Do you guys have a 401K?

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MickZagger

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I started one in January and put in 8%.

I wanna be able to retire at around 53 with enough money between my 401k and pension to travel all over the world when I retire.
 
I've been looking into this stuff the past few weeks. Sounds like I'm not really in a position to start a 401k or any other kind of investment at this stage but I'd really like to start some kind of investment as soon as possible.

Just started paying student loans back this past week. :MARIS61:
 
I had a 401k. Became a 201k following the divorce.
 
You might want to consider putting in the minimum amount to get your employer to match, then opening an IRA. You should be able to put an additional 6K in there and be a little more aggressive with it. Also look to purchase some bonds.

401k's used to be more sure fire than they are now because people thought when they retired they would be in a lower tax bracket, but the way the economy is today, most experts now think that might not be the case.
 
Mick, how old are you? The older you are the more you need to put in.

I worked at crappy jobs for so many years when I got to Genentech I had almost no retirement funds and was already 50 so I put in max plus catchup. It means cutting a lot of stuff now. And of course I am aware it could all go south if the stock market crashes again - which is why workers prefer the old retirement that is now pretty much a thing of the past. My father has guaranteed montly income from his pension plus Social Security. I don't know if I'm going to have either.
 
You might want to consider putting in the minimum amount to get your employer to match, then opening an IRA. You should be able to put an additional 6K in there and be a little more aggressive with it. Also look to purchase some bonds.

401k's used to be more sure fire than they are now because people thought when they retired they would be in a lower tax bracket, but the way the economy is today, most experts now think that might not be the case.

There is a maximum of 5k per person in an Ira; and that's without any other pension involved. If you put 5k in a 401k; you can't put in an Ira with the benefits of tax deferment.

Our work offers a "simple Ira", with the company matching up to 6,000 of total employee investment. This plan allows the employee to put as much as 5% of their earnings.
 
Here is the details of a "Simple IRA"

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p560/ch03.html#en_US_2012_publink10008872

Contribution Limits

Contributions are made up of salary reduction contributions and employer contributions. You, as the employer, must make either matching contributions or nonelective contributions, defined later. No other contributions can be made to the SIMPLE IRA plan. These contributions, which you can deduct, must be made timely. See Time limits for contributing funds, later.

Salary reduction contributions.

The amount the employee chooses to have you contribute to a SIMPLE IRA on his or her behalf cannot be more than $11,500 for 2012 ($12,000 for 2013). These contributions must be expressed as a percentage of the employee's compensation unless you permit the employee to express them as a specific dollar amount. You cannot place restrictions on the contribution amount (such as limiting the contribution percentage), except to comply with the $11,500 ($12,000 for 2013) limit.

If you or an employee participates in any other qualified plan during the year and you or your employee have salary reduction contributions (elective deferrals) under those plans, the salary reduction contributions under a SIMPLE IRA plan also count toward the overall annual limit ($17,000 for 2012 and $17,500 for 2013) on exclusion of salary reduction contributions and other elective deferrals.

Catch-up contributions.
A SIMPLE IRA plan can permit participants who are age 50 or over at the end of the calendar year to also make catch-up contributions. The catch-up contribution limit for 2012 and 2013 for SIMPLE IRA plans is $2,500. Salary reduction contributions are not treated as catch-up contributions for 2012 until they exceed $11,500 ($12,000 for 2013). However, the catch-up contribution a participant can make for a year cannot exceed the lesser of the following amounts.
The catch-up contribution limit.

The excess of the participant's compensation over the salary reduction contributions that are not catch-up contributions.

Employer matching contributions.
You are generally required to match each employee's salary reduction contributions on a dollar-for-dollar basis up to 3% of the employee's compensation. This requirement does not apply if you make nonelective contributions as discussed later.

Example.

In 2012, your employee, John Rose, earned $25,000 and chose to defer 5% of his salary. Your net earnings from self-employment are $40,000, and you choose to contribute 10% of your earnings to your SIMPLE IRA. You make 3% matching contributions. The total contribution you make for John is $2,000, figured as follows.

Salary reduction contributions
($25,000 × .05) $1,250
Employer matching contribution
($25,000 × .03) 750
Total contributions $2,000

The total contribution you make for yourself is $5,200, figured as follows.

Salary reduction contributions
($40,000 × .10) $4,000
Employer matching contribution
($40,000 × .03) 1,200
Total contributions $5,200

Lower percentage.
If you choose a matching contribution less than 3%, the percentage must be at least 1%. You must notify the employees of the lower match within a reasonable period of time before the 60-day election period (discussed earlier) for the calendar year. You cannot choose a percentage less than 3% for more than 2 years during the 5-year period that ends with (and includes) the year for which the choice is effective.

