Donald Trump: I've got my birth certificate, where President Barack Obama's?

[Shooter]

As jlprk pointed out, you are assigning his entire legal expenses to this one issue, incorrectly.

As I originally said, Obama has spent over $1 million in legal fees to defend himself against the "birth certificate" suits. This is a pretty reasonable figure, considering that at least 12 suits have been brought on this subject, each incurring its own costs. And since the article I quoted is from 2009, it's quite reasonable to assume that the total fees paid to Perkins Coie have gone up substantially.

Where is the evidence that he has 'a whole legal team devoted to this issue'?

From the article I quoted:

Lawyers trying to kill a similar California lawsuit filed on behalf of Ambassador Alan Keyes also said they would seek sanctions against the plaintiff's attorneys in that case unless they left the issue of the president's eligibility alone.

"Lawyers" (plural) suggests that he has more than one working on this issue, wouldn't you agree?

But let's go back to the original question, which you have ignored:

"If producing his birth certificate is a non-issue, why has Obama spent over $1 million trying to keep it hidden? What is he trying to hide?"

Ignoring the costs involved, for the moment, why is Obama fighting this at all? Why doesn't he just produce his birth certificate and be done with it? That's what Chris Matthews has suggested he do.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why would Obama bother to fight these lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise? It only feeds the speculation. If he loses one of these lawsuits, all he has to do is produce the information he's already provided on his www site.

 

[barfo]

As I originally said, Obama has spent over $1 million in legal fees to defend himself against the "birth certificate" suits.

Yes, you originally said that. Well, not so originally, but you did repeat it. And now you've repeated it again. But you don't have any factual basis, you just want to believe it.

This is a pretty reasonable figure, considering that at least 12 suits have been brought on this subject, each incurring its own costs.

You don't know the details of the suits or how they were handled, so what is your basis for assigning a dollar figure?

And since the article I quoted is from 2009, it's quite reasonable to assume that the total fees paid to Perkins Coie have gone up substantially.

No it's not. It's quite reasonable to assume that none of the suits have gone anywhere at all since that time. If any of the suits actually had any legal traction, it would be big news. It isn't.

From the article I quoted:


"Lawyers" (plural) suggests that he has more than one working on this issue, wouldn't you agree?

I think you are reaching so far you are about to topple over. But don't worry, maybe Obama will get an illicit blowjob, and then you'll have him nailed.

But let's go back to the original question, which you have ignored:

"If producing his birth certificate is a non-issue, why has Obama spent over $1 million trying to keep it hidden? What is he trying to hide?"

Why won't you stop beating your wife?

Ignoring the costs involved, for the moment, why is Obama fighting this at all? Why doesn't he just produce his birth certificate and be done with it? That's what Chris Matthews has suggested he do.

Why don't you just stop beating your wife?

barfo

 

[barfo]

Why would Obama bother to fight these lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise? It only feeds the speculation. If he loses one of these lawsuits, all he has to do is produce the information he's already provided on his www site.

What credible source says he's fighting these lawsuits? Sending 'go away or you will pay' letters is the standard response to frivolous lawsuits.

As for feeding the speculation, why should he even care? If anything it helps him by pointing out what utter loons the opposition are.

barfo

 

[Shooter]

As for feeding the speculation, why should he even care? If anything it helps him by pointing out what utter loons the opposition are.

Hardly. The longer this issue drags on, the more doubts it raises in people's minds. The real way to show that the opposition are "utter loons" is to provide the document proving his U.S. birth--which the opposition says doesn't exist.

 

[Denny Crane]

What credible source says he's fighting these lawsuits? Sending 'go away or you will pay' letters is the standard response to frivolous lawsuits.

As for feeding the speculation, why should he even care? If anything it helps him by pointing out what utter loons the opposition are.

barfo

The cases are going to court and judges are ruling on them. He is defending the cases, not sending out letters.

I just find it curious. He's got nothing to lose, after all. He may have some political gain to make the birthers look like fools.

 

[barfo]

The cases are going to court and judges are ruling on them. He is defending the cases, not sending out letters.

Not really. There have been 74 cases. Obama has defended in 3 of those. Two of the three, the plaintiffs were ordered to pay the legal fees. So at most he's paid to defend one court case (the most well-known case, Berg vs Obama).

So far, 73 of the 74 lawsuits have been rejected. One is pending.

A wealth of details about the cases is here.

barfo

 

[Shooter]

I just find it curious. He's got nothing to lose, after all. He may have some political gain to make the birthers look like fools.

The Clintons had an old trick they used to pull once in awhile. When a negative story was about to break on Bill, they would put out an even worse story--and when that story was proven false, the real story would look a lot less important by comparison.

If Obama does in fact have a valid long-form U.S. birth certificate, perhaps he's going to release it right before the 2012 election to give himself a big boost in the polls--and thus make all of his critics look foolish. It seems too Machiavellian to be true, but who knows?

