Do our summer moves indicate building or rebuilding?

[OneLifeToLive]

What sort of talent-labeling or talent-grading would you like to use? I guess I can give it a shot.

McCollum: High-end bench player, 6MOY candidate-caliber combo guard. Probably never an All-Star, but a low-end Jason Terry.
Robinson: Obviously very enigmatic so I won't get too carried away. Hickson with more upside, but only playing 10-15 minutes a game instead of 28.
Lopez: Young, big C coming off a 19 PER year with 82 starts? It's hard to classify other than to say he's part of the huge "middle" of quality, serviceable NBA centers. Won't make an All-Star game, but a good talent for a team's 5th or 6th best player and a good complement for Aldridge.
Wright: Quality bench shooter. Not an unknown.

Strictly speaking, of course you're right that McCollum and Robinson are unknowns. But I think even my cautious projections for them bring our team's overall talent level up pretty high when combined with Aldridge, Lillard, and Batum.

Now substitute Meyers Leonard with Robyn on the bench. How would you classify Robinson, Leonard, Watson, Wright and the depth? To me its a depth of unknowns.

 

[TowelBoy]

Also, the fact that the Grizzlies' big four is Randolph, Conley, Gasol, and Allen is another reason I'm optimistic about our team's upside. We already have a big four with very comparable talent. This is rough, and not position-by-position necessarily, but bear with me:

Gasol edges Aldridge by a similar margin that Lillard edges Conley. Batum and Randolph are pretty comparable, as are Matthews and Allen.

No?

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Now substitute Meyers Leonard with Robyn on the bench. How would you classify Robinson, Leonard, Watson, Wright and the depth? To me its a depth of unknowns.

I would say that

Lillard l Lillard (second season) - Most likely better. +.05
Wes l Wes - Same
Batum i Batum (same, fathomable that he could be better)
Aldridge l Aldridge (same)
Lopez l Hickson (HUGE upgrade) +1

Maynor l McCollum (6th mannish person ----> push to say the least, Maynor was rather uninspiring with his play last season.
Meyers l Meyers (7th man, first "big" sub). I'd say Meyers should be better this year. +.5
Barton l Wright (8th man) lol no contest here. +1
Claver l Robinson (9th man) Push? I guess? Having a PF that can actually backup LMA is huge though.

So, being rather reasonable in my judgment, I see 4 positions we -should- be better at. Which is enormous.

And I'd say a bench that will sport a rotation of McCollum, Meyers, Wright, Robinson, Watson, Crabbe and Barton is much deeper (and more shooting) than previous years.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Also, the fact that the Grizzlies' big four is Randolph, Conley, Gasol, and Allen is another reason I'm optimistic about our team's upside. We already have a big four with very comparable talent. This is rough, and not position-by-position necessarily, but bear with me:

Gasol edges Aldridge by a similar margin that Lillard edges Conley. Batum and Randolph are pretty comparable, as are Matthews and Allen.

No?

I think you're being rather nice to Batum - but pretty lenient on Matthews vs Allen. Also, the Grizzlies have an amazing defensive system in place - we don't. And I'm not sure you can say Lillard is better than Conley after 1 year, on a non-playoff team.

 

[magnifier661]

Also, the fact that the Grizzlies' big four is Randolph, Conley, Gasol, and Allen is another reason I'm optimistic about our team's upside. We already have a big four with very comparable talent. This is rough, and not position-by-position necessarily, but bear with me:

Gasol edges Aldridge by a similar margin that Lillard edges Conley. Batum and Randolph are pretty comparable, as are Matthews and Allen.

No?

No...

The griz have a better defensive system and coach last season. There was a reason why they made it all the way to the wcf. I think it's absurd to think we are at their level when we haven't even made the playoffs yet.

I have a high respect for the grizzlies. They are a team I would love to model out defense after.

 

[NOVoodoo]

No...

The griz have a better defensive system and coach last season. There was a reason why they made it all the way to the wcf. I think it's absurd to think we are at their level when we haven't even made the playoffs yet.