Nonelective contributions.
Instead of matching contributions, you can choose to make nonelective contributions of 2% of compensation on behalf of each eligible employee who has at least $5,000 (or some lower amount you select) of compensation from you for the year. If you make this choice, you must make nonelective contributions whether or not the employee chooses to make salary reduction contributions. Only $250,000 of the employee's compensation can be taken into account to figure the contribution limit in 2012 ($255,000 in 2013).

If you choose this 2% contribution formula, you must notify the employees within a reasonable period of time before the 60-day election period (discussed earlier) for the calendar year.
Example 1.

In 2012, your employee, Jane Wood, earned $36,000 and chose to have you contribute 10% of her salary. Your net earnings from self-employment are $50,000, and you choose to contribute 10% of your earnings to your SIMPLE IRA. You make a 2% nonelective contribution. Both of you are under age 50. The total contribution you make for Jane is $4,320, figured as follows.

Salary reduction contributions
($36,000 × .10) $3,600
2% nonelective contributions
($36,000 × .02) 720
Total contributions $4,320

The total contribution you make for yourself is $6,000, figured as follows.

Salary reduction contributions
($50,000 × .10) $5,000
2% nonelective contributions
($50,000 × .02) 1,000
Total contributions $6,000
Example 2.

Using the same facts as in Example 1, above, the maximum contribution you make for Jane or for yourself if you each earned $75,000 is $13,000, figured as follows.

Salary reduction contributions
(maximum amount allowed) $11,500
2% nonelective contributions
($75,000 × .02) 1,500
Total contributions $13,000

Time limits for contributing funds.
You must make the salary reduction contributions to the SIMPLE IRA within 30 days after the end of the month in which the amounts would otherwise have been payable to the employee in cash. You must make matching contributions or nonelective contributions by the due date (including extensions) for filing your federal income tax return for the year. Certain plans subject to Department of Labor rules may have an earlier due date for salary reduction contributions.
 
Started when I was 24. Wish I'd put in more at the start. Should have well over a million bucks in there when I'm done. Assuming the world doesn't implode or some major life thing doesn't derail it.

I recommend everybody at least spend a few minutes with a 401k calculator every few years and see if where they are makes sense. Here's one, but there are bunch out there. http://www.calculator.net/401k-calculator.html
 
He should go to a backdoor Roth IRA. Again, if his goal is to retire at 60 and travel, put money in everything. My employer matches 50%, so I put in the max and get an extra 8k a year for free. I still am able to put a lot into a backdoor IRA and pay those taxes up front. That has allotted me an extra 5k or so a year for basically free. Plus, with Roth's you can take the money out tax free after 5 years, allowing him to buy gold
 
He should go to a backdoor Roth IRA. Again, if his goal is to retire at 60 and travel, put money in everything. My employer matches 50%, so I put in the max and get an extra 8k a year for free. I still am able to put a lot into a backdoor IRA and pay those taxes up front. That has allotted me an extra 5k or so a year for basically free. Plus, with Roth's you can take the money out tax free after 5 years, allowing him to buy gold

Yes you can do that, but the whole advantage of an IRA is the tax deferment. If you aren't getting the tax break, then why not open a personal investment account and pay the taxes when shares are sold? You have way less limitations with that program, without having any penalties for taking it out early.
 
Yes you can do that, but the whole advantage of an IRA is the tax deferment. If you aren't getting the tax break, then why not open a personal investment account and pay the taxes when shares are sold? You have way less limitations with that program, without having any penalties for taking it out early.

I agree, but the way taxes are headed, a lot of investment experts are saying it's not bad to pay them up front for some of them
 
I started one in January and put in 8%.

I wanna be able to retire at around 53 with enough money between my 401k and pension to travel all over the world when I retire.

How much do you think you need for yearly income to do so?
 
I started one at 21 at my prior job. Unfortunately, it's not what it should be because I pulled out money to buy some property (the positive here is that it helped me get into a house at a reasonable price that just may be my "forever" house, or at least a house that I could live in for 10-20 years, and if the market does recover, significant gains will be made, and then I can get into a smaller house and have significant cash in the bank or to invest).

I have another 401k at my new job (well, of 2+ years). My wife has one as well. All things considered, where we have money invested between real estate, 401k's, etc.... I feel pretty comfortable.
 
How much do you think you need for yearly income to do so?

I know you are an investment guru, so I wanted to see your opinion on my retirement strategy.

