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dviss1 said:
We could fix it but the corporatists don't care. It's not the average human that's doing the overall majority of the destruction.
It's the corporations that are churning out this shit that doesn't biodegrade. Capitalism does this.
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So, Socialism/Communism is the answer? Gotta love what China is doing. They don't pollute at all. Sure glad we don't get any goods from them.
 
ABM said:
So, Socialism/Communism is the answer? Gotta love what China is doing. They don't pollute at all. Sure glad we don't get any goods from them.
Click to expand...

I mean they've only had 95,000 cases of COVID and less than 5,000 deaths ... I guess we could learn a thing or two from them about how to unleash a worldwide pandemic and yet also keep it out of our country.

On that topic ... watched In The Same Breath about the start of the virus and how China handled it all and then the United States, interesting and extremely depressing all at the same time.

 
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ABM said:
So, Socialism/Communism is the answer? Gotta love what China is doing. They don't pollute at all. Sure glad we don't get any goods from them.
Click to expand...

Don't start with the weird assumptions... The entire planet pollutes no matter the way their governments are ran.

Coca Cola (the largest producer of plastic waste) is sold in every country...
 
dviss1 said:
Don't start with the weird assumptions... The entire planet pollutes no matter the way their governments are ran.

Coca Cola (the largest producer of plastic waste) is sold in every country...
Click to expand...

K.
 
ABM said:
K.
Click to expand...

So you act like you're concerned about it but what do you actually want to do?

How do you crack down on a polluter like Coca Cola, Exxon, or Monsanto when our government is bought and sold by them?

See this is where ideologies collide. Because some people would rather concentrate on culture wars instead of being stewards of the only place we know that harbors life...
 
ABM said:
So, Socialism/Communism is the answer? Gotta love what China is doing. They don't pollute at all. Sure glad we don't get any goods from them.
Click to expand...

You have this big problem with socialism but don't have any concern for the corporations that are getting it?

Corporations are the BIGGEST takers when it comes to welfare...

"This country has socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor.”

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, 1968
 
dviss1 said:
So you act like you're concerned about it but what do you actually want to do?

How do you crack down on a polluter like Coca Cola, Exxon, or Monsanto when our government is bought and sold by them?

See this is where ideologies collide. Because some people would rather concentrate on culture wars instead of being stewards of the only place we know that harbors life...
Click to expand...

I'll admit, I'm not the best at reducing my own carbon footprint. However, I'm about that close to quit buying plastic bottle water (I don't drink sodas or the like) and go with a home filter.

Also, a few other items at top of mind:

1) Separating out my trash
2) Donating to Goodwill and the like
3) Purchase a hybrid or all-electric vehicle
 
dviss1 said:
You have this big problem with socialism but don't have any concern for the corporations that are getting it?

Corporations are the BIGGEST takers when it comes to welfare...

"This country has socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor.”

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, 1968
Click to expand...

I wish the IRS virtually eliminated corporate write-offs except for actions that helped improve our environment. Pipe-dream, but.....

BTW...

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54719577
 
ABM said:
I wish the IRS virtually eliminated corporate write-offs except for actions that helped improve our environment. Pipe-dream, but.....

BTW...

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54719577
Click to expand...

Well then understand that you shouldn't get up in arms about people getting money when corporations are pounding us hand over fist.

In the time it takes to complain about a guy getting a snickers with his food stamp card, GE steals about $10K from us.

That little green sliver is NOT the reason for our budget woes...

Trump%20fy%2019%20budget%20pie%20chart.png
 
ABM said:
We need it, though.
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We are not acting as though we need it. We are taking the Earth for granted. We are destroying it.
 
dviss1 said:
She is going to raze the virus that we are from her surface. And we'll deserve it.
Click to expand...

She's been trying already. We are destroying her.
 
dviss1 said:
We could fix it but the corporatists don't care. It's not the average human that's doing the overall majority of the destruction.
It's the corporations that are churning out this shit that doesn't biodegrade. Capitalism does this. Anything to increase the profit margin.
Cut corners, create unsafe working conditions, create single use non biodegradable plastics that is in everyone's system as we speak...

