I conclude, Durant will win championships and Oden will not.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159147-nba-betting-the-defense-wins-championships-myth-exposed

 

[Denny Crane]

The evidence and teams mentioned is anecdotal

The Lakers won last season with a 11th best Offensive Rating and 4th best Defensive Rating. 3rd and 6th the season before. They lost to the Celtics the season before in spite of 3rd and 5th best at those ratings; the Celtics were 10th offensive rating and 1st defensive rating.

It seems to me that recent NBA champions have consisted of at least one guy who's arguably the very best in the league, at least 3 guys who are serious all-star candidates, and a 4th who's on the Bynum or Rondo level (which is quite good).

A team cannot win with defense alone, nor can it win with offense alone, and the teams that win have a minimal number of guys who are good at only one end of the court.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Michael Irvin of all people had a great quote about this. During the NFL draft a few years ago he was asked about the odd selection of one of the Cowboys players. The Cowboys REALLY needed defensive help, but picked an offensive big play guy. Irvin said something like "I know people say defense wins championships, but there has never been an outright champion that didn't score more than their opponent."

Now while I am sure there have been some technicality bullshit winners without scoring more, he is 100% correct.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

When was the last team to win a championship that played average or below average defense? None that I can remember.

If you prefer "Defense is a Prerequisite for Championships," then I'll offer you that.

Wilt never won championships because he'd always loaf getting back on D. When his coach convinced him he needed to play Defense with effort, the championships came. At least that's the age old story.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

"I know people say defense wins championships, but there has never been an outright champion that didn't score more than their opponent."

Now while I am sure there have been some technicality bullshit winners without scoring more, he is 100% correct.

There has also never been a champion that didn't hold their opponent to less points than they scored.

 

[RipCityInsider]

So, I keep hearing the age-old cliche' that, "defense wins championships." I disagree. I think good defense HELPS win, but it is hardly as simple as so many make it out to be.

Why is this being discussed? Because the wagoners seem to play the tune sold by the Blazers that Durant will win scoring titles and Oden will win championships. So, this leads me to question if the minions are simply quoting a cliche' and spewing what the Blazer front office wants fans to believe, or if there is substance to the blanket statement.

I found the following article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159147-nba-betting-the-defense-wins-championships-myth-exposed

It's an interesting read with some valid points, but I wanted to see more. I looked at statistical rankings of championships.

The first question one could reasonably ask is why scoring goes down during playoffs? Fairly simply answer. Intensity rises.

One article states: "Recent historic fact No. 1: The 2007 Miami Heat became the first team in NBA history to win a championship only to get swept in the first round the following year. Yet defensively they were superior to their championship year, jumping from 13th in the league to eighth."

"the Memphis Grizzlies who set an all-time mark for consecutive postseason losses. Yes, the league’s numero uno defense set the bar for playoff incompetence."

"the Dallas Mavericks became victims of the biggest upset in NBA playoff history when they were not just beaten, but dominated by the Golden State Warriors.

Said the media, this of course was the year that Avery Johnson was finally able to exorcise Dallas of the offensive mindset Don Nelson that poisoned them with for years. The transition to offensive-oriented to defensive-minded was complete. And so was their season completed—very quickly.

Oh and the team that beat them was the worst defensive team in the NBA—Golden State coached by Don Nelson."

"The simple fact is every single NBA Champion will have the extremely rare commodity of at least two legitimate big time go-to players who can make the big shot and/or the big pass when the game on the line. "

Am I wrong? Does defense win championships? Nope. It helps. I think too many people bought the cliche', hook-line-sinker, that Oden will win championships and Durant won't. I conclude, Durant will win championships and Oden will not.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159147-nba-betting-the-defense-wins-championships-myth-exposed

A fairly simple response is yes the Intensity on the DEFENSIVE end rises. Watch a regular season game and compare it to a playoff game. There is a significant increased of effort on the defensive side of the ball. You don't even have to look up stats to know that.

 

[STOMP]

good D often leads to easy fastbreak opportunities on the other end. Besides steals and blocks, dominating the paint has same effect. If a team's Bigs can keep the opponent from scoring close in and settling for long jumpers that leads to long rebounds

another old truism comes to mind... the best offense is a good defense

STOMP

 

[Targus]

Great replies!

I sometimes wondered why the addition of Buck Williams (awesome defense) didn't push my favorite Blazer team into a Championship winning team. Seemed like there was always a team with a better offensive element...

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Obviously defense alone doesn't win championships, but if you asked me if I would prefer my team to be more talented on defense or offense I would take defense every time.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

One need only look at all the championship rings adorning Don Nelson's fingers to know the true answer to the question of Defense and Championships.

