Draft Combine Athletic Testing results

[RR7]

I don't think anyone is making up mythical skills. Just because you maybe have not heard the term does not mean that it isn't mentioned a good deal.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't think anyone is making up mythical skills. Just because you maybe have not heard the term does not mean that it isn't mentioned a good deal.

I've heard it many times, and it is silly. It is a made-up trait that really has no meaning. You seem to be a believer in it, but you admit to having no idea what it actually means.

It's the similar to when people said Jordan had so much "hangtime" even though other players could jump higher.

 

[RR7]

I didn't say I didn't know what it means, I said I don't know how you'd measure it specifically.

 

[blazerboy30]

I didn't say I didn't know what it means, I said I don't know how you'd measure it specifically.

Ok, what does it mean? You said "goes up more quickly than others". What does that mean? Is he defying physics?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Ok, what does it mean? You said "goes up more quickly than others". What does that mean? Is he defying physics?

I can't be certain, but I can put out my best guess--reaction timing, combined with efficiency of motion. If (theoretically) Z-Bo can begin his jump process 1/20 second faster than someone else, and the overall time it takes from initiation of jump process to beginning of elevation is another 1/20 second less, then he could get off the ground 1/10 of a second sooner than the opponent, allowing him to get a rebound despite going against a taller player/better leaper. If on top of that, he doesn't jump as high, then he'll reach the ground sooner, and be able to elevate a second time well before the opponent can.

A friend of mine in high school was 6" shorter than me but could out leap me by nearly a foot. I could accept that, because he was athletic, a swimmer, and in great shape. But what pissed me off was the fact that not only could he outjump me, but then he could come down and get right back up so quickly it was beyond my comprehension. I couldn't explain it then and I'm not sure I did well today, but I know anecdotally that the concept of a "quick leaper" is not just a myth.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Quick jumping could also take into account players gathering themselves for the jump. Slower, less agile players do this. I think PtklPlatypus hit the nail on the head with "efficiency of motion."

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Randolph said he realized playing for Marion (Ind.) High that he was never going to have a jaw-dropping vertical leap. But he had long arms and was a quick jumper, so...

"I can tip the ball to myself," he said.

Rebounding is also about fighting for position, especially when a player is pursuing an offensive rebound. If a player is an effective offensive rebounder like Randolph, a 5-second wrestling match starts just before a shot is taken.

"Players are now bigger, quicker and stronger than ever, so today's game in the paint has evolved into a rugby scrum," said former NBA player Hank McDowell, one of the Grizzlies' radio network analysts.

...

 

[Eastoff]

You're just making crap up now. Define "quick leaper" and how you measure it.

It could be measured by a pressure plate that the athlete is standing on and a switch that they hit at their max height. Pressure plate release starts a timer, the switch they hit stops the timer. NEXT!

 

[blazerboy30]

I can't be certain, but I can put out my best guess--reaction timing, combined with efficiency of motion. If (theoretically) Z-Bo can begin his jump process 1/20 second faster than someone else, and the overall time it takes from initiation of jump process to beginning of elevation is another 1/20 second less, then he could get off the ground 1/10 of a second sooner than the opponent, allowing him to get a rebound despite going against a taller player/better leaper. If on top of that, he doesn't jump as high, then he'll reach the ground sooner, and be able to elevate a second time well before the opponent can.

A friend of mine in high school was 6" shorter than me but could out leap me by nearly a foot. I could accept that, because he was athletic, a swimmer, and in great shape. But what pissed me off was the fact that not only could he outjump me, but then he could come down and get right back up so quickly it was beyond my comprehension. I couldn't explain it then and I'm not sure I did well today, but I know anecdotally that the concept of a "quick leaper" is not just a myth.

You just described somebody that had a higher power / weight ratio than you. If somebody can jump higher than you, he has a better power-to-weight ratio. Since power is force / time, then it is pretty obvious why he could get up more quickly as well... smaller time means higher power at a similar force.

