Durant = ???

[jlprk]

You have to compare him to someone of the same height and slenderness. I make the rule. Any of you could have made a rule, but you didn't, so it's too late and it's your fault.

Marcus Camby.

 

[BBert]

I've been out of town. When did the Blazers acquire Durant?

 

[BGrantFan]

Lots of speculation as to what KD will become. Me? I say he is the next Dominique Wilkins or George Gervin - great scorer, but that's about it.

You?

He rebounds at a much better rate than Gervin or Wilkins, and he actually plays defense.

I don't think he can be compared to a player since other members of Team USA claim Durant is really 6'11" now. Throw in his 7'6" wingspan, and we're talking Connie Hawkins, but more complete?

Seriously though, who does he compare to historically? I think he's a transcendent player like a Jordan, a Chamberlain, a Magic, a Lebron James, an Oscar Robertson, or a Bird. You'll never see anything like him before or after.

 

[BGrantFan]

I just don't see what the fuss is about. He's a good mid-range shooter and he gets to the line a lot, but he's not a good defender, he's still stick-thin and I'm not sure that he will continue to draw fouls at the rate that he has. Further, I'm not sure that he will remain 100% healthy... we'll see what happens when he has a bit of an injury to overcome.

Other than scoring he doesn't seem to do anything well, and while scoring is the single most important skill to possess, and while he's still quite young, I don't see him being a player that changes the face of the NBA.

Ed O.

Well, other than rebound at an 8 rpg clip, draw double teams and still dominate, and have a PER of 26.2.

Have you read Breaks of the Game yet, Ed? LOL

 

[BGrantFan]

I think Dr. J is Durant's future. Without an legit All-Star big, Durant can't win titles plural.

Which Dr. J? ABA Doc, or NBA Doc? NBA Doc won an MVP in 1980-81 with these stats at age 30. Doc was a beast in the ABA, but then, so were David Thompson and George McGinnis.

Erving

25 ppg/8 rpg/ 4 apg/ 2 spg/2 bpg

52% FG/79% FT/22% 3pt

Loaded team wins 62 games

Durant last season at age 21

30 ppg/ 8 rpg/3 apg/1 spg/1 bpg

48% FG/90% FT/37% 3pt

Crap team wins 50 games.

Durant is already at Doc's NBA apex, and he's only 21 right now.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Kobe Bryant without having the benefit of playing with Shaq in his prime but with the benefit of not having everyone hate him.

 

[Ed O]

Well, other than rebound at an 8 rpg clip, draw double teams and still dominate, and have a PER of 26.2.

His PER is largely based on his scoring, and based on what I've seen he doesn't draw that many double teams. Double-teaming a guy with no post-up game is a waste of time, generally.

He's a very very good player, for sure, and he might continue to improve (based on his youth, it's likely he WILL improve) to the point where he redefines the game. I don't see it, though, based on how his game is right now.

Ed O.

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

He rebounds at a much better rate than Gervin or Wilkins, and he actually plays defense.

I don't think he can be compared to a player since other members of Team USA claim Durant is really 6'11" now. Throw in his 7'6" wingspan, and we're talking Connie Hawkins, but more complete?

Seriously though, who does he compare to historically? I think he's a transcendent player like a Jordan, a Chamberlain, a Magic, a Lebron James, an Oscar Robertson, or a Bird. You'll never see anything like him before or after.

He's definitely unique. I think I mentioned this in another thread (or maybe it was one of the earlier posts in this thread), but he lacks many of the elementary fundamentals that have a high probability relationship with the greatest players of all time. He doesn't have that killer instinct that we saw in MJ or in Kobe or even non GOAT guys like Isiah, Reggie & Magic. He doesn't have the passing ability that you see with guys even like LeBron and even big men like Shaq and Kareem.

So yes, he's unique and could be one of these players that is remembered for some special way he played (Shawn Bradley was remember for his unique play, or Spud Webb for his unique "small" play). But I don't think you can say without the fundamentals that he'll ever get himself remembered as one of these top 20 of all time like the Wilt's and Magic's of past.

He just screams of a stick figure that has absurdly long arms and uses them to get a lot of touch foul and get himself to the line. He also uses his wingspan to get a larger number of rebounds than he physically should normally be getting. And he can score a multitude of ways which makes him a great scoring threat. But then he also screams of a guy that will have to get injured at some point with that stick frame. And also in seeing how he mentally folded when Texas played an underdog 5-seed in the 2007 NCAA playoffs, and see how he mentally folds every OT game against a playoff caliber team, and seeing how he mentally folded against the Lakers in the playoffs last year, it is hard to imagine that his unique scoring and rebounding stat abilities will ever transcend the game and translate to anything like going deep in the playoffs and certainly not a ring.

