Do you question the Blazers' medical staff?

[tlongII]

Personally I have to admit that I DO. I'm sure they will make the argument that all of our injuries are just incredibly bad luck, but I'm just not willing to accept that. Let's look at a few questionable incidents:

1) Martell Webster breaking his foot early last season then returning only to break it again.

2) Greg Oden chipping his kneecap last season and then being told no scoping was necessary. Oden then returns this season and breaks the same kneecap.

3) Nic Batum complaining about shoulder discomfort over the summer with his National Team. He then participates in workouts with the Blazers until just before the season he has to undergo surgery and is lost for most of the year.

4) Brandon Roy showing discomfort with his hamstring and sits out a couple of games. Then he apparently comes back too soon, re-injures his hammy and is lost for who knows how long?

5) Jeff Pendergraph having hip surgery just before the start of the season. Could this have been done sooner?

6) Rudy's back issues. Why did it take so long to determine that surgery was necessary?



I just don't know about our staff? It's hard to believe that everything that has happened is just some ridiculous coincidence.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Don't forget how much Oden's upper body bulked up while he was unable to work out his lower body because of the MF surgery. I can't imagine that was good for his knees.

 

[STOMP]

Q? Do you question the Blazers' medical staff?

not from where I sit. I hope the medical staff is making the right calls but I'm not in the position to know otherwise. People don't just happen to become doctors let alone part of an NBA franchise's experts entrusted with caring for their multi-million dollar assets. I'm sure the Blazer staff of Docs have many decades of experience between them. Experts get the benefit of the doubt from me unless I've good reason to believe otherwise. As removed as we are from being doctors let alone understanding the complexities of these particular injuries makes playing arm chair doctor seem very silly... of course some of us seem to enjoy doing the

Hoops is a rough game and most everyone from pick-up player to pro suffers injuries. Often the body can heal a condition through rest and therapy which is much preferable to surgery. Several of the situations Blazer players faced were in this grey area where surgery was eventually opted for, but that doesn't mean the Blazer Docs were wrong in hoping the body would heal up on it's own. Running a battery of tests and monitoring an injury over time gives the medical expert an idea whether the body is healing or needs some more radical assistance.

STOMP

 

[tlongII]

Q? Do you question the Blazers' medical staff?

not from where I sit. I hope the medical staff is making the right calls but I'm not in the position to know otherwise. People don't just happen to become doctors let alone part of an NBA franchise's experts entrusted with caring for their multi-million dollar assets. I'm sure the Blazer staff of Docs have many decades of experience between them. Experts get the benefit of the doubt from me unless I've good reason to believe otherwise. As removed as we are from being doctors let alone understanding the complexities of these particular injuries makes playing arm chair doctor seem very silly... of course some of us seem to enjoy doing the

Hoops is a rough game and most everyone from pick-up player to pro suffers injuries. Often the body can heal a condition through rest and therapy which is much preferable to surgery. Several of the situations Blazer players faced were in this grey area where surgery was eventually opted for, but that doesn't mean the Blazer Docs were wrong in hoping the body would heal up on it's own. Running a battery of tests and monitoring an injury over time gives the medical expert an idea whether the body is healing or needs some more radical assistance.

STOMP

One would think the sheer volume of injuries would give you good reason to question.

 

[STOMP]

One would think the sheer volume of injuries would give you good reason to question.

you think the Doctors should have prevented Martell from breaking his foot or Roy from straining his hamstring etc..? I don't expect clairvoyant superpowers to be part of their resume. Once an injury like those above has happened, there is no sure path to take getting a guy back up and rolling. Any course of rehab contains a stronger possibility that the player will re-injure their weak link again then if they weren't injured in the first place.

It's not like the amount of injuries that Blazer players have suffered this season is off the charts... hell the Warriors have experienced an even worse run of luck this season and several other teams are missing multiple players. At least none of the injuries should be long term detriments like joint injuries... everyone should be able to make it back.

STOMP

 

[blue32]

Uh, Letting Roy come back to early this year from the Hamstring makes me question. Also, since the injury was suffered last year, and didn't heal ALL OFF SEASON while Roy (Rested and didn't play an ounce of BB) leads me to wonder WTF they are thinking.

Also, the misdiagnosis of Odens chipped knee cap, which, IMHO ultimately led to the cracking and breaking of his patella this season, also has me wondering and questioning.

