Do we have the worst starting PF/C combo in the league?

[illmatic99]

These guys bring us down so much seemingly. So much defensive attention gets placed on Dame/CJ as no one has to worry about Noah or Plums. Noah especially. Mentioned this in passing last night during the game, but Vonleh and Plums comprise possibly the worst front court combo in the league. Also doesn't help that the other sorta big guy next to them is Aminu, who is a specialist.

Looking over rosters, maybe PHX gets close in Teletovic and Chandler, but they have Len who is coming along recently at least. I suppose it is encouraging that we've won 35 games with this makeup. Should not be hard to upgrade and see it reflected in wins next year.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ummm, NOahs issue wasnt offense last night. It was his D. He had 8 pts and 4 rebounds in 11 minutes........

 

[Orion Bailey]

Id like to add that Plums went 12/5/8 in 28 minutes. Not bad for a nonscoring Center....

 

[illmatic99]

Has to do with a lot more than just last night. Defenders are just leaving Noah wide open. The 12 minutes he's on the court is always a net negative because of how poor the spacing is on offense. And his defense has dropped from earlier in the season. Plums is ok. He's most likely our third best player, but he's very limited defensively.

This isn't some reactionary revelation. It's just come to light when we've faced some opponents who are exposing our biggest weakness up front. And tbh. It's a legit question-- look around in the league and the depth charts.

 

[handiman]

It's easy to forget how young Plumlee is. It's a very young, very athletic, and surprisingly skillful combination with shooting, passing, and ball handling. They aren't without their flaws, but I see a lot of potential from the duo a couple years down the road. I don't even have a problem with Vonleh starting ahead of schedule, because that doesn't really entitle him to big minutes with Stotts' rotation.

We do need more consistent scoring from the SF spot, though. I like a lot of what Aminu does, but he's probably close to his ceiling. An upgrade there would definitely help cover for Plumlee/Vonleh's development curve.

 

[illmatic99]

It's easy to forget how young Plumlee is. It's a very young, very athletic, and surprisingly skillful combination with shooting, passing, and ball handling. They aren't without their flaws, but I see a lot of potential from the duo a couple years down the road. I don't even have a problem with Vonleh starting ahead of schedule, because that doesn't really entitle him to big minutes with Stotts' rotation.

We do need more consistent scoring from the SF spot, though. I like a lot of what Aminu does, but he's probably close to his ceiling. An upgrade there would definitely help cover for Plumlee/Vonleh's development curve.

Really curious to learn about what you see in Noah and his potential. I don't even see flashes -- maybe I'm not looking hard enough. When he's in the game, per 100 possessions, we're losing at least 4 points on the offensive end. Only guys with a lower offensive +/- are Pat, Montero, and Alexander. It feels like it's too late in the season, and too crucial of a situation to give the guy minutes. Granted he's not playing much, but his negative impact is most definitely felt.

 

[handiman]

Really curious to learn about what you see in Noah and his potential. I don't even see flashes. When he's in the game, per 100 possessions, we're losing at least 4 points. Only guys with a lower offensive +/- are Pat, Montero, and Alexander.

He's shown the capability of being a good offensive player, but his confidence seems low in game situations. Right now, he looks like Dame early in his career when he couldn't finish around the basket.

Current production has virtually zero to do with potential. You do see the disconnect there, right?

I'm less certain about Noah's defensive potential, but Plumlee and Davis are such hustle players, it may be sufficient for Vonleh to be a strong, physical presence.

 

[TBpup]

Has to do with a lot more than just last night. Defenders are just leaving Noah wide open. The 12 minutes he's on the court is always a net negative because of how poor the spacing is on offense. And his defense has dropped from earlier in the season. Plums is ok. He's most likely our third best player, but he's very limited defensively.

This isn't some reactionary revelation. It's just come to light when we've faced some opponents who are exposing our biggest weakness up front. And tbh. It's a legit question-- look around in the league and the depth charts.

Of course our biggest weakness if up front but Noah is not ALWAYS a net negative. In fact, there have been games he had the highest or 2nd highest +/- of a anyone on the team. Part of his lack of success, is age, there by a lack of confidence and also how the Blazers use him. His job is to set screens....almost exclusively. They have been so many times he has rolled to the basket or there has been a switch and he pins a 6'2" right under the basket but the guards don't even look to get him the ball in a situation that would be very favorable. Then when he has been open all game long but not getting the ball, he finally gets a shot with no rhythm, no flow and his first natural instinct is to give it right back to a guard like every other big man on this team. He often only shoots as a second thought or when Stotts is yelling at him to shoot because he is so wide open.