1.) I have a no term life insurance policy of $500k

2.) I have a simple IRA that brings in around 11k per year

3.) I have a personal investment account that is diversified with 75% in mutual funds and 25% in actual stocks. I put in 10k per year in this program.

4.) I own 3 investment properties (all paid in full); all with my ex wives or family members, paying little rent. These houses aren't really for me though. I willed each house to each of my 3 kids.
 
I started late, and didn't even have one until I was 29... so I'm making up for lost time. I'm putting in the max each year, plus my employer is putting in 3% (which doesn't count towards the limit). My goal is to be able to retire by 65 even if stock growth is abysmal (~2%). The better the market does, the sooner I'll be able to retire. I live a bit "below" my means but I'm not even feeling like I'm living without anything, since I grew up pretty poor.
 
I started late, and didn't even have one until I was 29... so I'm making up for lost time. I'm putting in the max each year, plus my employer is putting in 3% (which doesn't count towards the limit). My goal is to be able to retire by 65 even if stock growth is abysmal (~2%). The better the market does, the sooner I'll be able to retire. I live a bit "below" my means but I'm not even feeling like I'm living without anything, since I grew up pretty poor.

You are the role model of a "Smart American".
 
I know you are an investment guru, so I wanted to see your opinion on my retirement strategy.

1.) I have a no term life insurance policy of $500k

2.) I have a simple IRA that brings in around 11k per year

3.) I have a personal investment account that is diversified with 75% in mutual funds and 25% in actual stocks. I put in 10k per year in this program.

4.) I own 3 investment properties (all paid in full); all with my ex wives or family members, paying little rent. These houses aren't really for me though. I willed each house to each of my 3 kids.

I'm not super familiar with life insurance plans, so I don't have a comment on that.

For your IRA... do you have a pre-tax 401k? In my opinion, the pre-tax 401k is the first retirement plan that should be maxed out. Deferring tax payments now is like having free money working for you over the next 20-40 years. Everybody's situation is different, buy many people will have lower income, but possibly higher capital gains, when they are retired so paying taxes later in a lower tax rate may help.

For your investment account... Is there a reason why you buy mutual funds instead of ETFs? You can likely find an ETF that replicates almost any mutual fund, but the fees are usually much lower. For example, you can buy the SPY ETF which tracks the S&P 500, pays 2% dividends and has a negligible fee structure. Overall, I like the 75-25 split between funds and individual stocks. As I learn more and more, I'm less and less in individual stocks and only in ETFs / funds.

Why do you have your investment properties paid in full? In a market where you can get almost free money at 3.X%, why not have the minimum amount down on those places and put your extra cash into other investments? Especially when taking into account that you get to write-off that interest, which makes your "effective" interest rate closer to 2.x%. Perhaps it isn't easy to find low-risk investments at > 3.5% right now, but at some point in the future, we'll see higher interest rates which means you may be able to put that cash in CDs making 5-10%.

Just my uninformed opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.
 
I'm not super familiar with life insurance plans, so I don't have a comment on that.

For your IRA... do you have a pre-tax 401k? In my opinion, the pre-tax 401k is the first retirement plan that should be maxed out. Deferring tax payments now is like having free money working for you over the next 20-40 years. Everybody's situation is different, buy many people will have lower income, but possibly higher capital gains, when they are retired so paying taxes later in a lower tax rate may help.

For your investment account... Is there a reason why you buy mutual funds instead of ETFs? You can likely find an ETF that replicates almost any mutual fund, but the fees are usually much lower. For example, you can buy the SPY ETF which tracks the S&P 500, pays 2% dividends and has a negligible fee structure. Overall, I like the 75-25 split between funds and individual stocks. As I learn more and more, I'm less and less in individual stocks and only in ETFs / funds.

Why do you have your investment properties paid in full? In a market where you can get almost free money at 3.X%, why not have the minimum amount down on those places and put your extra cash into other investments? Especially when taking into account that you get to write-off that interest, which makes your "effective" interest rate closer to 2.x%. Perhaps it isn't easy to find low-risk investments at > 3.5% right now, but at some point in the future, we'll see higher interest rates which means you may be able to put that cash in CDs making 5-10%.

Just my uninformed opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.

I agree with blazerboy here. He calls them uninformed, but I'd call it sound.

As for the no-term life insurance policy.... that doesn't really do you much good. But it'll be there for your girl/kids/however you've split you're beneficiaries.
 
I'm not super familiar with life insurance plans, so I don't have a comment on that.