It's abhorrent...
Click to expand...

No they don't. All the pollution across the world from these corporations is killing the planet. It's not just the plastics. They won't cut down on emissions because they are greedy. Whenever someone gets into office to try and regulate the emissions, they all throw their money into an opponent who will deregulate. They take no responsibility.

That shit is killing our Ozone layer making the Earth hotter. We are already seeing water levels rise as the ice caps continue to melt. It's only going to get worse. More fires. Bigger hurricanes. We're going to end up turning the Earth into Venus if we aren't careful.
 
dviss1 said:
Don't start with the weird assumptions... The entire planet pollutes no matter the way their governments are ran.

Coca Cola (the largest producer of plastic waste) is sold in every country...
Click to expand...

They have Coca-Cola in the Amazon rain Forrest
 
dviss1 said:
So you act like you're concerned about it but what do you actually want to do?

How do you crack down on a polluter like Coca Cola, Exxon, or Monsanto when our government is bought and sold by them?

See this is where ideologies collide. Because some people would rather concentrate on culture wars instead of being stewards of the only place we know that harbors life...
Click to expand...

That's what corporations want. They want us focused on culture wars because then we aren't focused on them.
 
Chris Craig said:
We're going to end up turning the Earth into Venus if we aren't careful.
Click to expand...

I remember as a kid thinking that the first attempt at life was on Venus, but they buggered it up and thats why it was the way it was. I guess it was more of a sci-fantasy as a kid.

Kind of a "cautionary tale" of what could/would happen to earth if we didn't fix things.

Also kind of thought it would've been cool to make a movie where there was life on Mars, Venus and Earth (how fucking cool would that be if there was life on those 2 other planets, and better yet, wtf isn't there??), but Mars and Venus mucked it up and had to escape to Earth. Like, they were both farther along than the earth was, and that's why certain things happened on earth that seemed so far out.
 
dviss1 said:
Look at the microplastics video I put in this thread. Our oceans are filled with plastic and believe me when I say, we are not recycling anything in this country, whether or not we separate our trash..
Click to expand...

OK, will do. But, yeah, did you use the word abhorrent in this thread? It's absolutely the case. And, dang, currently, I'm guilty as charged as a contributor.
 
dviss1 said:
We could fix it but the corporatists don't care. It's not the average human that's doing the overall majority of the destruction.
It's the corporations that are churning out this shit that doesn't biodegrade. Capitalism does this. Anything to increase the profit margin.
Cut corners, create unsafe working conditions, create single use non biodegradable plastics that is in everyone's system as we speak...

It's abhorrent...
Click to expand...

I wish I could agree with you here, but I do not think it is true. Everything corporations do is because it is profitable and it would not be profitable if the average people demanded more (as in, better management of resources, less harmful materials etc...).

The good thing is, the average person is demanding more so corporations are getting better (well, some of them are and only in some places, but still). The bad thing is, this change is very slow and it will take time for both people to demand more and corporations to adjust.

Now, the other thing of this equation is that a lot of the things we want to fight for - like more accessible food for everyone, cheaper housing etc.. - also cost more to do sustainably. So, like everything else in the world, you need to get to some kind of a compromise.

But, if we are talking specifically about damage to the earth, it has to bubble up from the people - because corporations are a machinery for making money - and until it hurts them to do it responsibly (because of demand) - they will not do it.
 
andalusian said:
I wish I could agree with you here, but I do not think it is true. Everything corporations do is because it is profitable and it would not be profitable if the average people demanded more (as in, better management of resources, less harmful materials etc...).

The good thing is, the average person is demanding more so corporations are getting better (well, some of them are and only in some places, but still). The bad thing is, this change is very slow and it will take time for both people to demand more and corporations to adjust.

