Do you still believe in Sunshine?

[Driew]

He just needs for the coach to set up his shots better. This will be a make-or-break season for Luke Babbitt.

Crazy that the actual Babbit is still in the league haha

 

[Pinwheel1]

Layman can't dribble or pass. So far, he hasn't been able to shoot. His shooting has improved in SL, but the data points are limited.

I guess it is all relative. Compared to our past SF's Harkless, Aminu or Crabbe his dribbling looks pretty good. Maybe compared to others he is average. But like I mentioned above the fact he grabbed a rebound Tuesday and "dribbled" the length of the floor and scored without turning it over was a nice change to see from one of our forwards. His passing his also better than those 3.

 

[Scalma]

Layman can't dribble or pass. So far, he hasn't been able to shoot. His shooting has improved in SL, but the data points are limited.

I guess it is all relative. Compared to our past SF's Harkless, Aminu or Crabbe his dribbling looks pretty good. Maybe compared to others he is average. But like I mentioned above the fact he grabbed a rebound Tuesday and "dribbled" the length of the floor and scored without turning it over was a nice change to see from one of our forwards. His passing his also better than those 3.

Yeah his dribbling is superior to Aminu and Harkless. He’s also more athletic than Connaughton (on the court, don’t care about combine numbers)

When he played in the g league two seasons ago he showed a more all around skill set, similar to what he’s done so far in Vegas.

 

[Drttimmy]

I'm not sure if Layman has done enough in Summer League to confirm he's ready for a role in the rotation, but I think we should audition him anyway. At some point, we have to find out what he is. Vonleh got that chance his first year with us. He bombed and at least we figured out he wasn't worth a 2nd contract. Personally, I think he's stands a better chance than Vonleh since he (if realizing his potential) serves a critical need as a 3D guy. 3D might be our most critical missing piece....unless we end up missing Ed Davis more. What do we lose if we start him the first 30 games and give him 20 minutes a night? 3rd seed vs the 8th? I'd argue taking the chance to elevate the team is worth a seeding drop...especially when the end result of 3rd or 8th would likely be the same. He may be a bit like Batum. Batum needed to start and get consistent minutes to be productive, otherwise he was invisible in spot minutes.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not sure if Layman has done enough in Summer League to confirm he's ready for a role in the rotation, but I think we should audition him anyway. At some point, we have to find out what he is. Vonleh got that chance his first year with us. He bombed and at least we figured out he wasn't worth a 2nd contract. Personally, I think he's stands a better chance than Vonleh since he (if realizing his potential) serves a critical need as a 3D guy. 3D might be our most critical missing piece....unless we end up missing Ed Davis more. What do we lose if we start him the first 30 games and give him 20 minutes a night? 3rd seed vs the 8th? I'd argue taking the chance to elevate the team is worth a seeding drop...especially when the end result of 3rd or 8th would likely be the same. He may be a bit like Batum. Batum needed to start and get consistent minutes to be productive, otherwise he was invisible in spot minutes.

Batum, was productive?

I thought the biggest issue was inconsistency, or lack of consistent production? Shit if he could have just been his potential, we might have gone to the finals with LMA and Rolo...

 

[riverman]

Layman can't dribble or pass.

yes he can...he can actually finish a fast break...the guy has a solid all around game set of skills...check out his lack of turnovers...he dribbles better than Wes Mathews ever will and plays a pretty smart game.

 

[riverman]

I'm not sure if Layman has done enough in Summer League to confirm he's ready for a role in the rotation, but I think we should audition him anyway. At some point, we have to find out what he is. Vonleh got that chance his first year with us. He bombed and at least we figured out he wasn't worth a 2nd contract. Personally, I think he's stands a better chance than Vonleh since he (if realizing his potential) serves a critical need as a 3D guy. 3D might be our most critical missing piece....unless we end up missing Ed Davis more. What do we lose if we start him the first 30 games and give him 20 minutes a night? 3rd seed vs the 8th? I'd argue taking the chance to elevate the team is worth a seeding drop...especially when the end result of 3rd or 8th would likely be the same. He may be a bit like Batum. Batum needed to start and get consistent minutes to be productive, otherwise he was invisible in spot minutes.

CJ..Connaughton Barton..Crabbe...all found their game 3rd year

 

[Chris Craig]

Well he's better than Connaughton. But only by a little bit.

Is he? Really?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm not sure if Layman has done enough in Summer League to confirm he's ready for a role in the rotation, but I think we should audition him anyway. A.