That confidence will come in time. He has a good shoot, good form, release, rotation etc. He just needs more than the 1 or 2 shots he gets on some nights. He's still 20 years old yet almost every game will do something that no other big man on this team can do.....just not very often.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I get what you're saying -- they probably are scoring-wise. The starting frontcourt actually.

Noah is a future p&p guy and he's clearly a ways off from being a legit option.

Plumlee is a developing passer who can only score on the p&r.

Aminu, offensively, reminds me of Travis Outlaw. Maybe it's their high-elbow jumper. On a contender Aminu should be a 6th or 7th man.

There is zero post scoring on this team. A capable frontcourt scorer will do wonders for this team.

 

[illmatic99]

He's shown the capability of being a good offensive player, but his confidence seems low in game situations. Right now, he looks like Dame early in his career when he couldn't finish around the basket.

There is nothing about Noah that reminds me of Dame early in his career. Dame had as many points in his very first game as Noah has had in his last 6 games played, combined. And that's including the 8 he threw up last night.

 

[illmatic99]

Of course our biggest weakness if up front but Noah is not ALWAYS a net negative. In fact, there have been games he had the highest or 2nd highest +/- of a anyone on the team. Part of his lack of success, is age, there by a lack of confidence and also how the Blazers use him. His job is to set screens....almost exclusively. They have been so many times he has rolled to the basket or there has been a switch and he pins a 6'2" right under the basket but the guards don't even look to get him the ball in a situation that would be very favorable. Then when he has been open all game long but not getting the ball, he finally gets a shot with no rhythm, no flow and his first natural instinct is to give it right back to a guard like every other big man on this team. He often only shoots as a second thought or when Stotts is yelling at him to shoot because he is so wide open.

That confidence will come in time. He has a good shoot, good form, release, rotation etc. He just needs more than the 1 or 2 shots he gets on some nights. He's still 20 years old yet almost every game will do something that no other big man on this team can do.....just not very often.

Some validity to this. For sure.

Do you agree with still giving him his token 6 minutes per half this late into the season when we are in a playoff push?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Neil and his staff know this.

They've tried twice, summer and the deadline, to land Monroe - a legit post scorer.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Really curious to learn about what you see in Noah and his potential. I don't even see flashes -- maybe I'm not looking hard enough. When he's in the game, per 100 possessions, we're losing at least 4 points on the offensive end. Only guys with a lower offensive +/- are Pat, Montero, and Alexander. It feels like it's too late in the season, and too crucial of a situation to give the guy minutes. Granted he's not playing much, but his negative impact is most definitely felt.

Did you not see his nice looking bank shot last night? Or how he followed up a cj miss with one of the most powerful dunks any blazers has done all season? I really dont think some of you are watching these games and actually paying attention... Again... 8/4 in 11 minutes... what more are you expecting out of a 21 yr old trying to find his way?

 

[handiman]

There is nothing about Noah that reminds me of Dame early in his career. Dame had as many points in his very first game as Noah has had in his last 6 games played, combined. And that's including the 8 he threw up last night.

Need a Snickers? You're not reading like your normal self this morning... The comparison to Dame was purely about finishing around the basket and how it took time to develop that confidence, not about overall scoring. The bulk of Dame's points were not coming around the basket. He was woefully inefficient close in. But, you could see he had the ability, just like Vonleh has the makings of a gifted offensive player.

 

[tlongII]

Plumlee can play a little bit, but Vonleh is terrible. He should not be a starter at this point in his career. The PF/C combination is definitely the weak spot of this team.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Plums would be great.... if we still had LMA.

 

[TBpup]

Some validity to this. For sure.

Do you agree with still giving him his token 6 minutes per half this late into the season when we are in a playoff push?

No. I think he should still get minutes but do so against the other teams bench and since they are in the Playoff chase, start your best 5 and use bench minutes to develop since he is not a regular rotation player. No matter how well or poorly he does, he doesn't go back in after his initial 6 minute run at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters.

No, if the guards would actually look to get him the ball when he is wide open or when he has a huge mis-match off a switch on a regular basis from the start, he likely would be in a better place from a rhythm and confidence standpoint. However, that hasn't happened so let him get his minutes off the bench at this point instead.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think Plums would be great.... if we still had LMA.

After last night, I watched Dame walk right to the lockerroom, and I couldnt help but feel he must be thinking... man... if LMA would have stayed, we would basically have this same team but with LMA and we would be the second best team in the west...


