Does VC + Losses = Turmoil?

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NJNetz

NJNetz

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ESPN’s Chris Sheridan thinks so. In a survey of 25 ESPN writers, editors and assorted experts, the Nets received two votes –that’s fifth– in the competition for the team “most likely to descend into turmoil”. Sheridan admits he’s one of those votes. “If they stink right from the get-go, there’s going to be one very unhappy superstar with the initials V.C. who is going to want out,” Sheridan tells TrueHoop
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I highly doubt it. This is a no pressure which is perfect for Vince
 
I think one of the big differences with what happened with Vince and the Raptors in 04 and Vince and the Nets in 08 is that there was the perception, at least on Vince's part, that management wasn't doing much or anything to win, that there was no light at the end of the tunnel.

That's not really the case here. Even though this season and probably next will be tough, the team is stockpiled with young talent, and no matter what you think of the rumors about 2010, it's provided some source of hope.
 
Real said:
I think one of the big differences with what happened with Vince and the Raptors in 04 and Vince and the Nets in 08 is that there was the perception, at least on Vince's part, that management wasn't doing much or anything to win, that there was no light at the end of the tunnel.

That's not really the case here. Even though this season and probably next will be tough, the team is stockpiled with young talent, and no matter what you think of the rumors about 2010, it's provided some source of hope.
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No, the difference is the Toronto fans expected Vince to save them and lead them.

In NJ, Vince just has to play
 
Real said:
I think one of the big differences with what happened with Vince and the Raptors in 04 and Vince and the Nets in 08 is that there was the perception, at least on Vince's part, that management wasn't doing much or anything to win, that there was no light at the end of the tunnel.

That's not really the case here. Even though this season and probably next will be tough, the team is stockpiled with young talent, and no matter what you think of the rumors about 2010, it's provided some source of hope.
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No, the difference is that Sam Mitchell felt that Vince wasn't a player that cared, Sam knew that Bosh was the player Raptors should build around and count on, and was benching VC at the end of games.

Nets are making Vince the leader of their team that not much is expected of, which is VC's meat.
 
i feel that if people really believe this, they did not watch vince last year.

he had every opportunity to vent his disgust and he did not. he could have demanded a trade, but he did not. he could have sat out the rest of the year with an injury, but he did not. he kept expressing that he wants to be here BECAUSE he continually says that "they picked me up when i was wounded" and he is forever grateful for that.

i think vince has matured lightyears ahead of what he was back in TO in 2004. Even if the team is a 34 win team (which they probably will be) I expect vince to stay positive and motivate the team.
 
I don't know why people insist on believing that Vince is the same person as he was four or five years ago. That's like saying that John McCain was the same! :lol:
 
MisterMontross said:
And you think McCain is not the same?
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He's not the Maverick he once was. He's "sold out" so to speak, and embraced catering to the whim of the Republican party in his attempt to become president.

There are many others on this forum that can speak on this issue better than me, though.
 
GMJ said:
He's not the Maverick he once was. He's "sold out" so to speak, and embraced catering to the whim of the Republican party in his attempt to become president.

There are many others on this forum that can speak on this issue better than me, though.
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Oh, he's the same, just learned how to present his bullcrap a little better.

He now has the entire Republican machine behind him now. Rove and crew. Here comes change. LOL!!!!
 
MisterMontross said:
Oh, he's the same, just learned how to present his bullcrap a little better.

He now has the entire Republican machine behind him now. Rove and crew. Here comes change. LOL!!!!
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eight years ago he ripped the religious right during his campaign. Now he is catering to them. Regardless, the point was just that people change over time. Maybe Vince was totally at fault five years ago in Toronto. Maybe he was a whining baby who demanded a trade, I really don't know. I do know, though, that as a Net he has never complained about anything, and rarely missed a game for any reason. he has also put up consistently tremendous stats. There are still reasons to be annoyed with him, but I am willing to believe that his somewhat erratic play last year was due to his injury. I am also willing to believe that his sometimes poor play in the playoffs has been in part due to the lack of ability of his teammates. I am also willing to believe that he will not be a cancer or demand a trade until proven wrong.