I think that is fair to say because you never know until they go up against the big boys. However he has been on "fire".

https://www.testudotimes.com/maryla...trail-blazers-nba-summer-league-stats-results

 

[Wizard Mentor]

yes he can...he can actually finish a fast break...the guy has a solid all around game set of skills...check out his lack of turnovers...he dribbles better than Wes Mathews ever will and plays a pretty smart game.

He's long, he's strong, he glides, he dishes, he drives....
In 75 minutes of SL play, he has ZERO assists. He has 2 full years of NBA experience.

 

[riverman]

He's long, he's strong, he glides, he dishes, he drives....
In 75 minutes of SL play, he has ZERO assists. He has 2 full years of NBA experience.

He's not a guard....he doesn't have the ball most of the time...summer league is like G league...guards shoot all the time

 

[Wizard Mentor]

He's not a guard....he doesn't have the ball most of the time...summer league is like G league...guards shoot all the time

I hear what your saying, but you really either have trouble understanding the number zero or are having trouble understanding the number 75. Ed Davis, who rarely has his hands on the ball on the offensive end of the court averaged 1 assist every 38 minutes, on a team with horribly low assist numbers. SL or no, Jake can't pass.

 

[Pinwheel1]

He's long, he's strong, he glides, he dishes, he drives....
In 75 minutes of SL play, he has ZERO assists. He has 2 full years of NBA experience.

The summer league team is undefeated, and has had no problem scoring. So wtf cares? I saw him make a beautiful pass to a wide open Simons who missed the shot. Is that Jake's fault too? The ball movement has been just fine.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The summer league team is undefeated, and has had no problem scoring. So wtf cares? I saw him make a beautiful pass to a wide open Simons who missed the shot. Is that Jake's fault too? The ball movement has been just fine.

I'm sure Yinka Dare's mother says the exact same thing.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm sure Yinka Dare's mother says the exact same thing.

You seem to be equating No assists with Not passing. Jake rarely holds on to the ball. He often gets rid of it immediately. I see good ball movement out there.

 

[Drttimmy]

I hear what your saying, but you really either have trouble understanding the number zero or are having trouble understanding the number 75. Ed Davis, who rarely has his hands on the ball on the offensive end of the court averaged 1 assist every 38 minutes, on a team with horribly low assist numbers. SL or no, Jake can't pass.

I'm not sure that comparison helps your point. Ed Davis will average 2 assists over 2 games and Jake zero. They both sound lousy, but do we really care? If Ed Davis is averaging 8 boards and providing toughness, and Layman is spreading the court knocking down 40% of his threes, then I think they're both doing their jobs and being assets. If the devil's deal is Layman will average 40% from the 3 point line and less than 1 assist per game, I think I take it. As it is, he averages 23% so basically everything about him is ugly or meh. But if he can reach that 40% mark and not be abused on defense, I think he becomes valuable despite everything else.

 

[TBpup]

If he keeps shooting like he has been in SL (12-18.... .667) so far, they will have to find a spot for him. He is on fire!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I'm not sure that comparison helps your point. Ed Davis will average 2 assists over 2 games and Jake zero. They both sound lousy, but do we really care? If Ed Davis is averaging 8 boards and providing toughness, and Layman is spreading the court knocking down 40% of his threes, then I think they're both doing their jobs and being assets. If the devil's deal is Layman will average 40% from the 3 point line and less than 1 assist per game, I think I take it. As it is, he averages 23% so basically everything about him is ugly or meh. But if he can reach that 40% mark and not be abused on defense, I think he becomes valuable despite everything else.

I'm not sure that comparison helps your point. Ed Davis will average 2 assists over 2 games and Jake zero. They both sound lousy, but do we really care? If Ed Davis is averaging 8 boards and providing toughness, and Layman is spreading the court knocking down 40% of his threes, then I think they're both doing their jobs and being assets. If the devil's deal is Layman will average 40% from the 3 point line and less than 1 assist per game, I think I take it. As it is, he averages 23% so basically everything about him is ugly or meh. But if he can reach that 40% mark and not be abused on defense, I think he becomes valuable despite everything else.

What helps my point is that I again watched Layman play. When he didn't shoot, he held the ball, and then passed it to a covered player.

Now he did shoot great, and if we want him to sit in the corner, he'll be great.

