Draft Express: Utah re-signing Milsap nixed an Outlaw trade?

[PapaG]

In a heartbeat.

If Travis was a UFA this summer, and he just signed with another team, I'd be ecstatic. At least if we trade him, even if it is for a late first rounder and some cap relief, we get SOMETHING in return.

Hell, you would have renounced him, right?

 

[SodaPopinski]

NOPE. I like TROUT. He is a gunner but seriously, he'll get better as time goes on...his jumper has improved alot...shot selection not so much but he can make it automatic.

Sure about that? Travis has been in the league six years. SIX years. How many players toil in mediocrity and then suddenly jump to a higher plateau after that long in the league? What you see is what you get with Travis. He's never going to be an attack-the-basket player. He'll always shy away from contact rather than look for it. He's going to be inconsistent because he's feast or famine with his jumpshot. He's never going to be a great defender (either on the ball or help). And his basketball IQ is always going to leave something to be desired.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Sure about that? Travis has been in the league six years. SIX years. How many players toil in mediocrity and then suddenly jump to a higher plateau after that long in the league? What you see is what you get with Travis. He's never going to be an attack-the-basket player. He'll always shy away from contact rather than look for it. He's going to be inconsistent because he's feast or famine with his jumpshot. He's never going to be a great defender (either on the ball or help). And his basketball IQ is always going to leave something to be desired.

well, he was a sucky player out of high school that was just an athletic freak...i still think he's learning the game.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I probably would've. It would've given us the space to blow anyone out of the water. And if it didn't work out (like now), we could resign him for similar to 4M, imho. And if he signed somewhere else, calculated risk.

 

[PapaG]

I probably would've. It would've given us the space to blow anyone out of the water. And if it didn't work out (like now), we could resign him for similar to 4M, imho. And if he signed somewhere else, calculated risk.

Hedo would have likely ended up here had Outlaw been renounced. I hated that deal from the get-go, so actually, keeping Travis is an even smarter move IMO.

Travis had a higher PER than Hedo last year, shot better, plays better defense, and is a wash in terms of rebounding. What he's missing is Hedo's handle. Big deal. He was worth keeping (for me) simply because it meant less money to offer the overrated Turkoglu.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

yup. fuck hedo.

 

[Tince]

There isn't an executive in the NBA that would waive his $4M contract (I doubt it would even cross their mind). If you would, you are showing your inability to recognize value in this league.

 

[PapaG]

There isn't an executive in the NBA that would waive his $4M contract (I doubt it would even cross their mind). If you would, you are showing your inability to recognize value in this league.

Outlaw has consistently had a PER of around 15 and can create his own shot. Hedo averages around a 15 PER for his career, can handle the ball, and he's worth over $10 million/year for 5 years? I don't understand why. Can you explain it to me, since you do evaluate players? I'm not saying Outlaw is underpaid; I am saying that Turkoglu was massively overpaid, and Portland was willing to be the payer.

I do agree that renouncing Outlaw (and also Blake, which I've also seen here), is so far from reality that I do question the basketball acumen of those that advocated doing so.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but the obvious question needs to be asked.

Why isn't KP still doing this? Outlaw for a pick? I don't care if it's lotto protected or not, that is a great trade for Portland.

 

[Tince]

Outlaw has consistently had a PER of around 15 and can create his own shot. Hedo averages around a 15 PER for his career, can handle the ball, and he's worth over $10 million/year for 5 years? I don't understand why. Can you explain it to me, since you do evaluate players? I'm not saying Outlaw is underpaid; I am saying that Turkoglu was massively overpaid, and Portland was willing to be the payer.

I do agree that renouncing Outlaw (and also Blake, which I've also seen here), is so far from reality that I do question the basketball acumen of those that advocated doing so.

I'm far far from a GM, but here is my attempt to recognize Hedo's market value being so high:

1) He can create his own shot, handle the ball, run the pick and roll, and pass well for someone who is 6'9".
2) He and his team had a great post-season.
3) He was one of the top FA's in a very weak FA class.

I'm guessing KP thought Hedo addressed Portland's need to add an extra creator, and an upgrade at the SF, all in one. I think he was going to be worth the first two years of the contract Portland offered him. However, overall, I'm with you, thats too much money for Hedo.

 

[STOMP]

There isn't an executive in the NBA that would waive his $4M contract (I doubt it would even cross their mind). If you would, you are showing your inability to recognize value in this league.

no doubt, some of the comments in this thread are off the charts... posters one upping each other on who can say the most ridiculous thing bashing Blazer players. Of course our fans are known for this.

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

There isn't an executive in the NBA that would waive his $4M contract (I doubt it would even cross their mind). If you would, you are showing your inability to recognize value in this league.

If you're saying that I am more creative and a better problem-solver than the current batch of NBA GMs, I take that as a compliment.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

UTA sends out Boozer to CHI
CHI sends out Hinrich to POR
POR sends out Outlaw to MEM
MEM sends out draft pick to UTA

 

[Tince]

If you're saying that I am more creative and a better problem-solver than the current batch of NBA GMs, I take that as a compliment.

Take it however you want. The dull and unimaginative professional GM's will continue to cash their checks, and you can continue being "creative".

 

[BrianFromWA]

Please, please tell me you don't want me to bring up the litany of GM mistakes over even the last 3 years to show you that you're basically bringing up check-cashing professionals because you can't fathom an idea. "I doubt it would even cross an executive's mind." Are you in tune with 30 GMs and their staffs, or projecting your inability to problem-solve onto them?