 

[OddEnormous]

His PER is largely based on his scoring

As someone who doesn't rate PER, I can say in confidence, this is an asinine statement.

Oh look who it is.

 

[BGrantFan]

His PER is largely based on his scoring, and based on what I've seen he doesn't draw that many double teams. Double-teaming a guy with no post-up game is a waste of time, generally.

He's a very very good player, for sure, and he might continue to improve (based on his youth, it's likely he WILL improve) to the point where he redefines the game. I don't see it, though, based on how his game is right now.

Ed O.

At this point, I just have to think that you're stirring the pot. Either that, or you don't know shit about basketball.

I'll go with the latter, based on your embarrassing lack of knowledge of the book Breaks of the Game.

A "very, very good player" is at age 21 2nd in the MVP vote and the unquestioned Alpha Dog on an undersized and extremely young Team USA. You flip-flop all over the place, Ed.

 

[BGrantFan]

As someone who doesn't rate PER, I can say in confidence, this is an asinine statement.

Oh look who it is.

Durant's PER has nothing to do with his freakish ability to be efficient on offense, or his 8 rpg and 3 assists out of the SF slot.

 

[Ed O]

As someone who doesn't rate PER, I can say in confidence, this is an asinine statement.

Oh look who it is.

What do you mean "doesn't rate PER"?

And if you're saying it in confidence why are you telling everyone?

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

At this point, I just have to think that you're stirring the pot. Either that, or you don't know shit about basketball.

All right. Sorry you "just have to think" that.

I'll go with the latter, based on your embarrassing lack of knowledge of the book Breaks of the Game.

As I said elsewhere, I had a brain cramp. It was 2 AM on a Saturday night and I was not sober. I'm not any more embarrassed by getting a bit confused than I would be by a typo. I'm glad that you're having fun with it, though.

A "very, very good player" is at age 21 2nd in the MVP vote and the unquestioned Alpha Dog on an undersized and extremely young Team USA. You flip-flop all over the place, Ed.

Iverson was overrated by many people early in his career, too. Sorry that not everyone is bowing down at the feet of Durant just yet.

Ed O.

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

A "very, very good player" is at age 21 2nd in the MVP vote and the unquestioned Alpha Dog on an undersized and extremely young Team USA.

It's pretty irresponsible to use "popularity voting" for some meaningful measure. Remember that Vince Carter was voted as the starter for the 2003 all-star game, even after he had only played 10 games by the time the voting was through because he was injured much of the season. Yao was voted as an all-star starter a couple times while being injured much of the season. Rudy received the 7th most votes for rookie of the year in 2009. SHows just because you can sell jerseys or get the media to throw your name in the hat for a stat-driven popularity vote doesn't equate to being "great".

 

[BGrantFan]

It's pretty irresponsible to use "popularity voting" for some meaningful measure. Remember that Vince Carter was voted as the starter for the 2003 all-star game, even after he had only played 10 games by the time the voting was through because he was injured much of the season. Yao was voted as an all-star starter a couple times while being injured much of the season. Rudy received the 7th most votes for rookie of the year in 2009. SHows just because you can sell jerseys or get the media to throw your name in the hat for a stat-driven popularity vote doesn't equate to being "great".

You do realize that the MVP vote is decided by beat NBA writers, national NBA writers, and other media types who follow the game, right? And that the All-Star starters are decided mainly by fans spamming NBA voting sites?

I mean, you know this, right?

 

[BGrantFan]

All right. Sorry you "just have to think" that.



As I said elsewhere, I had a brain cramp. It was 2 AM on a Saturday night and I was not sober. I'm not any more embarrassed by getting a bit confused than I would be by a typo. I'm glad that you're having fun with it, though.



Iverson was overrated by many people early in his career, too. Sorry that not everyone is bowing down at the feet of Durant just yet.

Ed O.

I'm not bowing down to Durant. I just think he's an absolutely phenomenal player, and when I consider his age, it blows my mind LeBron-style.

That said, since you've been such a good sport, I'll remove my signature. I know that you won't yield on NBA opinions, but I'm certain that you did know about Breaks of the Game.

 

[Ed O]

I'm not bowing down to Durant. I just think he's an absolutely phenomenal player, and when I consider his age, it blows my mind LeBron-style.