I have a high respect for the grizzlies. They are a team I would love to model out defense after.

Yeah, TowelBoy, I don't mean to hi-jack the thread with Grizz talk, but I think mags sort of of hit the nail on the head.

You can compare individual players, but at the end of the day, there's not really a defensive backcourt comparable to Allen/Conley, and Marc Gasol's the reigning DPOY (even though Allen should have won it).

Tony Allen couldn't score 30 pts if he was locked in an open gym overnight, but I'd be damned if I've seen a better lockdown defender in the last decade. He's like Patterson in his "Kobe stopper" days, but better and more versatile. He might be getting older, but hell, he didn't show any signs of aging in the playoffs, so I'm not going to assume he'll all of a sudden become a less effective defender next season. (Also, I don't think being 31 is a death sentance in a league where guys can be All-Defensive players well into their 30's.)

Another thing is, our new coach, David Joerger, who was the architect of our defense these last few seasons, is going to try to rightfully play a much more inside-out game than Hollins did, and honestly, I don't think there's a better offensive frontcourt than Gasol and Z-Bo. Not only are both players capable scorers, but they're only getting better by the day at passing within three feet of the basket. Some of the passes Gasol makes to Z-Bo still amaze me. He's a 7+ footer that can make Jason Kidd-like passes in the post, and that's started to rub off on Z-Bo as well.

Anyway, I'm rambling, and like I said, I'm not trying to hijack a thread that has nothing to do with the Grizz, but at the end of the day, the Grizzlies aren't a team that looks good on paper, but they're efficient, play elite defense, and have the best frontcourt in the league, in my opinion. We still need shooting though... we let Morrow slide to New Orleans for the minimum, and so now I'm just hoping we make an effort to sign Rip Hamilton. Either way though, this team is not going to slip too far off their 56 win mark from last season. The core is still in tact.

 

[TowelBoy]

No...

The griz have a better defensive system and coach last season. There was a reason why they made it all the way to the wcf. I think it's absurd to think we are at their level when we haven't even made the playoffs yet.

I have a high respect for the grizzlies. They are a team I would love to model out defense after.

I don't disagree at all about their system being superior. I was just trying to compare the big four on raw talent. Ours should be catching theirs pretty soon, so the rest should come down to role players, depth, and coaching.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't disagree at all about their system being superior. I was just trying to compare the big four on raw talent. Ours should be catching theirs pretty soon, so the rest should come down to role players, depth, and coaching.

I agree that our talent has significantly improved. I just think a lot of their success isn't necessarily their level of talent, but the sums of all parts.

I think we have a chance to be like that, but we really need totally cohesiveness. I'm praying Lopez really picks up like all the other bigs have playing with Aldridge. I also hope that cj actually can handle the back up role. I think wright will be the surprise. The dude just wants to be here man. I think that energy will be addicting!

I don't disagree we can be up there in seeding, but we need all parts to work perfectly. I have faith!

 

[TowelBoy]

You're right that the Grizzlies perform much better than they look on paper, and I agree with your reasons: elite defense and an outstanding post tandem that works well together.

You hear a lot of rhetoric around the league like talent wins championships, you can't contend until you bottom out and get a superstar, blah blah blah blah. I just think that if all you were doing was assigning players letter grades based on raw talent, much like we do to draft prospects every single year, the Blazers' talent base isn't much further from contention level than the Grizzlies and Pacers. No A+s or As, but a couple solid B+s and good depth all around. Honestly the fact that those teams contended should give us up, because we ain't never gonna have first-teamers in Portland (barring a miracle or two).

Here's hoping there's some combination of intangibles and schemes that get enable this Blazer team to take that next step over the next couple years as the talent gels.

 

[magnifier661]

Well Lillard, batum and Aldridge is a damn good trio. I just want the healthy, assertive batum and the inside Aldridge. If those two happen; we will be unstoppable.

 

[TowelBoy]

Well Lillard, batum and Aldridge is a damn good trio. I just want the healthy, assertive batum and the inside Aldridge. If those two happen; we will be unstoppable.

