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MickZagger said:
We have always seemed to do well with lightly regarded O lineman
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that's true, but it was more a matter of necessity than intention

all the way thru Rich Brooks --> Mike Bellotti --> Chip Kelly --> Mark Helfrich, Oregon's M.O. was to recruit lighter, rangy O-Linemen and build them into bigger mobile linemen with many all-conference selections.

I can't recall the exact stats, but IIRC for about 11 straight seasons from Bellotti to the fist couple of seasons of Halfrich, Oregon led the Pac-12 in rushing. And they did so at the same time that they had one of the lightest O-Lines in the conference. The advantage they utilized was mobility and the ability of the O-line to make initial blocks at the LOS then attack the 2nd level and initiate blocks on LB's and safeties. You always saw Duck O-Linemen further downfield, sustaining blocks than other teams' OLines. It worked great and made Oregon extremely successful....

....until the Ducks came up against big physical...and mobile....front-7's like Auburn, and Ohio State, and LSU (and even Stanford). The Ducks just didn't have enough of a mobility advantage to offset the physicality of those elite SEC-level front-7's

but all of that was making the best of a situation; and the situation was Oregon simply couldn't recruit elite OLinemen. They had to recruit 3-stars and turn them into 4-stars, and an occasional 5-star

Chip Kelly brought 2 major innovations to the Ducks. One was a spread offense that relied on a spread-power attack; the other was extreme tempo. Opposing defenses weren't prepared and they couldn't react well enough; not with just a week to prepare. A month, yes, a week, no. And those mobil OLines fit perfectly into those offenses and innovations

but more and more teams, not only at the NCAA level but the high school level, began to copy and run spread + tempo. Meaning that defenses, and defenders, became familiar with both concepts and the lightning-in-a-bottle that Chip caught at Oregon was no more

so, in a real way, it evolved backward to standard OLines. But Mario Cristobal proved that Oregon COULD recruit elite OLinemen, so that's where the Ducks are. The problem is that Oregon has not landed a single commitment from an offensive linemen that cycle. And a team need to land at least 3 every cycle. Now, part of the issue is that the current OLine class out west is one of the weakest ever. But the Ducks have missed on at least 4 OL recruits they did target. reportedly, they are still chasing a couple of 4-stars, but they are getting close to the semi-desperation of 'we-need-bodies', which is not a good place to be
 
wizenheimer said:
that's true, but it was more a matter of necessity than intention

all the way thru Rich Brooks --> Mike Bellotti --> Chip Kelly --> Mark Helfrich, Oregon's M.O. was to recruit lighter, rangy O-Linemen and build them into bigger mobile linemen with many all-conference selections.

I can't recall the exact stats, but IIRC for about 11 straight seasons from Bellotti to the fist couple of seasons of Halfrich, Oregon led the Pac-12 in rushing. And they did so at the same time that they had one of the lightest O-Lines in the conference. The advantage they utilized was mobility and the ability of the O-line to make initial blocks at the LOS then attack the 2nd level and initiate blocks on LB's and safeties. You always saw Duck O-Linemen further downfield, sustaining blocks than other teams' OLines. It worked great and made Oregon extremely successful....

....until the Ducks came up against big physical...and mobile....front-7's like Auburn, and Ohio State, and LSU (and even Stanford). The Ducks just didn't have enough of a mobility advantage to offset the physicality of those elite SEC-level front-7's

but all of that was making the best of a situation; and the situation was Oregon simply couldn't recruit elite OLinemen. They had to recruit 3-stars and turn them into 4-stars, and an occasional 5-star

Chip Kelly brought 2 major innovations to the Ducks. One was a spread offense that relied on a spread-power attack; the other was extreme tempo. Opposing defenses weren't prepared and they couldn't react well enough; not with just a week to prepare. A month, yes, a week, no. And those mobil OLines fit perfectly into those offenses and innovations

but more and more teams, not only at the NCAA level but the high school level, began to copy and run spread + tempo. Meaning that defenses, and defenders, became familiar with both concepts and the lightning-in-a-bottle that Chip caught at Oregon was no more

so, in a real way, it evolved backward to standard OLines. But Mario Cristobal proved that Oregon COULD recruit elite OLinemen, so that's where the Ducks are. The problem is that Oregon has not landed a single commitment from an offensive linemen that cycle. And a team need to land at least 3 every cycle. Now, part of the issue is that the current OLine class out west is one of the weakest ever. But the Ducks have missed on at least 4 OL recruits they did target. reportedly, they are still chasing a couple of 4-stars, but they are getting close to the semi-desperation of 'we-need-bodies', which is not a good place to be
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Yeah those chip Kelly teams had their offensive lineman running to block down field usually as soon as the ball was snapped.