Batum and Rudy --- eh.....I can understand.

Pendergraph is fine, shit happens in his situation.

Trout and Joel - Shit happens.

 

[THE HCP]

NO, because I am not qualified to.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Did Blake return after a shoulder injury last season only to re-aggravate it his first game back? I seem to recall this, but I'm not 100% certain.

 

[Nikolokolus]

One would think the sheer volume of injuries would give you good reason to question.

If the injuries were at all similar then I guess you could start to look at training and treatment methods, but really the rash of injuries this year feels like a massive outlier; there's no pattern, there's no reason and ultimately there are no preventative measures.

Shit happens -- and this year it happens all the time.

 

[illmatic99]

I was listening to the BS report w/ Bill Simmons and Chad Ford a few weeks ago, and both of those guys kept mentioning how Roy was flagged by quite a few teams' medical staffs prior to the draft and dropped to #6 (mostly due to his knee issues during his junior year @ UW). Anyway, this conversation was derived from talk about Blair's knee problems and how the Spurs took a risk. Although Simmons chimed in that the Blazers with all their financial resources had access to the best doctors to examine draft picks, maybe our injury troubles have more to do with KP's risky dealing, than our training staff?

(I'm definitely glad he picked Roy, though).

 

[BBert]

In regards to the issues cited above, aren't those things more a function of the training staff than the 'medical' staff? I'd question the trainers more than the doctors.

 

[Paxil]

Not sure. I think Martell's stress fracture should not have been as big as a deal as it was.

Probably more so I am curious as to whether the issues are coming up on the physicals they players get before we draft/trade for them. Many had isses that had to get taken care of before they played a game. Did we known about them and just ignore it? To we not know about them?

 

[LittleAlex]

The only thing I question is how strong they are. They allowed B-Roy to decide when he could play. That was a mistake. A guy like Roy is going to try and come back at the first sign of recovery.

It's up to the medical staff to prevent them from hurting themselves. They dropped the ball this time. Hopefully they will be far more careful in the future.

 

[STOMP]

The only thing I question is how strong they are. They allowed B-Roy to decide when he could play. That was a mistake.

how do you know it was a mistake? Did he tear the hamstring or did he test it and find out that it's still strained? If it's the later and he didn't make it worse and only discovered it's going to take longer to come back then initially hoped, thats just how it goes. Rehabbing a hammy is not an exact science with a tried and true time line for recovery.

STOMP

 

[BlazerBeav]

Totally - they're paid to fix problems before they happen - right? With Paul Allen's money, we should be able to hire doctors so awesome that we never have any injuries!

 

[tlongII]

In regards to the issues cited above, aren't those things more a function of the training staff than the 'medical' staff? I'd question the trainers more than the doctors.

I guess the thread title is mis-worded then as I would include the training staff with the medical staff.

 

[hasoos]

how do you know it was a mistake? Did he tear the hamstring or did he test it and find out that it's still strained? If it's the later and he didn't make it worse and only discovered it's going to take longer to come back then initially hoped, thats just how it goes. Rehabbing a hammy is not an exact science with a tried and true time line for recovery.

STOMP

At the same time, Roy admitted he wasn't near 100%, which means he held out information from the medical staff and chose to play, because it was quite clear from the article the day before, he figured out that if he said anything negative the staff would not let him play. So he withheld info, and got hurt again. So if anything, I blame Roy on this one.

 

[LameR]

Nope.

 

[BBert]

I guess the thread title is mis-worded then as I would include the training staff with the medical staff.

Then, yes. I've wondered about the team's trainers for a long time: are they "old school" ... are they evolving with changing theories, treatments, and training approaches in modern sports medicine ... what? Not that we can blame three broken feet on them, LOL. Maybe we should also question Nike/Converse/Addidas.

 

[Further]

Yes I blame them. Regardless if that blame is totally deserved, I just don't trust them since the health of our team has suffered setback after setback.

In the NBA, often you see coaches get canned when their team loses more than expected. They might not be the cause of those losses, but they take the blame. It might be that there are injuries, arrests, player disputes, or a host of other issues, but in the end, the coach loses his job. Well, medical issue after medical issue, regardless of who is at fault, the blame lies on the medical and training staff, and they should be let go.

