Does Joel get favoritism in offense over Oden

[hasoos]

A friend of mine sent me a link to a tweet on a subject we were talking about last night, as we had wondered if we were the only ones that had noticed that Joel is more favored in the offense and get more passes thrown to him than Greg Oden does. In games all the time, I see Greg get open, and sometimes it seems guys stare right at him and don't throw him the ball. Blake does it. Brandon does it. Outlaw did it before being hurt, but I just attributed it to Outlaw being a black hole. Then Joel comes into the game, and he will be in traffic and guys will be literally forcing the ball to him when he has some of the worst hands on the whole team. Yet Oden can' get a pass when he is wide open. It is almost to the point where I wonder if there is some bad Ju-Ju going on in the locker room.

Thoughts?

 

[magnifier661]

A friend of mine sent me a link to a tweet on a subject we were talking about last night, as we had wondered if we were the only ones that had noticed that Joel is more favored in the offense and get more passes thrown to him than Greg Oden does. In games all the time, I see Greg get open, and sometimes it seems guys stare right at him and don't throw him the ball. Blake does it. Brandon does it. Outlaw did it before being hurt, but I just attributed it to Outlaw being a black hole. Then Joel comes into the game, and he will be in traffic and guys will be literally forcing the ball to him when he has some of the worst hands on the whole team. Yet Oden can' get a pass when he is wide open. It is almost to the point where I wonder if there is some bad Ju-Ju going on in the locker room.

Thoughts?

I've seen it too. Oden really working hard to get in the post. Almost like the play is, dribble like you are going to post entry to Oden. If Oden isn't open in .3 milliseconds, pass it back to the top of the key and ISO. (Obviously over exaggerating here, but you get the point)

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

A friend of mine sent me a link to a tweet on a subject we were talking about last night, as we had wondered if we were the only ones that had noticed that Joel is more favored in the offense and get more passes thrown to him than Greg Oden does. In games all the time, I see Greg get open, and sometimes it seems guys stare right at him and don't throw him the ball. Blake does it. Brandon does it. Outlaw did it before being hurt, but I just attributed it to Outlaw being a black hole. Then Joel comes into the game, and he will be in traffic and guys will be literally forcing the ball to him when he has some of the worst hands on the whole team. Yet Oden can' get a pass when he is wide open. It is almost to the point where I wonder if there is some bad Ju-Ju going on in the locker room.

Thoughts?

I've seen it. I think it comes down to turnovers. Nate has that team so anal about not committing turnovers. I think some feel if they pass it down to him, he is a turnover bound to happen. Joel doesn't have the hand and control problems and there is less fear there with him turning it over.

 

[hasoos]

I've seen it. I think it comes down to turnovers. Nate has that team so anal about not committing turnovers. I think some feel if they pass it down to him, he is a turnover bound to happen. Joel doesn't have the hand and control problems is there is less fear there with him.

I know he has had some problems, with the Atlanta game being a 4 turnoer game. But before that in his previous 4, he has 1 tunover out of 4 games. I also don't buy the Joel argument. I call him Joel "Hands of Stone" Pryzbilla for a reason. He has a really hard time catching entry passes and finishing unless they are exactly perfect, and he still might not get it. He is good at rebounding his miss and getting another chance however, as he works the boards well.

 

[Jayps15]

I've seen it. I think it comes down to turnovers. Nate has that team so anal about not committing turnovers. I think some feel if they pass it down to him, he is a turnover bound to happen. Joel doesn't have the hand and control problems and there is less fear there with him turning it over.

Boy I hope not, Joel's 25.7% TOV% leads the team. Greg at 20.7 isn't great, but he's still better than Pryz.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

I call him Joel "Hands of Stone" Pryzbilla for a reason. He has a really hard time catching entry passes and finishing unless they are exactly perfect, and he still might not get it. He is good at rebounding his miss and getting another chance however, as he works the boards well.

That might be the case but I still think the team trusts Joel a lil more down in the post than they do Greg which is why they are more willing to throw it down to him.

 

[Ed O]

It seems to me that teammates trust him less, yes. BUT... Oden gets a lot more plays called for him. Whether that is a function of his teammates' reluctance or simply the coaches' efforts to get Greg involved is unclear to me.

Ed O.

 

[hasoos]

It seems to me that teammates trust him less, yes. BUT... Oden gets a lot more plays called for him. Whether that is a function of his teammates' reluctance or simply the coaches' efforts to get Greg involved is unclear to me.

Ed O.

I will give you that, that he does have plays called for him. But it is also true that when Nate calls plays, the team tends to stop and do what he says, almost to a fault IMO. Sometimes when defenses break down, you just need to make the right play. Any 7 footer under the hoop alone should get a pass. Whether its Joel or Oden. I just don't see a turnover coming from either one of them, if they are alone under the hoop.