We have a very experienced o line on this years team so I think they should fare okay today. But Georgia is a whole different beast. They can keep rotating fresh bodies.

Qb play will be important today. I’m not really sure what to expect with Dillingham calling plays but I’m hoping it’s less vanilla than what we saw with Cristobal teams.

But I agree if we want to win a natty. They better stock up the o line with some SEC caliber line. On both sides.
 
Anybody remember the spread of the game last year vs. Ohio State?
 
Ducks offense looks more comfortable on that first drive. I’m worried about 2nd half west down on the line though
 
Well, that was certainly worse than expected. Not an auspicious start to the Lanning era. Not great for Bo Nix either. Bo Picks?
 
e_blazer said:
Well, that was certainly worse than expected. Not an auspicious start to the Lanning era. Not great for Bo Nix either. Bo Picks?
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Nix threw a bad pick that killed an early drive. Gave me flashbacks to Anthony Brown. But he really didn't look that bad, IMO. Worst was that he sure seemed to lock on primary receivers and not go thru progressions. He is pretty mobile though. Didn't really get a chance to see his game management since the game ended in the 1st Q

but it was on the other side of the ball the Ducks got curb-stomped. The defense was a mess and the tackling was terrible, mainly because of bad angles to the ball.
 
The game was over in the 2nd quarter. Nix’s picks were bad. Georgia receivers were wide open, Oregon’s not so much. No pressure by the Oregon D on the QB added to craptastic tackling. Georgia played well in all phases — as they should.

Next week’s game better not be remotely close at the end of the first half. Thompson should get major burn in the 2nd half or Nix should not be QB1.
 
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Exactly what I mean about TT. It’s clear at this point he must be just really bad..
 
AldoTrapani said:


Exactly what I mean about TT. It’s clear at this point he must be just really bad..
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I'm sorry but this is just idiotic.

Bo Nix was also a 5-star, and also has 3 years of college QB experience, in the SEC. Of course he was going to be the starter yesterday; there was zero chance it would be anyone else. That says absolutely nothing about whether or not Thompson can play. The idea that a 5-star QB must play immediately or be a bust is ridiculous.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I'm sorry but this is just idiotic.

Bo Nix was also a 5-star, and also has 3 years of college QB experience, in the SEC. Of course he was going to be the starter yesterday; there was zero chance it would be anyone else. That says absolutely nothing about whether or not Thompson can play. The idea that a 5-star QB must play immediately or be a bust is ridiculous.
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I don't know how good TT actually is; however, if he was "garbage" or nowhere near his ranking from HS, that would have come out by now. But I will say, again, that Nix will have to show out over the next two games. No point in wasting time on an upperclassman transfer if it doesn't work. If Nix does show quality play -- and the Ducks dominate in games -- then send in TT for extended minutes.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I'm sorry but this is just idiotic.

Bo Nix was also a 5-star, and also has 3 years of college QB experience, in the SEC. Of course he was going to be the starter yesterday; there was zero chance it would be anyone else. That says absolutely nothing about whether or not Thompson can play. The idea that a 5-star QB must play immediately or be a bust is ridiculous.
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If Nix was actually good, that argument would carry more weight.
 
oldmangrouch said:
If Nix was actually good, that argument would carry more weight.
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Nix having a bad game against the national champions is no more a referendum on him than Nix starting is on Thompson. Give him a couple games before jumping to conclusions.
 
wizenheimer said:
Nix threw a bad pick that killed an early drive. Gave me flashbacks to Anthony Brown. But he really didn't look that bad, IMO. Worst was that he sure seemed to lock on primary receivers and not go thru progressions. He is pretty mobile though. Didn't really get a chance to see his game management since the game ended in the 1st Q

but it was on the other side of the ball the Ducks got curb-stomped. The defense was a mess and the tackling was terrible, mainly because of bad angles to the ball.
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Good point on bad angles to the ball. Is that a scheme/lack of adjustment problem? Or an execution problem?
 
Ty Thompson looked OK in his first action against Stony Brook last season. But the next 2 games, against Pac-12 teams and in the spring game this year, he looked terrible. Now, he didn't get a lot of snaps (except in the spring game), so there isn't much live action to make a judgment

there were plenty of times last year when Anthony Brown was playing poorly enough to warrant a chaage, but it never happened. Most blamed that on Cristobal, but as Schwartz said, Mario was gone by the Alamo Bowl and the staff didn't want Ty to play.

it was pretty much a done deal that when Nix transferred in he was going to be the starter. And contrary to a lot of the chatter, other than one bad interception, I don't think Nix played bad, at all. The Ducks were just outmatched and never started a drive in good field position because the Duck defense was horrible. That's not on Nix