Batum is an absolutely fascinating player. His chronic wrist pain was unfortunate, but it's also the leading theory as to what prompted him to become a 5apg player.

I think it wouldn't be terrible if Batum wasn't an assertive scorer on a team with Lillard, Aldridge, and McCollum. At the beginning of last season, McCollum wasn't here and Lillard was an unknown, and Batum was newly paid, so we sort of wanted him to become 2nd banana to Aldridge. Now that our expectations are more in 3rd or 4th banana range, I think we'll be happier.

Imagine a Batum who doesn't feel burdened by a scoring load, but has a healthy wrist, plays elite defense, hits three 3s a game, and dishes out 5 assists with 5 boards. He'd be the best role player of his kind in the NBA by a long shot.

 

[magnifier661]

Batum is an absolutely fascinating player. His chronic wrist pain was unfortunate, but it's also the leading theory as to what prompted him to become a 5apg player.

I think it wouldn't be terrible if Batum wasn't an assertive scorer on a team with Lillard, Aldridge, and McCollum. At the beginning of last season, McCollum wasn't here and Lillard was an unknown, and Batum was newly paid, so we sort of wanted him to become 2nd banana to Aldridge. Now that our expectations are more in 3rd or 4th banana range, I think we'll be happier.

Imagine a Batum who doesn't feel burdened by a scoring load, but has a healthy wrist, plays elite defense, hits three 3s a game, and dishes out 5 assists with 5 boards. He'd be the best role player of his kind in the NBA by a long shot.

That's fine, but his contract is a bit heavy for a role player like that. He's being paid to be a legit #3 option. Right now, it's not as big of a problem because Lillard is still on that rookie contract. But once Lillard gets his payday, Aldridge gets near max, batum needs to be a legit 3, IMO.

He's definitely got the talent to be that player. He just needs to add about 10 lbs and an offseason without playing over seas. I think we've paid him enough to stop playing for France. I think he's obligated to up his game.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If this question needs to be asked, the Blazers failed this off season

 

[Blazinaway]

The only part of the situation that has me torn is our stupid draft pick going to Charlotte. I really hope we can figure out a way to trade for a pick in the draft if we make the playoffs.

that pick I believe got us Wallace who got us the Nets pick who got us Lillard - that's fine by me

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If this question needs to be asked, the Blazers failed this off season

So, success in the offseason is predicated on convincing all the "Negative Nancies" that the front office turned a team with the worst bench in recent memory into a budding title contender?

 

[Mediocre Man]

So, success in the offseason is predicated on convincing all the "Negative Nancies" that the front office turned a team with the worst bench in recent memory into a budding title contender?

I think it's fair to say that if the question about the direction of the franchise needs to be asked, the team isn't doing a very good job. I know exactly which direction the Celtics, Jazz are going for example. I don't think one fan knows for sure which direction Portland is trying to go. Are they trying to appease Aldridge and sneak into the 8th seed, or are they trying to build a contender for years to come by adding young pieces and hitting it rich in next years star laden draft

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't think one fan knows for sure which direction Portland is trying to go. Are they trying to appease Aldridge and sneak into the 8th seed, or are they trying to build a contender for years to come by adding young pieces and hitting it rich in next years star laden draft

I disagree completely--both with your assertion that the direction is unclear, and with your suggestion that playoffs now and building a contender are mutually exclusive options.

I think it's quite obvious that they're trying to "build a contender for years to come" by:

• acquiring pieces that allow them to improve now and make the playoffs (Wright, Lopez),
• retaining their best player (Aldridge), and
• having significant room for growth (McCollum, Crabbe, Robinson).

Just because you disagree with the philosophy, or because Dave is too myopic to see it (thus precipitating the question being asked) doesn't mean that they "failed" in their efforts to progress toward their intended goal.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I disagree completely--both with your assertion that the direction is unclear, and with your suggestion that playoffs now and building a contender are mutually exclusive options.