 

[mook]

I think Obama would rather have the right talking about his birth certificate than the size of government or the economy.

The only people who care about the whole birth certificate thing aren't voting for him anyway. We learned that in 2008. So let them stay distracted.

If we're playing the Lakers and Ron Artest decides to announce right before the game that Greg Oden is a Klingon, I'm perfectly happy to have Oden not try to clear the issue up. It makes no difference to the Blazers game plan, and has the outside chance of being a distraction to the opponent.

 

[Paxil]

I believe you have to represent yourself in lawsuits... did he ever lose a suit? No... of course not.

And as for why he doesn't just produce it... it would do NOTHING to stop people from doubting. It isn't a good idea to argue with crazy people. Some people are going to believe we didn't go to the moon and our own government blew up the towers regardless of how many facts are produced.

http://xkcd.com/258/

 

[Denny Crane]

I believe you have to represent yourself in lawsuits... did he ever lose a suit? No... of course not.

And as for why he doesn't just produce it... it would do NOTHING to stop people from doubting. It isn't a good idea to argue with crazy people. Some people are going to believe we didn't go to the moon and our own government blew up the towers regardless of how many facts are produced.

http://xkcd.com/258/

You don't have to defend any lawsuit but you can expect a summary judgment against you.

Which is my point.

Lose the case because there's no point in defending it. No fear of complying with the court's remedy.

 

[PapaG]

So, since I had to provide my daughters' official birth certificate for softball this year, does this mean that they are satisfying the Crazy People of Little League Baseball?

 

[Minstrel]

If Obama does in fact have a valid long-form U.S. birth certificate, perhaps he's going to release it right before the 2012 election to give himself a big boost in the polls--and thus make all of his critics look foolish. It seems too Machiavellian to be true, but who knows?

I don't think he'll ever release it. I have a valid US birth certificate and, if I were in his place, I would never release it. Why? Because very little of America cares and any time the Republicans spend on the issue is wasted for them and makes them look silly.

In other words, Obama has no incentive to put the issue to rest. Why not let the sillier element of conservatives waste their time looking silly?

 

[Minstrel]

So, since I had to provide my daughters' official birth certificate for softball this year, does this mean that they are satisfying the Crazy People of Little League Baseball?

If you had already fulfilled the rules for proving your daughters' identities and ages and a group of Little League baseball officials kept harassing you and your daughters, claiming that they were actually from Guatemala because you hadn't produced a specific document that small group wants, yes, they'd be crazy.

 

[Paxil]

So, since I had to provide my daughters' official birth certificate for softball this year, does this mean that they are satisfying the Crazy People of Little League Baseball?

The motive for requesting the document is a bit different I think.

I honestly don't think the right really even wants truth... leaving it out there provides much more fuel to people who feed on it. Let's see... he is al qaeda because his name is Obama... wait no he is not even a citizen... no wait he is a Socialist (because that is a scary word even though we don't know what it means).

 

[Shooter]

And as for why he doesn't just produce it... it would do NOTHING to stop people from doubting. It isn't a good idea to argue with crazy people.

Speaking of crazy people, you sound like one of them. That "argument" you just made makes no sense at all. If Obama has a valid birth certificate which can be authenticated by the hospital where he was born, it would immediately put this whole issue to rest. The so-called "crazy people" would then be discredited in everyone's eyes, and they'd have to give up their case.

I'm really stunned by the arguments liberals put forth to defend Obama's stalling on this issue. If George Bush were refusing to produce a birth certificate, the Left would be up in arms and screaming, "What is he trying to hide?"

 

[Shooter]

A few more documents that Obama is refusing to release (all of them are typically available for major political leaders):

His kindergarten records
His Punahou school records
His Occidental College records
His Columbia University records
His Columbia thesis
His Harvard Law School records
His Harvard Law Review articles
His scholarly articles from the University of Chicago
His passport
His medical records
His files from his years as an Illinois state senator
His Illinois State Bar Association records
Any baptism records
Any adoption records

 

[Minstrel]

The so-called "crazy people" would then be discredited in everyone's eyes, and they'd have to give up their case.

They already are discredited in almost everyone's eyes and I, personally, don't want them to give up their case. I doubt Obama does either.

 

[PapaG]

If you had already fulfilled the rules for proving your daughters' identities and ages and a group of Little League baseball officials kept harassing you and your daughters, claiming that they were actually from Guatemala because you hadn't produced a specific document that small group wants, yes, they'd be crazy.

Do you know how Barack Obama 'fulfilled' his obligations? How about John McCain?

Hint - one of them had to provide birth documents to the Senate in a hearing; the other had Nancy Pelosi sign off on a form, "validating" Obama's citizenship status.

As I posted previously. I don't care if the guy was born on Mars, but he sure gives the impression that he is hiding something. Just come clean, if so. America is a very forgiving country.