 

[Pinwheel1]

What helps my point is that I again watched Layman play. When he didn't shoot, he held the ball, and then passed it to a covered player.

Now he did shoot great, and if we want him to sit in the corner, he'll be great.

Well I wouldn't mind the number of dunks he has been making either.
And the passes he makes to the covered players might be because no one else is open? At least the passes get to them.

 

[BonesJones]

Name me 3 in the league that are making less than $15 mil/year.

Bazemore is making $18, and I'm not sure he can dribble or pass. If I remember right, you don't like him. What to do?

How about 9?
Will Barton
Joe Ingles
Andre Iguodala
Denzel Valentine
Tyreke Evans
Khris Middleton
Kyle Anderson (Shooting is iffy)
Caris LeVert (Shooting is iffy)
Tomas Satoransky

 

[theprunetang]

How about 9?
Will Barton
Joe Ingles
Andre Iguodala
Denzel Valentine
Tyreke Evans
Khris Middleton
Kyle Anderson (Shooting is iffy)
Caris LeVert (Shooting is iffy)
Tomas Satoransky

Joe Ingles

Never mind. He makes more than I thought.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

How about 9?
Will Barton
Joe Ingles
Andre Iguodala
Denzel Valentine
Tyreke Evans
Khris Middleton
Kyle Anderson (Shooting is iffy)
Caris LeVert (Shooting is iffy)
Tomas Satoransky

Some on your list are suspect, I'm too tired to check out which of these make less than $15 mil and can actually shoot dribble and pass.

@SlyPokerDog think we should simply go out and get someone who can shoot, dribble, and pass. So, which of the 9 are available? Not Barton, Ingles, Iggy, Anderson for sure. The rest are doubtful.

 

[1eyejack]

An actual SF who can dribble, pass and shoot? The hell you say....

Only concern I have is his lateral quickness on defense. Seen several times where he’s almost fallen over trying to move laterally. But love what I’m seeing from the rest of his game. Confidence seems to be a problem with him and the coach believing in him

 

[JoshuaHall]

How about 9?
Will Barton
Joe Ingles
Andre Iguodala
Denzel Valentine
Tyreke Evans
Khris Middleton
Kyle Anderson (Shooting is iffy)
Caris LeVert (Shooting is iffy)
Tomas Satoransky

Tyreke and Dre are known non-shooters... ??

They are both below league average from 3 for there respective careers.

 

[Natebishop3]

Layman looks like a completely different player.

 

[theprunetang]

The thing with Jake is that he has always been a very fluid athlete. Most of the things he does look great. But, he just couldn't hit a shot to save his life.

If his shot starts going in like this, he can be a pretty helpful player to have.

 

[BonesJones]

Tyreke and Dre are known non-shooters... ??

They are both below league average from 3 for there respective careers.

Tyreke has developed into a 37% 3pt shooter and Iggy is an average shooter and elite in the other areas.

 

[mook]

Aminu seems welded to the PF position under Stotts. So really the only competition Layman faces for minutes is ET and Harkless. I think Baldwin beats out ET for ball handling duties on the second unit (he's not as good, but Stotts will favor the younger guy with the far better outside shot).

So it seems really likely that Layman will have an excellent chance to compete for major minutes and potentially the starting job at Small Forward.

It's weird to think Harkless could lose the starting job to Layman, but it's certainly a possibility. Mo had the knee injury and wasn't much of a factor after March. He's never been Mr Consistency.

And Layman just looks really hungry right now.

 

[jlprk]

He seems to shoot well in rhythm, but not ad hoc when discombobulated. In regular season, he shoots from way out, while in 2018 SL, he has a more varied offense and has looked better (not 2017 SL, though). I think this is illusory and in regular season, he'll be the same as before. I wish Olshey would have let him go. Sunshine blond surfer boy is fool's gold.

 

[theprunetang]

He seems to shoot well in rhythm, but not ad hoc when discombobulated. In regular season, he shoots from way out, while in 2018 SL, he has a more varied offense and has looked better (not 2017 SL, though). I think this is illusory and in regular season, he'll be the same as before. I wish Olshey would have let him go. Sunshine blond surfer boy is fool's gold.

I'm pulling a Fox Mulder on Layman: I want to believe.

He has great athleticism, foot speed, length, etc. His problem has been just making shots. If he can figure that part out, he will be a rotation player. It's a gargantuan question though.

I gave up on him during his 2nd year, but if he proves himself this year, I'm fully on the Jake-waggon.