Somebody can either generate enough power to move their body weight quickly or they can't. If they have the power to move their body quickly, almost by definition, that means they'll be able to jump well. It's simple physics.

 

[blazerboy30]

It could be measured by a pressure plate that the athlete is standing on and a switch that they hit at their max height. Pressure plate release starts a timer, the switch they hit stops the timer. NEXT!

You just described how to measure reaction time. That is not specific to jumping and doesn't mean somebody is a "quick leaper". I thought I remembered you being the physics field. How can you be missing this one?

 

[blazerboy30]

Quick jumping could also take into account players gathering themselves for the jump. Slower, less agile players do this. I think PtklPlatypus hit the nail on the head with "efficiency of motion."

People used to say similar nonsense like "efficiency of motion" about Jordan's hangtime.

 

[Eastoff]

You just described how to measure reaction time. That is not specific to jumping and doesn't mean somebody is a "quick leaper". I thought I remembered you being the physics field. How can you be missing this one?

Time of flight and height of flight are related to the weight of the individual. So you could probably just do their max jump height normalized to their standing reach, and measure their weight, then extrapolate their speed at jumping. Not all cows are spherical, nor are idealizations about jumping.

 

[blazerboy30]

Time of flight and height of flight are related to the weight of the individual.

Once they are in the air, time and height of flight have nothing to do with the weight of the individual.

So you could probably just do their max jump height normalized to their standing reach, and measure their weight, then extrapolate their speed at jumping. Not all cows are spherical, nor are idealizations about jumping.

If you want to know how quickly somebody can get their center of mass up by a certain amount, you just need to know their weight and power. If you know those, you also know how high they can jump, and they are proportional. You can't be a "quick leaper" without being able to jump high. Sure, you can have quick reflexes, but that seems different than "quick leaper".

 

[RR7]

A quick leaper generally seem to refer to subsequent jumps from that person. I don't see what the height of someone's jump has to do with anything.

 

[blazerboy30]

Anyway, sorry for the nitpicking. I'll just let it go and agree with you guys that Zach defies physics.

Regardless, the right metric is whether or not the guy can score against taller and/or more athletic players. Zach certainly can. I'm not sure about Sullinger, but using "quick leaping" as the way to decide is not going to work.

 

[RR7]

how is anyone saying he defies physics?

 

[blazerboy30]

A quick leaper generally seem to refer to subsequent jumps from that person.

It is a lot easier to get your next jump in earlier if you weren't in the air as long on the first one. I wouldn't really call that an advantage.

I don't see what the height of someone's jump has to do with anything.

I know. But I don't want to turn this into a physics class, so I'll let it go.

 

[RR7]

lol

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

For fuck sakes! There's obviously a difference between fast twitch fibers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You just described somebody that had a higher power / weight ratio than you. If somebody can jump higher than you, he has a better power-to-weight ratio. Since power is force / time, then it is pretty obvious why he could get up more quickly as well... smaller time means higher power at a similar force.

Somebody can either generate enough power to move their body weight quickly or they can't. If they have the power to move their body quickly, almost by definition, that means they'll be able to jump well. It's simple physics.

It is a lot easier to get your next jump in earlier if you weren't in the air as long on the first one. I wouldn't really call that an advantage.

I'd love to understand the physics that allowed my friend with a higher P/W ratio to be up in the air longer, yet be able to get up for the second and third jumps more quickly than I could. You could educate me via PM if you'd rather not make everyone else feel stupid.

 

[blazerboy30]

For fuck sakes! There's obviously a difference between fast twitch fibers.

:MARIS61:

 

[MickZagger]

I'd love to understand the physics that allowed my friend with a higher P/W ratio to be up in the air longer, yet be able to get up for the second and third jumps more quickly than I could. You could educate me via PM if you'd rather not make everyone else feel stupid.

 

[Eastoff]

I'd love to understand the physics that allowed my friend with a higher P/W ratio to be up in the air longer, yet be able to get up for the second and third jumps more quickly than I could. You could educate me via PM if you'd rather not make everyone else feel stupid.

must spread more rep...