 

[Masbee]

So, I keep hearing the age-old cliche' that, "defense wins championships." I disagree. I think good defense HELPS win, but it is hardly as simple as so many make it out to be.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159147-nba-betting-the-defense-wins-championships-myth-exposed

That is the thing with sayings like "Defense Wins Championships". By definition these mantras are oversimplifications. To say that "it isn't as simple as that" is merely to state the obvious.

If you look at championship teams, you will see that every one had at least an above average defense, and many had a top 5 defensive squad.

However, the best defensive team in the NBA that couldn't score well has not won either. Defense by itself hasn't won. And, the best offensive team in the NBA with a below average defense has not won. You have to be able to get some stops in the playoffs.

To win it all you need a mix of quality defense and quality offense. The mantra comes from the observation that if your defense is subpar, you have little chance.

Within that framwork there are different approaches that have won. Some emphasize lockdown defense with efficient scoring. Some emphasize good overall defense with explosive and/or unstoppable offense.

 

[Minstrel]

"Defense wins championships" is simply an overstatement that (in my opinion) started and continues to exist in order to combat the emphasis many people put on offense, since offense is flashier, more obvious, more easily encapsulated in statistics. Statements like "defense wins championships" in some sense taints offense as for flashy losers...which is as inaccurate as putting all the emphasis on offense.

I understand why people continue to mouth the statement, especially coaches of younger players. Basketball players will always be drawn to being good at offense, so there needs to be something that draws players towards to wanting to be good at defense. Tying it to winning, as inaccurate by simplification as it is, does that.

Ultimately, offense and defense are equally important. To win, you need to be good at everything, including rebounding. To win a title, you need to be good at everything and great at something.

 

[mook]

If offense and defense are equally important, then why are great offensive players paid drastically more than great defensive players?

Who is going to make more over the lifetime of their careers--Carmello Anthony or Gerald Wallace? Hedo Turkoglu or Shane Battier? Steve Nash or Devin Harris?

I think the market tells you the value of offense and defense. Lots of guys in the NBA can play good defense, because if you are athletically gifted and try really hard you can be at least a passable defender. So building a team with lots of defensive players is relatively easy.

The hard part is finding good offensive players. Because no matter how athletic you are, if you always dribble the ball off your foot or can't make a jumpshot by the time you reach the NBA level, very rarely will any amount of effort change that significantly.

Even harder is finding good offensive players who can also commit to defense.

(It's great to add in one defense-only stalwart like Mutombo or Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman in their prime, but even those guys needed pretty special players put around them to be successful.)

Good defense is a pre-requisite for most teams to advance beyond the first round of the playoffs. But once all the teams start ratcheting up their defense, it's the ones who can still run up points that tend to succeed.

 

[blazedanugz]

ask kobe bryant, tim duncan,kevin garnett,chauncey billups, etc. why they won the championship and i will at the least garantee you they do not say offense. imguessing they will probably say that "old cliche" you were talking about

 

[RoyToy]

Dominating the paint on both sides of the floor wins championships, and that is why Oden was selected.

Note - In the Lakers/Celtics Finals this past year, whoever won the rebounding battle that night won the game. Kobe had a terrible game 7 but he had like 15 rebounds or something and the Lakers were like +22 in rebounds.

 

[Minstrel]

If offense and defense are equally important, then why are great offensive players paid drastically more than great defensive players?

Team defense being equally important as team offense doesn't logically imply that defensive stars are as important as offensive stars. This is due to the nature of the two areas of the game, namely who controls the flow of the game.

A single great offensive player can lift a team offense because his team can direct the ball into his hands a disproportionate amount. A single great defensive player cannot lift a team defense as much because the opposing team can direct the ball away from that player a disproportionate amount.

You are better off having a truly great offensive player and four solid defenders than you are having one truly great defensive player and four solid offensive players.

So I think the market accurately reflects that an offensive star is worth more than a defensive star, but that doesn't refute that team offense and team defense are equally important to winning games.

 

[THE HCP]

I think rebounding and lack of turnovers wins championships!

 

[andalusian]

If offense and defense are equally important, then why are great offensive players paid drastically more than great defensive players?

Because the ticket buying public cares about scoring more than fundamental defense. Duncan never had as many endorsements as Shaq despite the fact that Duncan was a much better defensive player but nowhere near as spectacular on offense - and has as many rings as Shaq.

I think the market tells you the value of offense and defense.

No. The market tells you that offense sells tickets better than defense. You are making a mental leap that really is not backed by anything trying to tie ticket sales to championship aspirations.

 

[bigbailes]

If offense and defense are equally important, then why are great offensive players paid drastically more than great defensive players?

because scoring gets you on espn more and as a whole we view offensive stars to be greater than defensive ones. offensive stars sell tickets, jerseys and get eyeballs to watch tv.

 

[Masbee]

I think rebounding and lack of turnovers wins championships!

And I think good rebounding and low turnovers are are effects more than causes.