But just for the record, you're saying that it's unthinkable that having an extra 3.6M off of the payroll and cap right now would be worth sacrificing Travis? You can't even think of a reason that 30GMs would even consider it? And just how much do you think UFA Travis Outlaw would make this summer?

I especially enjoy the "inability to recognize value in the league" statement.

 

[Tince]

Please, please tell me you don't want me to bring up the litany of GM mistakes over even the last 3 years to show you that you're basically bringing up check-cashing professionals because you can't fathom an idea. "I doubt it would even cross an executive's mind." Are you in tune with 30 GMs and their staffs, or projecting your inability to problem-solve onto them?

But just for the record, you're saying that it's unthinkable that having an extra 3.6M off of the payroll and cap right now would be worth sacrificing Travis? You can't even think of a reason that 30GMs would even consider it? And just how much do you think UFA Travis Outlaw would make this summer?

I especially enjoy the "inability to recognize value in the league" statement.

I can't think of a good reason to waive him. I'm sure I could make up a bad reason to waive him.

There is no way any team would waive Travis and his 3.6M salary. I can't say it as fact, just like I can't say as fact that there is no way Cleveland would trade Lebron for Steve Nash, but that's how confident I am.

Let me ask you this. Why would you waive a guy when you could trade him for a future draft pick and still get the cap relief? Waiving him wouldn't be a very "creative" way to create extra cap space while getting the most value out of you assets as possible.

If you want to take a poll if who is more off their rocker on this subject, I would be happy to see the results.

 

[HailBlazers]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but the obvious question needs to be asked.

Why isn't KP still doing this? Outlaw for a pick? I don't care if it's lotto protected or not, that is a great trade for Portland.

It's all for show. Summertime fun fuckin with Memphis and driving all the manic Blazers fans insane

 

[BrianFromWA]

There's a big difference between trading Travis to one of 4 teams with cap space (only one or two--MEM or ATL--may have done it) and doing it before until his contract was guaranteed. I have no problem with trading him draft day to a team that would've given us value. When June 30 rolled around, then I think it's more than "thinkable" that the option of cutting him would've been on someone's mind.

It's pretty egotistical of me to say this, but I don't think I'm off my rocker. I'm not the one saying GMs are better at coming up with scenarios that someone else because they get a paycheck. Besides, weren't you the one saying CLE's problems were a GM issue, and Ferry should be fired?

I mean, if Outlaw's unthinkable to be kept as a $3.6M drain on cap space---what's his role? You said you don't want to pay $7M to an emergency player (post 42) in Varejao who'd be the 4th big behind Joel, LMA and Oden; but it's unthinkable to think about not paying a guy who'll be behind Batum and LMA and either of the pickups we bring in (backup PF or starting SF) at a minimum.

And you spend a thread talking about Ariza (who is making MLE) is better than Batum, who is starting over Travis; but again, no GM in the league would even consider dumping the guy making 3.6M if they could with no strings attached? And the ability to resign him in a month if things didn't work out?

You say that TO is a much better PF than SF, and should be playing there. And yet you think that LMA should be getting no less than 37 mpg. So tying up 3.6M in cap space for a maximum 11MPG player is "unthinkable" to any of the 30 GMs or their staffs? I mean (and I'll use your words here):

The financially prudent thing to do would be to find a decent backup PF for those 10-12 minutes a game and use our money to address our more pressing needs, instead of dropping a ton of money on a slightly better PF banking on injuries.

You were talking about Lee and 10M of course, but is it completely "unthinkable" that, I don't know, maybe we have guys on a rookie 2nd rounder salary that could take 10mpg, and "use our money to address more pressing needs?" Isn't it at least "thinkable"?

You think that Sessions is only ok for much less than the MLE, because of his fit with our team, but you think it's unthinkable that we would jettison Travis for 3.6M more in space?

In November, when you brought up:

Travis' value appears to have already peaked, and is on it's decline around the league. I read in the Batum vs Wallace thread, people saying we want to give Batum a chance.
Overvaluing your own players is something fans tend to do. I think we are close to the point where we really should consider taking the "sure thing" instead of rolling the dice on potential. If we get offered a solid starter for guys like Batum or Bayless, I think we should take it.

Now personally I agree with this, but KP has said he doesn't want to do that. So should we just say "he's right, of course, why would I ever bring that up? It's unthinkable! I have no ability to value players!" Or, since this is a discussion forum, shouldn't we talk about why we agree or don't? I'd much rather do the latter--especially since generally it doesn't make me look like I'm just attacking posters' intelligence b/c they don't agree with me.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Oh, and here's the reason to waive him. KP didn't do a deal for his (or Blake's) non-guaranteed contract that would've immediately saved another team up to 14M in payroll (if they used Travis, Blake and/or IDTE). Since that asset window passed, he had an ability to ensure he had an extra 7.6M in cap space (again, Blake and Travis, though if you just want to use the 3.6M figure that's fine). An extra 3.6M means that he's at 11.3M starting salary now, or two players at roughly the MLE (should he choose to do that). Or he could hold onto the space until November. Anyone think that the ability to absorb almost 18M in salary, no questions asked, would be a good use of a player who should to be (in your words) our 11mpg backup PF?