 

[BBert]

There was a play at the end of the game last night where Greg and Joel were both under the basket when Roy drove into the key. The proper pass would have been to Greg. He would have had a clear flush, he's better at it than Joel, and Joel was too far under the basket. Of course Roy passed it to Joel instead of Greg. IIRC Joel missed (I'm not sure). Either way, it was the wrong decision. I think of all the players on the team, Roy may be the worst offender in refusing to pass the ball to Greg. Miller is obviously the best. Now coach is talking like he's going to relegate Miller to running the bench unit? Unbelievable.

 

[elcap15]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

He doesn't?

 

[hasoos]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

I will watch this more, because you know I never really noticed. But it still doesn't really speak to why they never throw him the ball when he is wide open. There isn't going to be any pass coming out of that sitaution.

 

[BBert]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

I haven't seen that. Greg is a good passer. He'll pass out of a double team. He does get stripped (often as the result of getting raked across the arms, with no foul called).

You may have a point though, if Roy doesn't pass to Greg because he doesn't want him to shoot it, and wants the ball back instead. If Roy were to pass and cut, there is a good chance Oden would pass it back, IMO. Maybe the SF passing and cutting isn't in Nate's play book?

But as hasoos says, I have seen Greg wide open many times and he just doesn't get the ball -- unless it is clearly a post up play called by Nate or Miller -- in which case he isn't wide open.

 

[alex42083]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

I've seen Greg plenty of times being a willing passer when the double team comes, or if he sees a cutter. I don't think he's a guy who forces things just to get some shots up. He and Andre have hooked up a lot when Andre cuts to the hoop. Haven't seen it with the other guys though since no one else really cuts to the basket.

 

[Jayps15]

Could it be because Oden doesnt pass the ball out of the post?

This isn't really about post up touches, or at least I don't think any reasonable fan would say the team looks for Joel more with his back to the basket. It's about catch and finish plays in the paint, drop of passes from driving guards, bullet passes when a defender is lost, and the pick and roll. On those type of plays it's been my observation that the team utilizes Joel much much better than Oden.

 

[elcap15]

Not many young centers really know how to utilize a post - repost offensive set.

 

[elcap15]

This isn't really about post up touches, or at least I don't think any reasonable fan would say the team looks for Joel more with his back to the basket. It's about catch and finish plays in the paint, drop of passes from driving guards, bullet passes when a defender is lost, and the pick and roll. On those type of plays it's been my observation that the team utilizes Joel much much better than Oden.

You gotta feed the big dog, if you want him to guard the porch

 

[RR7]

There was a play at the end of the game last night where Greg and Joel were both under the basket when Roy drove into the key. The proper pass would have been to Greg. He would have had a clear flush, he's better at it than Joel, and Joel was too far under the basket. Of course Roy passed it to Joel instead of Greg. IIRC Joel missed (I'm not sure). Either way, it was the wrong decision. I think of all the players on the team, Roy may be the worst offender in refusing to pass the ball to Greg. Miller is obviously the best. Now coach is talking like he's going to relegate Miller to running the bench unit? Unbelievable.

It was Aldridge, not Joel. I believe he got fouled by Stuckey on the play and hit both FTs.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

This isn't really about post up touches, or at least I don't think any reasonable fan would say the team looks for Joel more with his back to the basket. It's about catch and finish plays in the paint, drop of passes from driving guards, bullet passes when a defender is lost, and the pick and roll. On those type of plays it's been my observation that the team utilizes Joel much much better than Oden.

Patience...we've got to let Oden bake!

 

[andalusian]

I think I noticed it too - and I think, without doing in-depth analysis against the tape, that it is because Joel moves better without the ball. They seem to pass to Joel when he is moving, they seem to pass to Oden when he is stationary. Maybe I am wrong - but that's the impression I got.

 

[hasoos]

You gotta feed the big dog, if you want him to guard the porch

Exactly. And from what I have noticed, Oden performs much better on defense if you get him involved on offense.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yes.


This team is so misguided, it's not even funny.


I spoke to a friend of mine, who happens to be a scout for the Rockets, and he said "It amazes me that Portland doesn't take more of an advantage of Oden on offense when he is on the floor." He said, "They seem to favor the pick and roll with Przybilla, but can't seem to get away from their jump shooting offense when Oden is on the floor." (That is almost word for word)

He said teams attack Oden on defense for a reason, and it's because teams don't want to have to double him on offense and leave one of the others open.


So when I bitch about Nate, and others, it's not entirely uneducated bitching.