He's not nearly the player LeBron was at his age, though, IMO. That's what I'm saying and why I voted "Dr J" in this poll.

Ed O.

 

[BGrantFan]

He's not nearly the player LeBron was at his age, though, IMO. That's what I'm saying and why I voted "Dr J" in this poll.

Ed O.

ABA Dr. J? Sure. NBA Dr. J? Durant is already at Doc's peak statistically.

 

[Ed O]

ABA Dr. J? Sure. NBA Dr. J? Durant is already at Doc's peak statistically.

Which way did you vote in this poll?

Ed O.

 

[BGrantFan]

He's not nearly the player LeBron was at his age, though, IMO. That's what I'm saying and why I voted "Dr J" in this poll.

Ed O.

Mmmkay, but LeBron had arguably the best 21 year-old season since Magic Johnson. Durant wasn't far behind him, and his team won more games.

Dr. J? I just don't see that comparison. I voted other.

 

[BGrantFan]

Which way did you vote in this poll?

Ed O.

Didn't see your post. I voted other.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The arguments are kind of silly. He's damn good, whether that's top 10 player all-time good or "just" MVP candidate good remains to be seen, but we'd all be giddy as a pack of school girls at a Justin Beiber concert if he was a Blazer.

 

[BGrantFan]

The arguments are kind of silly. He's damn good, whether that's top 10 player all-time good or "just" MVP candidate good remains to be seen, but we'd all be giddy as a pack of school girls at a Justin Beiber concert if he was a Blazer.

False.

He's selfish, he only scores, and Oden has the potential to be a better player, so it's all good.

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

You do realize that the MVP vote is decided by beat NBA writers, national NBA writers, and other media types who follow the game, right? And that the All-Star starters are decided mainly by fans spamming NBA voting sites?

I mean, you know this, right?

Popularity votes are popularity votes whether it be by a fan who barely understands the fundamentals of the game, just what the read in the boxscores, or by a writer or media member who has a laminated lanyard and also barely understands the fundamentals of the game, just what they're told to write about in order to make sales (which amounts to the same thing, that a guy scoring 30 ppg must be one of the best players in the league, right?).

But I get your point. It's at least somewhat of a better source. Sort of like the BCS for college football. Obviously better than the AP or coaches poll in actually using statistics to base standings instead of people watching Sportscenter and barely having a clue, but then the BCS is so influenced by said polls it begins to lose some of its own credibility.

 

[OddEnormous]

What do you mean "doesn't rate PER"?

And if you're saying it in confidence why are you telling everyone?

Ed O.

I don't rate PER as much as others as the be all end all. That said, your comment was stupid.

"And if you're saying it in confidence why are you telling everyone?"

Burn I misspoke/misswrote. Meant to say "with all confidence"

I'm sure that won't stop you from wringing the life out of it though.

 

[Minstrel]

The arguments are kind of silly. He's damn good, whether that's top 10 player all-time good or "just" MVP candidate good remains to be seen, but we'd all be giddy as a pack of school girls at a Justin Beiber concert if he was a Blazer.

I would love to have Durant on the Blazers. I love excellent wings.

I think the Blazers will be a better team with a healthy Oden, but I actually enjoy watching a great wing more than a great big man. Plus, Durant has certainty while Oden does not.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I would love to have Durant on the Blazers. I love excellent wings.

I think the Blazers will be a better team with a healthy Oden, but I actually enjoy watching a great wing more than a great big man. Plus, Durant has certainty while Oden does not.

"will" implies certainty ... if you had said "could" I'd agree with you.

 

[Minstrel]

"will" implies certainty ... if you had said "could" I'd agree with you.

You're confusing where I see the uncertainty. I think Oden's uncertainty comes in terms of health. If healthy (which is how I qualified the "will" assertion) I see certainty to Oden's greater ability to impact games, because of how he has played when healthy. So there's no contradiction.

 

[BGrantFan]

You're confusing where I see the uncertainty. I think Oden's uncertainty comes in terms of health. If healthy (which is how I qualified the "will" assertion) I see certainty to Oden's greater ability to impact games, because of how he has played when healthy. So there's no contradiction.

Oden, when healthy, averages 6 fouls/per 36. He's effective in his limited minutes, but playing just under half of a game and sending opponents to the FT line isn't ideal play from him, IMO. If you are arguing that Greg Oden's 21 games/24 minutes last season were more effective on the Blazers than Durant's 82 games of production, we disagree.

 

[mook]

Obviously, Durant is Batum without the defense.