The life insurance program I have for $500k is always available for as long as I pay and stay alive. After 20 years; the policy will have "cash value"; which can be borrowed without having to pay taxes. I am using this for a little "bonus" to use when I need to purchase something and don't want to use my regular income. Basically i keep paying for the policy and when I do pass, my kids will receive the 500k

For your IRA... do you have a pre-tax 401k? In my opinion, the pre-tax 401k is the first retirement plan that should be maxed out. Deferring tax payments now is like having free money working for you over the next 20-40 years. Everybody's situation is different, buy many people will have lower income, but possibly higher capital gains, when they are retired so paying taxes later in a lower tax rate may help.

Yes the Simple IRA is a "pre-tax" retirement account.


For your investment account... Is there a reason why you buy mutual funds instead of ETFs? You can likely find an ETF that replicates almost any mutual fund, but the fees are usually much lower. For example, you can buy the SPY ETF which tracks the S&P 500, pays 2% dividends and has a negligible fee structure. Overall, I like the 75-25 split between funds and individual stocks. As I learn more and more, I'm less and less in individual stocks and only in ETFs / funds.

I like the mutual funds and individual accounts so I can pick the funds and companies. Just a personal preference. The fees are fine as long as the funds outperform the fees by a multiplier of 10.

Why do you have your investment properties paid in full? In a market where you can get almost free money at 3.X%, why not have the minimum amount down on those places and put your extra cash into other investments? Especially when taking into account that you get to write-off that interest, which makes your "effective" interest rate closer to 2.x%. Perhaps it isn't easy to find low-risk investments at > 3.5% right now, but at some point in the future, we'll see higher interest rates which means you may be able to put that cash in CDs making 5-10%.

I cannot take write offs for any interest paid because of my pay scale. I understand the "leveraged" investing benefit; but I like having them paid off and set in my living trust. I am able to place 2 million of assets that are tax deferred after death. It's a good place to put something that appreciates, because my beneficiaries will only pay the tax of the actual value of property at the time it's put into my living trust. In order to do this, I have to own the asset completely.

Just my uninformed opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.

Absolutely! Thanks for the opinions! i wouldn't have asked unless I thought you could answer them for me.
 
I'm a financial planner (for what it's worth) so I've got a decent amount of experience in this area. You should really talk to a CFP or even an advisor at your local bank. They can give some advice about asset allocation and help with the math figuring out how much income you need, projected rates of return, and how much you need to contibute. They can also go over with you the different types of accounts and the reasons to open/not open one. I've noticed more that a few errors in this thread regarding some of the advice you've been given.

One word of advice though, especially if you talk to a commission based advisor. Many of them will push annuities because they pay the advisors well. I'm not saying annuities are always bad, but they serve a specific purpose and too many people buy them without truly needing them and end up paying huge fees. Also, take their allocation recommendations and build a portfolio using ETFs. They are cheaper and the advisors will try to get you to buy A shares which pay an upfront commission of around 4.5% (without breakpoints). Some no load funds are OK but expenses are still usually lower in ETFs. ETFs usually track an index but there is no guarantee or even probability that an actively managed fund will beat the market.
 
I agree with blazerboy here. He calls them uninformed, but I'd call it sound.

As for the no-term life insurance policy.... that doesn't really do you much good. But it'll be there for your girl/kids/however you've split you're beneficiaries.

Actually there is benefit for having the life-insurance because you can borrow from it without having to pay taxes for the money borrowed. And the pay back goes back into the policy; which I own, so no money lost. There is a small increase of yield; price they pay to have your money now. I think it's valued at 3% growth from money invested.

I do no-term for many other reasons too. I actually have policies for my children (young age). Not for my benefit, but the no-term policy is really really cheap when you have a young kid set up. I am paying $80 per month for a 500k policy for each of my kids. When they come of age, they can take over the policy and still only pay $80 a month for the rest of their lives. The cash value will be there for them to borrow in 20+ years.
 
Actually there is benefit for having the life-insurance because you can borrow from it without having to pay taxes for the money borrowed. And the pay back goes back into the policy; which I own, so no money lost. There is a small increase of yield; price they pay to have your money now. I think it's valued at 3% growth from money invested.

I do no-term for many other reasons too. I actually have policies for my children (young age). Not for my benefit, but the no-term policy is really really cheap when you have a young kid set up. I am paying $80 per month for a 500k policy for each of my kids. When they come of age, they can take over the policy and still only pay $80 a month for the rest of their lives. The cash value will be there for them to borrow in 20+ years.