Now, the other thing of this equation is that a lot of the things we want to fight for - like more accessible food for everyone, cheaper housing etc.. - also cost more to do sustainably. So, like everything else in the world, you need to get to some kind of a compromise.

But, if we are talking specifically about damage to the earth, it has to bubble up from the people - because corporations are a machinery for making money - and until it hurts them to do it responsibly (because of demand) - they will not do it.
Click to expand...

The average person doesn't know to demand more. Corporations lie and control information. It doesn't hurt them because they control the government. And they do that with money. Money they get in nefarious ways because when you have a profit motive in something, something will always be exploited. You see it in every system from healthcare to private prisons. Some things simply don't need to be an industry. But coke could be required to use biodegradable packaging, that's something a regulation could accomplish.
 
dviss1 said:
The average person doesn't know to demand more. Corporations lie and control information. It doesn't hurt them because they control the government. And they do that with money. Money they get in nefarious ways because when you have a profit motive in something, something will always be exploited. You see it in every system from healthcare to private prisons. Some things simply don't need to be an industry. But coke could be required to use biodegradable packaging, that's something a regulation could accomplish.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree with any of this, I am just saying that the solution needs to be driven bottom up. Let's face it, regulation will only succeed if people elect / demand the right government - so, at the end of the day, it starts with people - and the way to get to people is through education, I guess, which is once again, only going to happen if the right government is in place. So, it's going to be a slog. No other way around it.

So, if it were up to me to say, what is one thing we should do to help this going forward, it would be make education affordable for everyone. It is the best way to make the world a better place, long term, in my opinion.
 
andalusian said:
I do not disagree with any of this, I am just saying that the solution needs to be driven bottom up. Let's face it, regulation will only succeed if people elect / demand the right government - so, at the end of the day, it starts with people - and the way to get to people is through education, I guess, which is once again, only going to happen if the right government is in place. So, it's going to be a slog. No other way around it.

So, if it were up to me to say, what is one thing we should do to help this going forward, it would be make education affordable for everyone. It is the best way to make the world a better place, long term, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

E9P7_7vXoAYV9q2.jpg
 
andalusian said:
I do not disagree with any of this, I am just saying that the solution needs to be driven bottom up. Let's face it, regulation will only succeed if people elect / demand the right government - so, at the end of the day, it starts with people - and the way to get to people is through education, I guess, which is once again, only going to happen if the right government is in place. So, it's going to be a slog. No other way around it.

So, if it were up to me to say, what is one thing we should do to help this going forward, it would be make education affordable for everyone. It is the best way to make the world a better place, long term, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

You know the biggest impediment to Tuition Free College in this country? It's something that most don't talk about but it's pretty simple.

Our military enrollment would take a SERIOUS hit. The military offers funding for school as one of their main recruiting tools.

That is why you will see people fighting against it so vigorously but I agree, we should certainly pay for all of our kids to have that opportunity if they so wish. Trade schools should be an option as well.
 
ABM said:
I'll admit, I'm not the best at reducing my own carbon footprint. However, I'm about that close to quit buying plastic bottle water (I don't drink sodas or the like) and go with a home filter.

Also, a few other items at top of mind:

1) Separating out my trash
2) Donating to Goodwill and the like
3) Purchase a hybrid or all-electric vehicle
Click to expand...
Don't drink sodas? What about Jack Daniels and coke? What do you think happens to empty Jack Daniels bottles? Used for target practice in the woods.
 
dviss1 said:
Well then understand that you shouldn't get up in arms about people getting money when corporations are pounding us hand over fist.

In the time it takes to complain about a guy getting a snickers with his food stamp card, GE steals about $10K from us.

That little green sliver is NOT the reason for our budget woes...

Trump%20fy%2019%20budget%20pie%20chart.png
Click to expand...
At least food and agriculture gets a healthy cut of the pie while only a scant 2/3 goes to the military.
 
Exxon's Oil Drilling Gamble Off Guyana Coast Could Turn Country from Carbon Sink to "Carbon Bomb".

 
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