 

[Masbee]

Personally I have to admit that I DO. I'm sure they will make the argument that all of our injuries are just incredibly bad luck, but I'm just not willing to accept that. Let's look at a few questionable incidents:

1) Martell Webster breaking his foot early last season then returning only to break it again.

2) Greg Oden chipping his kneecap last season and then being told no scoping was necessary. Oden then returns this season and breaks the same kneecap.

3) Nic Batum complaining about shoulder discomfort over the summer with his National Team. He then participates in workouts with the Blazers until just before the season he has to undergo surgery and is lost for most of the year.

4) Brandon Roy showing discomfort with his hamstring and sits out a couple of games. Then he apparently comes back too soon, re-injures his hammy and is lost for who knows how long?

5) Jeff Pendergraph having hip surgery just before the start of the season. Could this have been done sooner?

6) Rudy's back issues. Why did it take so long to determine that surgery was necessary?



I just don't know about our staff? It's hard to believe that everything that has happened is just some ridiculous coincidence.

Fair or not - the medical and training staff is under a huge cloud as far as I am concerned.

Are they snakebit?

Are they competent?

I don't really care.

At this point we have a chronic, repeated series of "unfortunate" incidents where the medical and training staff was intimately involved in diagnosis, prescriptions and go orders.

At the very, very least, their competence should be questioned and analyzed.

In pro sports that is rarely done. Just the fact that a reasonable person in charge should launch an investigation is enough to seal the fate.

I think they all should be replaced. Doctors, surgeons, thearapists, trainers. Everybody.

I don't think it is much different than cleaning house when the coaching staff gets the axe for failing to win.

And the whole line that we can't have an opinion because we didn't go to Medical School is ABUSURD.

I can see FAILURE without a degree.

I can demand the team get the "Best" as a fan.

Do those "don't question the doctor" folks think every person who goes through medical school is EQUAL? Or, do you recognize that some are better than others - and some are much, much better than others.

I seriously doubt that our staff is the best there is at each thing they do. Let's get the best.

 

[LittleAlex]

how do you know it was a mistake? Did he tear the hamstring or did he test it and find out that it's still strained? If it's the later and he didn't make it worse and only discovered it's going to take longer to come back then initially hoped, thats just how it goes. Rehabbing a hammy is not an exact science with a tried and true time line for recovery.

STOMP

Have you ever heard of a hamstring injury that got better in less then a week?


Roy had admitted the day before that he was going to be careful what he told the staff so he could play the next game. Don't those guys read the fucking paper? There job is to be the voice of reason and tell a guy he can't go even if that player believes otherwise.


I also know it was a mistake via 20/20 hindsight where Roy re-injured it. In fact in an interview he said the pain was worse then it had been for the last week.

It sounds like Roy wanted to take a huge risk and the people the team pays to prevent that sort of thing didn't do their job.

Roy is at fault here. But the training staff isn't blameless. Far from it.

 

[STOMP]

Have you ever heard of a hamstring injury that got better in less then a week?

yes. In fact I've had that happen to me several times. Many times players complain of hamstring tightness and miss a game or two... you're way off base here.

Roy had admitted the day before that he was going to be careful what he told the staff so he could play the next game. Don't those guys read the fucking paper? There job is to be the voice of reason and tell a guy he can't go even if that player believes otherwise.

you are reading into things. Him saying he isn't going to give the training staff ammo to shut him down doesn't mean that he is necessarily hiding something. That he is saying this to media makes that very doubtful.

I also know it was a mistake via 20/20 hindsight where Roy re-injured it. In fact in an interview he said the pain was worse then it had been for the last week.

then that settles it doctor. Your wild ass speculations based on an interview right after the game confirms it.

It sounds like Roy wanted to take a huge risk and the people the team pays to prevent that sort of thing didn't do their job.

Roy is at fault here. But the training staff isn't blameless. Far from it.

the panic fests around here are so stupid. Us fans don't know shit and we won't know shit, yet some still want to point fingers and fire people based on the filtered keyhole view of the situation we're in on.

It is management's job to provide oversight for the medical staff and trainers, not the fans. Does anyone really think that they just blindly abstain from this responsibility or are unaware that their players have sustained a rash of injuries?

 

[Buzz Killington]

absolutely.