 

[BlazerWookee]

A friend of mine sent me a link to a tweet on a subject we were talking about last night, as we had wondered if we were the only ones that had noticed that Joel is more favored in the offense and get more passes thrown to him than Greg Oden does. In games all the time, I see Greg get open, and sometimes it seems guys stare right at him and don't throw him the ball. Blake does it. Brandon does it. Outlaw did it before being hurt, but I just attributed it to Outlaw being a black hole. Then Joel comes into the game, and he will be in traffic and guys will be literally forcing the ball to him when he has some of the worst hands on the whole team. Yet Oden can' get a pass when he is wide open. It is almost to the point where I wonder if there is some bad Ju-Ju going on in the locker room.

Thoughts?

Nobody defends Joel the way they defend Greg. There is always someone lurking near the passing lanes with an eye towards the ballhandler, looking to disrupt the entry pass to Greg. This gets even worse when our outside shooters aren't hitting. When Joel is on the floor, everybody plays their own man a little tighter because they know Joel isn't anywhere near the offensive threat that Greg is.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I will watch this more, because you know I never really noticed. But it still doesn't really speak to why they never throw him the ball when he is wide open. There isn't going to be any pass coming out of that sitaution.

Every time you see him open, freeze it and look at the other defensive players on the floor. Most of the time, there is someone near the passing lane with eyes locked on the ballhandler.

 

[hasoos]

Every time you see him open, freeze it and look at the other defensive players on the floor. Most of the time, there is someone near the passing lane with eyes locked on the ballhandler.

That is why they invented the lob. So the taller player can go get it, and smaller players cannot. Also I disagree with what you are saying. I have tickets at Mid Court at the perfect angle to see every play develope before it actually happens on the court. He is open a lot without getting passed to, and nobody in in the lane.

 

[ironcrotch]

I think it's because Joel doesn't get the attention from the opposing defense as Greg does.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes.


This team is so misguided, it's not even funny.


I spoke to a friend of mine, who happens to be a scout for the Rockets, and he said "It amazes me that Portland doesn't take more of an advantage of Oden on offense when he is on the floor." He said, "They seem to favor the pick and roll with Przybilla, but can't seem to get away from their jump shooting offense when Oden is on the floor." (That is almost word for word)

He said teams attack Oden on defense for a reason, and it's because teams don't want to have to double him on offense and leave one of the others open.


So when I bitch about Nate, and others, it's not entirely uneducated bitching.

Don't want to name drop, but I pay good money for an ex-nba player and coach to train my son one on one. Obviously, he is a Laker fan, since we do live 1 hour away from L.A., but when he heard I was a die hard Blazer fan, he started watching their games.

Last week, he almost said the same damn thing. It was like "Hey since you are so keen on the Blazers, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about (this being me saying how gloriously awesome my Blazers will fuck his team up). So I've watched the last 5 games (SAS, Minny, Memphis, Minny, Charlotte) and saw something really disturbing. I really thought Oden didn't have an inside game. I read the scouting reports that he was so raw on the offensive end, but that cat has great moves. Why aren't you going to him more?"

So I was telling him about foul trouble and Nate wanting him to be at full energy for the 4th. He said that's backwards thinking, especially when you have a 4th quarter player like Roy. He said big men set the tone of the game in the first 2 quarters. If you don't utilize them then, you can't open the game up for the perimeter players.

Anyways after a long convo, he told me we need a new coach. He doesn't think Nate is the right man for the job.

 

[BBert]

It was Aldridge, not Joel. I believe he got fouled by Stuckey on the play and hit both FTs.

Mmmm....could be! (I was watching a tiny choppy computer feed.) I still say he was too far under the basket and the correct pass was to Oden for the dunk.

 

[BBert]

The best I've seen the team look this year was when Miller was allowed to direct the offense. What was his favorite play? Feed the post.

It's elementary.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Don't want to name drop, but I pay good money for an ex-nba player and coach to train my son one on one. Obviously, he is a Laker fan, since we do live 1 hour away from L.A., but when he heard I was a die hard Blazer fan, he started watching their games.

Last week, he almost said the same damn thing. It was like "Hey since you are so keen on the Blazers, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about (this being me saying how gloriously awesome my Blazers will fuck his team up). So I've watched the last 5 games (SAS, Minny, Memphis, Minny, Charlotte) and saw something really disturbing. I really thought Oden didn't have an inside game. I read the scouting reports that he was so raw on the offensive end, but that cat has great moves. Why aren't you going to him more?"

So I was telling him about foul trouble and Nate wanting him to be at full energy for the 4th. He said that's backwards thinking, especially when you have a 4th quarter player like Roy. He said big men set the tone of the game in the first 2 quarters. If you don't utilize them then, you can't open the game up for the perimeter players.

Anyways after a long convo, he told me we need a new coach. He doesn't think Nate is the right man for the job.

I have more examples as well, and I think people would honestly be shocked at how "experts" feel about the job Nate has done with Oden and our offense.

It is backwards by the way. I coach at the elite level of Jr high and highschool, and I even know that you pound the paint early and often, and then let Brandon take over when the bigs are out of the game in the fourth.