Yeah, I get that aspect of life insurance (my brother deals with life insurance, so I'm learning a lot and quickly about them). You are right - there is some value to you while living, though the real benefit of it all is for your family (and really, what father doesn't want to know he's taking care of his family even after he is gone), unless you take the cash value.

Smart move on setting up the insurance for the kids. My brother helped me do the same. They can cash out at age 20, which if they do, it's basically been a savings account setup for them that they can use for college/home/wedding/whatever at that time. Many parents pay for these things for their kids anyway (well, at least before our economy went into the crapper) - if they had been smart and set these policies up for their kids when they were young, they'd save themselves a lot of cash long-term.
 
Closest year yet for breaking even. I get back $53.47. Somewhere I failed slightly.
 
Yeah, I get that aspect of life insurance (my brother deals with life insurance, so I'm learning a lot and quickly about them). You are right - there is some value to you while living, though the real benefit of it all is for your family (and really, what father doesn't want to know he's taking care of his family even after he is gone), unless you take the cash value.

Smart move on setting up the insurance for the kids. My brother helped me do the same. They can cash out at age 20, which if they do, it's basically been a savings account setup for them that they can use for college/home/wedding/whatever at that time. Many parents pay for these things for their kids anyway (well, at least before our economy went into the crapper) - if they had been smart and set these policies up for their kids when they were young, they'd save themselves a lot of cash long-term.

Yeah this is a good read on the "living advantages" of whole life insurances.

http://www.choose-financial-freedom.com/advantages-of-whole-life-insurance.html

This is a really good plus, IMO.

The Infinite Banking Concept
First, understand the answer to "How do banks make money?". Next, discover the Infinite Banking Concept. Last, learn how infinite banking can accelerate your wealth.

Of all whole life insurance advice, this is probably the one least known. It's our personal strategy to the question: "How do banks make money?"

This is the strategy that we have in place. What this strategy entails is funding your personal infinite banking system in whole life insurance policies. Then instead of going to a financial institution to finance your purchases, you take out policy loans. What this does is put you in control of the loan and you still earn interest on the cash value that's within the policy.

This enables you to recapture the interest that you would have paid to a financial institution. If you use this strategy alone, you will realize all the wealth that is paid to other banks.
 
You are the role model of a "Smart American".

Nah I'm just another Gen X kid who watched his baby boomer parents lose their 401K to bad investing habits and see that they will have exactly dick when they retire, sick and spent, from a workforce rife with callous exploitation. If I'm going to be as empty and dead inside as my parents are at 60, I don't want to be waiting two years for social security.
 
Nah I'm just another Gen X kid who watched his baby boomer parents lose their 401K to bad investing habits and see that they will have exactly dick when they retire, sick and spent, from a workforce rife with callous exploitation. If I'm going to be as empty and dead inside as my parents are at 60, I don't want to be waiting two years for social security.

Amen, brother. Not my parents, but several other people I'm close to who are boomers have fucked up their retirements flatter than hammered shit. I look at my generation and the Millennials and it just gets more and more bleak.

Seems like there will be literally hundreds of millions of Americans who retire in this century with little more than social security. You can blame stupidity, bad planning, bad policy, whatever. But it's pretty clear to me that at some point there will be a massive tax on the wealthy to sustain SS, pay for health care and probably clear out billions in student debt.

You can argue its socialist or whatever, but when a lot of broke people can vote and a very tiny few have most of the wealth, it will not go well for the wealthy.
 
Amen, brother. Not my parents, but several other people I'm close to who are boomers have fucked up their retirements flatter than hammered shit. I look at my generation and the Millennials and it just gets more and more bleak.

Seems like there will be literally hundreds of millions of Americans who retire in this century with little more than social security. You can blame stupidity, bad planning, bad policy, whatever. But it's pretty clear to me that at some point there will be a massive tax on the wealthy to sustain SS, pay for health care and probably clear out billions in student debt.

You can argue its socialist or whatever, but when a lot of broke people can vote and a very tiny few have most of the wealth, it will not go well for the wealthy.

Works for me. Even a little redistribution would do wonders, unless we plan on a massive die-off to balance the budget.

Sorry I'm so bleak, but my dad nearly died in February (staph infection), right after being laid off from the company he's worked at for 40 years. He's lost 30 pounds of muscle mass, can't walk without a cane, shakes so hard he can't paint anymore (always was his second income). He's fucked. Totally fucked. So I'm supporting my parents (paying for COBRA, paying some of their bills) while he recovers enough to get out for interviews with companies who want to pay him half what he's worth to squeeze the last bit of enthusiasm from his withered husk before he dies.

I really don't have a great opinion of capitalism right now.
 
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