I've been told, although it was at the level of rumor and whisper, that when we heard about Duck QB's throwing a lot of interceptions in training camp scrimmages, it was mostly Thompson. That he is still having trouble with reads, progressions, and speed of the game. That doesn't mean he won't put it all together at some point; he has a good arm and decent mobility. But it does sound like he's not ready mentally yet and being in his 2nd season, that's a concern; although it is a new offensive system this year
 
Fairly-Hard said:
This is what made Chip's offense tough to handle. Nobody could rotate in fresh bodies. No Huddle and blast them with speed.
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that doesn't work anymore. Most offenses run some version of spread; and almost all of those have high-tempo packages. Chip was part of that innovation, but it's been copied, over and over, not only in the NCAA but in high schools. Meaning that defenders and defensive coaches are much better prepared for spread and tempo....they've been seeing it for years and it's not zigging when everybody else is zigging instead of zagging. Ironically (and expectedly), the newer version of zigging-while-everybody-else-is-zagging is running power schemes with multiple tight ends. That's how Stanford was effective. But even that is more common now

in many fundamental ways, Chip's offense was a tactical gimmick. Teams just couldn't prepare for it in the 3 practices they held in a week between games. But when teams had more time to prepare, like in bowl games, those advantages Oregon had were gone. Chip certainly wasn't a guru in the NFL, and he only has a 19-23 record at UCLA. Things are a lot harder when Mike Bellotti isn't handing him a team with elite talent and depth
 
wizenheimer said:
that doesn't work anymore. Most offenses run some version of spread; and almost all of those have high-tempo packages. Chip was part of that innovation, but it's been copied, over and over, not only in the NCAA but in high schools. Meaning that defenders and defensive coaches are much better prepared for spread and tempo....they've been seeing it for years and it's not zigging when everybody else is zigging instead of zagging. Ironically (and expectedly), the newer version of zigging-while-everybody-else-is-zagging is running power schemes with multiple tight ends. That's how Stanford was effective. But even that is more common now

in many fundamental ways, Chip's offense was a tactical gimmick. Teams just couldn't prepare for it in the 3 practices they held in a week between games. But when teams had more time to prepare, like in bowl games, those advantages Oregon had were gone. Chip certainly wasn't a guru in the NFL, and he only has a 19-23 record at UCLA. Things are a lot harder when Mike Bellotti isn't handing him a team with elite talent and depth
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Yep.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Nix having a bad game against the national champions is no more a referendum on him than Nix starting is on Thompson. Give him a couple games before jumping to conclusions.
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Losing the game was not a referendum. The way they played (and it wasn't just Nix) most certainly is. How much evidence do you need that this is not a good team and Nix is not a particularly good QB?:dunno:

Besides, the original question was why the former "5 star prospect" can't get off the bench. Even giving Nix the benefit of every doubt, he is hardly the second coming of MM or Herbert. No coach with half a brain would bury a true talent behind a "meh" QB like Nix. If Nix isn't that great, but is better than Thompson, then Thompson can safely be written off as undeserving of the hype and a flop.
 
oh please OMG. Was TT (or Butters) going to start his first D1 game on the road vs Georgia? It was to no one's surprise that Bo Nix (a former 5* himself) started this game as he had both D1 experience and time within this offense under Dillingham. If they stick with Nix through meh results as the games progress, that indeed will be an indictment against their other QBs talent as they should be ready by now.

STOMP
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I'm sorry but this is just idiotic.

Bo Nix was also a 5-star, and also has 3 years of college QB experience, in the SEC. Of course he was going to be the starter yesterday; there was zero chance it would be anyone else. That says absolutely nothing about whether or not Thompson can play. The idea that a 5-star QB must play immediately or be a bust is ridiculous.
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Fine let him start. We are not disputing that but after we were getting killed we couldn’t at least try the other 5 star kid?
 
AldoTrapani said:
Fine let him start. We are not disputing that but after we were getting killed we couldn’t at least try the other 5 star kid?
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Butterfield was also on the verge of 5* status when he committed to Oregon Spring 2019. He then shut it down and didn't do any camps the summer following his Junior year and slowly slid down in the rankings despite having a great Senior season. If at some point this season they move on from Nix, don't be surprised if it isn't TT who gets the snaps

STOMP
 
AldoTrapani said:
Fine let him start. We are not disputing that but after we were getting killed we couldn’t at least try the other 5 star kid?
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Yes, I'm sure a different quarterback was going to make all the difference against that smothering defense. The Ducks were clearly playing Georgia even at the other 10 positions.

No, you don't throw the inexperienced youngster out against a national champion after a 3-year SEC starter gets embarrassed. You let the overmatched senior play out the string and start prepping for next week. Nothing good would have come from putting Thompson out there.
 
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