I think it's quite obvious that they're trying to "build a contender for years to come" by:

• acquiring pieces that allow them to improve now and make the playoffs (Wright, Lopez),
• retaining their best player (Aldridge), and
• having significant room for growth (McCollum, Crabbe, Robinson).

Just because you disagree with the philosophy, or because Dave is too myopic to see it (thus precipitating the question being asked) doesn't mean that they "failed" in their efforts to progress toward their intended goal.

So which direction do you think they are going, and why?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So which direction do you think they are going, and why?

I believe I just answered that question, but I'll simplify my answer. They're trying to make the playoffs this year, and develop the young pieces they have so they can improve even more next year. Why? Because if Lillard is good enough to build around (as most believe he is), then Lillard/Aldridge is a good enough pair to build a contender with, so it is time to do exactly that.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I believe I just answered that question, but I'll simplify my answer. They're trying to make the playoffs this year, and develop the young pieces they have so they can improve even more next year. Why? Because if Lillard is good enough to build around (as most believe he is), then Lillard/Aldridge is a good enough pair to build a contender with, so it is time to do exactly that.

Ok.

 

[1eyejack]

Nice part about all their signings is they left themselves an escape door. If I'm not mistaken most of the guys contracts end in two years the same as Aldridge. Lillard will be in his prime and we could take another shot at Signing a free agent or making lopsided trade. Of course we have yet to sign a good free agent but that's not the point they didnt paint themselves into a corner. They did a great job of making a plan B if they need it.

 

[Boise Blazer]

The more I read and hear Dave the more I disagree with him. For the people that said we didnt make enough moves this year Im really not sure what they think we should have done instead. Trade LMA? Not for the crap that was being offered. You dont just trade arguably the best PF in the game now for something just to start a rebuild earlier. And trading him no less on the assumption that we arent going to get better so he wants to stay.

We did the best with what we had this summer. We had one of the better starting line-up and one of the worst benches in NBA history. We went out and made the bench better and even improved the starting line-up. All without long term damage to our future cap space. Do people things we were going to load our bench with all-stars?

Yes we want to compete for a title but that wasnt going to happen in the next few years outside of getting someone like LBJ which had a 0% chance of happening. When we build assets on good contracts like we did we put ourselves in a position that IF ... IF IF IF IF IF IF we have to move LMA in the future we can use those assets and the future cap space to get even more value for LMA.

So to answer the thread question. I think that we put ourselves in a win/win position that we are going to try to build and IF we have to move LMA or even just let him walk we have the assets and cap space to do a quicker and easier re-tool more so than a rebuild. Until then we are competitive and gaining experience for our younger players and hopefully playoff experience even if it 8th seed playoff experience.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think Paul Allen wanted a more competitive team, so Neil Olshey helped him out and got some players that will make this team a pretty decent bet to get an 8th or 7th seed this year ... second to that goal I think if you look at the way player contracts are structured and the kinds of players that were added, there's a better than average chance that the moves in the past week make it easier to trade Aldridge (if not likely) if a good enough offer comes up.

We'll have a much clearer idea about which fork in the road Neil and Paul decide to take with the team when we see their record at the trade deadline. If they are strongly on pace to make the playoffs and most of the young guys are performing at a high level and it's all smooth sailing then they'll almost definitely hold on to LMA and let it ride. If they are struggling to gain traction and are mucking about in the 11th to 9th seed range (and trending down) then I think they'll seriously consider trading LaMarcus and getting young assets and draft picks and do their best to ensure a good pick in what many believe will be a loaded draft class.

I think it's too early to say if they are building or rebuilding yet; it feels like they are in a bit of a holding pattern.

 

[blazedanugz]

I respect dave for doing what he does but I would really like to know his basketball credentials. HAS HE EVER PLLLAAAAYED BEFORE? not to judge a book by its cover but I would say no. you can analyze all you want but if you have never played in a seriously competitive game you don't know what a guy like robin lopez potentially brings to the actual game going on. hes done a lot of bitching lately and its starting to bother me

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Outside of the core 4 and a backup C, we had zero roster.
Now we have a roster.

I call that Building, not Rebuilding.