Do you foul?

[BlazersBlood]

It says I'm not fooled by a handful of shots into thinking Horry is more valuable than his overall production and defense wold indicate. Ironically, he was a much better player in his youth and prime, before he got his "clutch" label.

You can feel free to believe Horry had some magical clutch powers that turned him into a superstar when the game was on the line. Believing in late-game witchcraft is clearly the logical stance.

Really? You don't think some guys are "clutch" while others just choke? Yeah, KG "anything is possible" if you've got Ray Allen and Paul Pierce making all the big shots.

I agree Horry's game is very mediocre but when the game is on the line, he doesn't miss very often. You can only be in the right place at the right time so much before it becomes a trend.

 

[Minstrel]

Really? You don't think some guys are "clutch" while others just choke?

I don't think anyone becomes better in key moments. That simply doesn't make sense. If they had another level, they should be playing at it all the time. People don't just magically become better shooters at certain moments because they really, really want to.

Can players choke? That, at least, is logically possible, IMO. Nerves getting to a player, causing their performance to degrade. However, I find it pretty unlikely in the NBA. The NBA is a picked population of players who have spent their whole lives facing pressure situations. Unarguably, the pressure of performing when your entire future is on the line is greater than the pressure of winning any game in the NBA. Players who can't deal with the pressure of performing when everything is on the line don't make it through the extremely extensive winnowing process. Very few high school players survive to the big-time college sports level. And a tiny percentage of major college program players make it to the NBA. The ones who can't handle pressure and keep their skills at their top levels will be beaten out by players who can.

I think Horry was a tremendous player in his prime, a mediocre player as a Laker and Spur, but he always had a good shot. It's not that shocking that a player who was on one championship-level team after another and shoots the ball well got 4-5 chances to nail big shots and made them. For any single player, the chances of that happening aren't good, but it's not unexpected that it would happen to someone.

 

[DaRizzle]

I thought Dunleavy was the inventor of the "Hack-a-Shaq".

Nope..Don Nelson

 

[Jurassic]

I don't think anyone becomes better in key moments. That simply doesn't make sense. If they had another level, they should be playing at it all the time. People don't just magically become better shooters at certain moments because they really, really want to.

Can players choke? That, at least, is logically possible, IMO. Nerves getting to a player, causing their performance to degrade. However, I find it pretty unlikely in the NBA. The NBA is a picked population of players who have spent their whole lives facing pressure situations. Unarguably, the pressure of performing when your entire future is on the line is greater than the pressure of winning any game in the NBA. Players who can't deal with the pressure of performing when everything is on the line don't make it through the extremely extensive winnowing process. Very few high school players survive to the big-time college sports level. And a tiny percentage of major college program players make it to the NBA. The ones who can't handle pressure and keep their skills at their top levels will be beaten out by players who can.

I think Horry was a tremendous player in his prime, a mediocre player as a Laker and Spur, but he always had a good shot. It's not that shocking that a player who was on one championship-level team after another and shoots the ball well got 4-5 chances to nail big shots and made them. For any single player, the chances of that happening aren't good, but it's not unexpected that it would happen to someone.

LOL Are you kidding me?

1. Many of the shots Horry made were not even drawn up for him, beyond that they weren't improvised plays either. They were off of broken plays in a desperate situation. Now its a lot easier to make a shot if you know you're getting the ball, gives you a chance to visualize the scenario (do you play ball?) rather than just having the ball end up in your hands with 1 point something seconds left and having to chuck it. For that reason I give Horry even more credit.

2. This is not all logical, and don't act like NBA players can't step it up, please. Anytime the somebody went to the media and said something negative about Jordan he torched their team in the next meeting, stepped it up a level. Ask Nick Van Gundy and George Karl about that. I play a lot differently when I'm playing with my 10 year old cousin than when I'm playing in gyms on campus. That's why playoff basketball is more intense than the regular season.

3. There have been plenty of great players who couldn't get it done with everything on the line. Not everyone can win a ring, so think of all the greats who HAVEN'T and there's your proof.

 

[WarriorFan]

It says I'm not fooled by a handful of shots into thinking Horry is more valuable than his overall production and defense wold indicate. Ironically, he was a much better player in his youth and prime, before he got his "clutch" label.
.

He came into the league hitting big shots. IIRC, he hit a 3 at the buzzer to win the title his rookie year in Houston.

I know the stats and am not saying he's some great player or even marginal all-star, but you've got to admit, he makes shot he has no business making when the game is on the line. Was it 13 straight years or something like that where he or Steve Kerr won championships?

 

[Minstrel]

LOL Are you kidding me?

1. Many of the shots Horry made were not even drawn up for him, beyond that they weren't improvised plays either. They were off of broken plays in a desperate situation. Now its a lot easier to make a shot if you know you're getting the ball, gives you a chance to visualize the scenario (do you play ball?) rather than just having the ball end up in your hands with 1 point something seconds left and having to chuck it. For that reason I give Horry even more credit.

Saying "Do you play ball?" doesn't add anything to you making random claims. There's nothing to substantiate that it's "easier to hit shots" on planned plays than on broken plays. Those broken plays usually created wide open, undefended shots for Horry. Set plays often end up with defended shots. Wide open shots are easier to hit. Was every Horry shot wide open? No, but there's absolutely nothing to support that the nature of his shots made them harder.

2. This is not all logical, and don't act like NBA players can't step it up, please. Anytime the somebody went to the media and said something negative about Jordan he torched their team in the next meeting, stepped it up a level.

Yes, that's a nice piece of Jordan mythology that you know. Impressive. Jordan happened to be the best player in the game and torched opponents at all times, not just in the clutch or just when someone said something negative. Sometimes, to send a message, he attempted to score more...but he did that by taking more shots, not by "stepping it up" and becoming a better player. The closest thing to this was that, in his later years, he purposely played below his level for most of the season in order to conserve energy and then played better in the playoffs. That wasn't "stepping it up"...that was purposely playing below his level and then returning to his full level,

3. There have been plenty of great players who couldn't get it done with everything on the line. Not everyone can win a ring, so think of all the greats who HAVEN'T and there's your proof.

Not being on a good enough team to win the championship is not the same thing as being bad at handling pressure. Just because many fans and media like to simplify the issue to "Everyone who never won a championship was a pathetic choker" doesn't make it true.

All of your "points" are regurgitated media narratives. Jordan "stepped it up" when insulted, if you don't win championships you "failed when everything was on the line."

 

[drexlersdad]

i definitely agree some nba players cant handle pressure well.

the strange this about " being clutch" is that nobody ever remembers the last second shots that get missed at the buzzer.

for all the shots horry has made at the buzzer, i wonder how many he has missed? that might be a way to determine everybodys " clutch " rating on nba2k.

 

[DaRizzle]

for all the shots horry has made at the buzzer, i wonder how many he has missed?

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[bodyman5001]

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that shot was in and out.

Some people get nervous and turn into a shivering bitch.

Exhibit A...Cliff Robinson until he got old and the weed calmed him
Exhibit B...Doug Christie, that guy almost broke a backboard or two with some last second shot attempts.

Horry had good form for a big guy and didn't seem to get nervous. He is indeed what I consider a clutch player. Not a hall of famer but very good.

I would rather average 5 pts a game and hit Finals winning threes once in a while than have Barkley's career. Even though Barkley was awesome.

 

[DaRizzle]

that shot was in and out.

please dont remind me