The only reason to be frustrated with him is that he doesn't have a super-killer instinct, but really how many people in the world do? he strikes me as just a normal, well-adjusted, introspective guy who happens to be a world-class athlete. He makes a great second banana, but unfortunately Kidd checked out early mentally. Kidd, I should point out, took far more games "off" over the past two years than Vince has. It just killed me when the Nets would get crushed and Kidd would just say "it just wasn't our night" or something like that. Kidd is the reason why their play was erratic--and the reason why the Mavericks' play was erratic once he arrived. He needs to look in the mirror. Vince will play better without Kidd than with him--you will see.
 
Dumpy said:
eight years ago he ripped the religious right during his campaign. Now he is catering to them. Regardless, the point was just that people change over time.
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Politicians change what they say, not what they are.

And they 'are' whatever benefits them most, personally.
 
MisterMontross said:
Politicians change what they say, not what they are.

And they 'are' whatever benefits them most, personally.
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to a great extent that is true, but now he is willing to pander to the right, and that will be crystallized when he makes his appointments for the heads of each government department and agency, who hold tremendous power.
 
Dumpy said:
to a great extent that is true, but now he is willing to pander to the right, and that will be crystallized when he makes his appointments for the heads of each government department and agency, who hold tremendous power.
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Pandering for his own benefit.
 
MisterMontross said:
Pandering for his own benefit.
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you're getting off-track. This is about Vince, and the ability of people to change their preferences, priorities, and even the way they react to certain situations and stimuli. I refuse to hold it against him what he may have said and did five years ago, just like I am not going to bitch about the Nets giving certain players a "fresh start" in their "fallen angels" program. Vince is who he is, and that is a damn fine player who happens to be a good guy. This year, at least on paper, he will be surrounded by the best (complete) set of teammates since becoming a Net. Maybe they don't have a big three anymore--but there will always be more better shooters on the floor with Vince, which should affect his play and the way he is defended. I, for one, am curious to see how it shakes out.
 
Dumpy said:
Vince is who he is, and that is a damn fine player who happens to be a good guy. This year, at least on paper, he will be surrounded by the best (complete) set of teammates since becoming a Net. Maybe they don't have a big three anymore--but there will always be more better shooters on the floor with Vince, which should affect his play and the way he is defended. I, for one, am curious to see how it shakes out.
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Best set of teammates? Really?

If you mean in the sense that this is now Vince's kind of team, then I agree.
 
MisterMontross said:
Best set of teammates? Really?

If you mean in the sense that this is now Vince's kind of team, then I agree.
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No, I mean in the sense of #5-#14 on the roster, as a whole, is superior than the #5-#14 slots in any other year.

edit: let's make that #5-#13. Swift and Ager are garbage. I am putting Hassell as #13 on the depth chart, and he is at least as good as players who started the season inactive in the past, like Hassan Adams for instance.
 
Dumpy said:
No, I mean in the sense of #5-#14 on the roster, as a whole, is superior than the #5-#14 slots in any other year.
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You're talking about a team with 3 rookies, 5 players who's were no longer wanred by the team they played for last year, Stromile Swift, Trenton Hassell & Maurice Ager. And SWat hasn't proven he's a player.

That's #4-#15.
 
yes, I am. But I agree about Ager and Swift--see my edit above.
 
I also agree about Sean Williams, but he would be matched up against someone like Malik Allen and Jabari Smith in this game
 
The reason why things went sour between Vince and the Raptors was because in the off-season of 2004 the Raptors management (see:Richard Peddie) promised Vince to keep him in the loop of the direction of the team with the hiring of a new GM and take his input on it seriously. But they never did. Raptors management admitted they handled the situation badly and Vince didn't like it and asked for a trade which he went public with later on in the off-season.
 
i really believe in VC... and i think this is the perfect situation for him, and it gives him a chance to prove himself to the NBA
 
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