 

[hasoos]

yes. In fact I've had that happen to me several times. Many times players complain of hamstring tightness and miss a game or two... you're way off base here.

you are reading into things. Him saying he isn't going to give the training staff ammo to shut him down doesn't mean that he is necessarily hiding something. That he is saying this to media makes that very doubtful.

then that settles it doctor. Your wild ass speculations based on an interview right after the game confirms it.

the panic fests around here are so stupid. Us fans don't know shit and we won't know shit, yet some still want to point fingers and fire people based on the filtered keyhole view of the situation we're in on.

It is management's job to provide oversight for the medical staff and trainers, not the fans. Does anyone really think that they just blindly abstain from this responsibility or are unaware that their players have sustained a rash of injuries?

Man do you run around living in tunnel vision or something? It was so obvious through reading that Roy felt he had to tell the training staff what they wanted to hear in order for him to play. The whole point of using your brain to determine what has been going on is so you learn. If you choose to walk around in a tunnel and disregard all of the evidence put forward as to happen, then you are failing to learn. It was so easy to see that Roy was going to say what was needed in order to play.

Secondly for your comment about Hamstrings healing in a week. Yea they can if there is nothing done but resting and therapy. But Roy tried to go in practice several times in that time period. Rest means rest. Not practice.

 

[handiman]

It is management's job to provide oversight for the medical staff and trainers... Does anyone really think that they just blindly abstain from this responsibility...?

Actually, all the evidence we have at hand would suggest that's exactly what is happening, as crazy as it sounds.

 

[STOMP]

the whole line that we can't have an opinion because we didn't go to Medical School is ABUSURD.

you can have an opinion on the medical situation of a team or most anything else in the world... I never said you couldn't. It certainly doesn't take wisdom/knowledge or experience to hold an opinion. I wouldn't expect anyone associated with the Blazers to take you seriously unless you've got more perspective and expertise then you're letting on. Can you name one of their doctors or therapists without looking them up on the internet? How do you know that their guys aren't the best? Do you think an effective way to... demand the team get the "Best" as a fan is to make posts on a chatsite? DO YOU THINK TYPING IN ALL CAPS MAKE YOUR WORDS CARRY MORE WEIGHT?

my Pops actually is a Doc here in town at St Vincents and has made passing comments to me about their staff having good people. But he doesn't work with them on a daily basis. He hasn't seen how they're handling the guy's situations. Despite being a huge Blazer fan and a Doctor, I wouldn't take his view on the Blazer medical situation as gospel either.

I'd hope that management holds questions about their staff (medical and overall) each and every year. It's their job after all. That they are actually in place to observe and question them makes them infinitely more qualified to intelligently critique the situation then some random fan.

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Actually, all the evidence we have at hand would suggest that's exactly what is happening, as crazy as it sounds.

I suspect the reason we fans have no evidence is because how ape shit we get with the little kernels of knowledge we occasionally do stumble across or (more likely) imagine we have. I'd suspect that we aren't in on the conversations on the inner workings of the team is completely by design.

For instance, how aware are we as to how many medical staff they employ? Whats been the turnover? Has anyone been fired? Who is the longest tenured staff Doctor?

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Man do you run around living in tunnel vision or something? It was so obvious through reading that Roy felt he had to tell the training staff what they wanted to hear in order for him to play. The whole point of using your brain to determine what has been going on is so you learn. If you choose to walk around in a tunnel and disregard all of the evidence put forward as to happen, then you are failing to learn. It was so easy to see that Roy was going to say what was needed in order to play.

yeah if only I weres a smart like hasoos. Then my tunnel wouldn t brain my failng.

STOMP

 

[Further]

I work up at OHSU in a lab. I work primarily with PhD's, not MD's, but I do interact with both. One thing I have learned working up here is how amazing some of them are, and how absolutely crappy others are. From the outside, it is hard to understand how wide a gap there is from doctor to doctor. Just because someone went through med school does not mean they are good. Hopefully, the Blazer medical staff is comprised of quality doctors, but i just don't know this to be the case. I don't think any of us have enough information to judge the medical staff to be competent or incompetent, but we do have a prolonged period of time where the Blazers suffered many more injuries than is normal. I would like to get some new medical staff because this group has not proved to me that they are able to keep the team healthy. That does not mean the health problems are their fault, just that I want another staff to take their shot at keeping the Blazers healthy.