I cant help but think how good we would be right now if we had LMA....

 

[PDXFonz]

We are definitely down on the list.

Marvin Williams & Cody Zeller (Hornets)
Kenneth Faried & Nikola Jokic (Nuggets)
Larry Nance & Roy Hibbert (Lakers)

 

[Natebishop3]

After last night, I watched Dame walk right to the lockerroom, and I couldnt help but feel he must be thinking... man... if LMA would have stayed, we would basically have this same team but with LMA and we would be the second best team in the west...


I cant help but think how good we would be right now if we had LMA....

Would Dame have turned the corner like he did if LMA was still on the roster?

 

[Strenuus]

After last night, I watched Dame walk right to the lockerroom, and I couldnt help but feel he must be thinking... man... if LMA would have stayed, we would basically have this same team but with LMA and we would be the second best team in the west...


I cant help but think how good we would be right now if we had LMA....

This team would not be as good with LMA still here. A playoff team, yes... but Dame would be nowhere near where he is with LMA here. LMA would have held him down. (Assumption, yes, but Dame would not have gotten to do a lot of what he did if he had to dump the ball down low half the time he would have otherwise taken the shots)

Not to mention you would still have to find CJ his shots.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Would Dame have turned the corner like he did if LMA was still on the roster?

Mmmm, hard to say. IF LMA would have been cool with the same roll with us that he has with SA? YES, I think Dame would become our leader and be our #1 option with LMA as ur number two. His consistent mid range with Dames 3pt and drive to the hole abilities.. What I think is CJ wouldnt have evolved this season...

Either way, Im pretty sure we would be a top four team as if if you ad LMA

 

[Strenuus]

Mmmm, hard to say. IF LMA would have been cool with the same roll with us that he has with SA? YES, I think Dame would become our leader and be our #1 option with LMA as ur number two. His consistent mid range with Dames 3pt and drive to the hole abilities.. What I think is CJ wouldnt have evolved this season...

Either way, Im pretty sure we would be a top four team as if if you ad LMA

You are thinking that LMA would already know his role with SA... but this is his first year there, so if he had stayed, he would never know, so he would assume his normal role here. Which would be a TON of touches, both on the block and at the arc. He would have known no different. So, with that said, I think his presence here would hurt the team (still make the playoffs, though) more than help it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You are thinking that LMA would already know his role with SA... but this is his first year there, so if he had stayed, he would never know, so he would assume his normal role here. Which would be a TON of touches, both on the block and at the arc. He would have known no different. So, with that said, I think his presence here would hurt the team (still make the playoffs, though) more than help it.

Your right. If he demandedthe spotlight and to be #1, hinderance. But if he were to accept something else, we would be contenders right now.

 

[Strenuus]

Your right. If he demandedthe spotlight and to be #1, hinderance. But if he were to accept something else, we would be contenders right now.

Just knowing his mindset last year, I don't think he would of. It didn't seem he was comfortable with Dame being a #1 option. He had to be. Pops has a way to change people and shape them up quick.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Just knowing his mindset last year, I don't think he would of. It didn't seem he was comfortable with Dame being a #1 option. He had to be. Pops has a way to change people and shape them up quick.

Pops is the man... there's no doubt about that... Can we sell Texas to mexico?

 

[riverman]

Neil and his staff know this.

They've tried twice, summer and the deadline, to land Monroe - a legit post scorer.

Kanter too..Neil is looking for that scoring big guy

 

[illmatic99]

We are definitely down on the list.

Marvin Williams & Cody Zeller (Hornets)
Kenneth Faried & Nikola Jokic (Nuggets)
Larry Nance & Roy Hibbert (Lakers)

Can't believe I forgot LA. Yes they're clearly worse. CHA isn't that bad, especially when you consider they have Big Al there usually. Think DEN is clearly better up front than us.

We're bottom 3? Pretty pitiful, but still a testament to how good Dame and CJ have been to carry this lot to the playoffs

 

[blue9]

Would Dame have turned the corner like he did if LMA was still on the roster?

Nope. We'd still have an offense wherein LMA shoots 10+ long jumpers per game, at 42%, and never helps on defense. We'd be the 4th or 5th seed and MIGHT make it to the 2nd round.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Neil and his staff know this.

They've tried twice, summer and the deadline, to land Monroe - a legit post scorer.

Would you trade C.J. to the Bucks if the Blazers got back both Monroe and Middleton? What more do you think it would take? Don't be surprised if the Bucks blow it up this summer.