 

[RR7]

Speaking of crazy people, you sound like one of them. That "argument" you just made makes no sense at all. If Obama has a valid birth certificate which can be authenticated by the hospital where he was born, it would immediately put this whole issue to rest. The so-called "crazy people" would then be discredited in everyone's eyes, and they'd have to give up their case.

I'm really stunned by the arguments liberals put forth to defend Obama's stalling on this issue. If George Bush were refusing to produce a birth certificate, the Left would be up in arms and screaming, "What is he trying to hide?"

it makes plenty of sense. Majority of people look on the "birthers" as nuts. Almost to the level of 9/11 truthers. So if he proves them wrong, adn shuts them up, they go silent, or maybe come up with something credible and relevant. If they're allowed to keep doing what they're doing, then they just look nuts, and by not releasing what they want, and allowing them to complain still, it only helps him.

 

[PapaG]

it makes plenty of sense. Majority of people look on the "birthers" as nuts. Almost to the level of 9/11 truthers. So if he proves them wrong, adn shuts them up, they go silent, or maybe come up with something credible and relevant. If they're allowed to keep doing what they're doing, then they just look nuts, and by not releasing what they want, and allowing them to complain still, it only helps him.

I dunno. The guy has a 42% approval ranking with inflation and higher interest rates on the horizon, and he just floundered in trying to explain bombing Libya, at least in terms of polling data.

Seems to me I'd stop spending money defending the kooks and shut them up, and allocate my lawyers and resources on helping Americans go to work, and getting troops out of harm's way. Anything from the kook Birther fringe will already be discredited, so I don't really agree with your thoughts on this.

 

[Minstrel]

Do you know how Barack Obama 'fulfilled' his obligations? How about John McCain?

No, and I don't really care. He fulfilled them, legally. Anyone who feels he didn't is welcome to petition the Supreme Court, I guess.

 

[Minstrel]

I dunno. The guy has a 42% approval ranking with inflation and higher interest rates on the horizon, and he just floundered in trying to explain bombing Libya, at least in terms of polling data.

Sounds pretty bad. Of course, you saw Joe the Plumber as the end of Obama in Ohio and Pennsylvania, so maybe you tend to be a bit gloomy on Obama's outlook.

Seems to me I'd stop spending money defending the kooks and shut them up, and allocate my lawyers and resources on helping Americans go to work, and getting troops out of harm's way. Anything from the kook Birther fringe will already be discredited, so I don't really agree with your thoughts on this.

I don't think he's putting much of his attention or resources into "defending himself" against the birthers. I think it's actually a form of free advertising for him...politicians spend a lot of money in adverisements trying to discredit their opponents. When opponents will discredit themselves, why would a politician like Obama try to stop it?

 

[PapaG]

No, and I don't really care. He fulfilled them, legally. Anyone who feels he didn't is welcome to petition the Supreme Court, I guess.

Well, there are many lawsuits that have been filed.

Anyhow, as I said, I don't care about this, so I'll eject from the thread.

To me, it's just one more reason to distrust the guy out of many.

 

[andalusian]

So, since I had to provide my daughters' official birth certificate for softball this year, does this mean that they are satisfying the Crazy People of Little League Baseball?

It's baseball. A game where people run around and around in circles. If this does not fall under the definition of "Crazy" - what does?

 

[maxiep]

In my mind, it's a matter of decency. Some Americans have asked for him to provide his long-form birth certificate. He represents all Americans. He shouldn't play politics on this issue. He should have the respect for those Americans who have asked a legitmiate question and just release it. It's no big deal.

 

[MARIS61]

A few more documents that Obama is refusing to release (all of them are typically available for major political leaders):

His kindergarten records
His Punahou school records
His Occidental College records
His Columbia University records
His Columbia thesis
His Harvard Law School records
His Harvard Law Review articles
His scholarly articles from the University of Chicago
His passport
His medical records
His files from his years as an Illinois state senator
His Illinois State Bar Association records
Any baptism records
Any adoption records

You forgot his Marvin Gaye records.

 

[MARIS61]

Nobody who matters cares.

 

[STOMP]

One question. If producing his birth certificate is a non-issue, why has Obama spent over $1 million trying to keep it hidden? What is he trying to hide? That's the question that all you moon-bat liberals keep ignoring.

One obvious answer... which I already gave in the post you quoted. Obama is a politician and all politicians are constantly working towards being reelected. Those who are pursuing this look insane or desperately partisan to the vast majority of the country who feel this is a non-issue. This works for him as opponents who pursue this paint themselves as crazy and/or desperately partisan and make the President a more sympathetic figure as the target of a coalition of crazy's witch hunt... these people are helping him accomplish his political goals including boosting his chances of winning the next election.

I hope that helps

STOMP

 

[MrJayremmie]

[video]http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/w...torum--barbour---trump?xrs=share_copy[/video]

Start at about 2:30 ... some funny shit.