Economy Soars in Q4

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MrJayremmie

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Economy soars 5.7 percent, fastest in 6 years

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100129/bs_nm/us_usa_economy

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The economy grew at a faster-than-expected 5.7 percent pace in the fourth quarter, the quickest in more than six years, as businesses made less-aggressive cuts to inventories and stepped up spending.

The robust performance closed out a year in which the economy contracted 2.4 percent, the biggest decline since 1946.

After falling off a cliff at the start of the year, gross domestic product turned higher in the third quarter, and the quickening fourth-quarter pace reported by the Commerce Department on Friday suggested a sustainable recovery was building.

"Wow, great number. It's very solid and gives us a running start into the second half of the year when we can't rely on government stimulus," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago.

"That's part of the plan, to get us moving as fast as possible so when life support is removed we'll have a pulse."

U.S. stocks opened higher on the surprisingly strong data, while Treasury debt prices deepened losses. The dollar rose against the yen. Economists had expected GDP to rise at a 4.6 percent pace.

Getting the economy on a sustainable growth track remains one of the key challenges facing President Barack Obama, who on Wednesday outlined a raft of measures to create jobs and nurture the recovery.

In a further boost to recovery hopes, the Institute for Supply Management-Chicago said its business barometer rose to 61.5 in January, the highest in four years, from 58.7 in December.

Consumers grew more confident this month, another survey showed, which should support spending in the months ahead. The Reuters/University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers' January consumer sentiment rose to 74.4 from 72.5 in December.

Growth in the fourth quarter was buoyed by a sharp slowdown in the pace of inventory liquidation.

When businesses are selling off inventories, there is less need to step up production and therefore weighs on GDP. The slowing rate of inventory reduction in the fourth compared to the third quarter lifted GDP by nearly 3.4 percentage points.

It was the biggest percentage contribution inventories have made since the fourth quarter of 1987.

But even stripping out inventories, the economy expanded at an annual rate of 2.2 percent, accelerating from the 1.5 percent increase in the third quarter, reflecting relatively strong performance from other segments of the economy.

Still, this measure of final demand is meager compared with most normal recoveries, implying the Federal Reserve can bide its time before raising interest rates.

"The economy continues to improve, but we do not have an economic boom here," said John Silvia, chief economist at Wells Fargo Securities in Charlotte, North Carolina.

CONSUMER SPENDING SLOWS, BUSINESS INVESTMENT RISES

Consumer spending increased at a 2 percent annual rate in the fourth quarter, contributing 1.44 percentage points to GDP. In the third quarter, consumer spending had risen at a 2.8 percent pace, supported by the government's "cash for clunkers" auto incentive program.

Business investment grew at a 2.9 percent rate, the first increase since the second quarter of 2008, as the drag from the troubled commercial real estate sector was offset by robust spending on equipment and software.


The growth of spending on new home construction braked sharply in the fourth quarter to an annual rate of 5.7 percent from an 18.9 percent pace in the third quarter. Home building has received a lift from a popular tax credit for first-time buyers, but recent data have hinted at some weakness starting to creep in.

Export growth outpaced imports, narrowing the trade gap and adding half a percentage point to GDP growth in the last quarter.

A separate report from the Labor Department showed employment costs rose 0.5 percent in the fourth quarter, just a touch higher than analysts had expected.

Wages and salaries, which make up about 70 percent of compensation, and benefits were both up 0.5 percent, showing little inflation pressure arising from wages.

Interesting. Good news! I'm sure that Denny would have posted this if I failed to. Right?
 
Last edited:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wages-and-benefits-rise-weak-apf-4052349307.html?x=0&.v=1

Wages and benefits rise weak 1.5 percent in 2009
Wages and benefits rise in 2009 by smallest amount on records going back 27 years

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wages and benefits paid to U.S. workers posted a modest gain in the fourth quarter, ending a year in which recession-battered workers saw their compensation rise by the smallest amount on records going back more than a quarter-century.

The anemic gains have raised concerns about the durability of the economic recovery. The fear is that consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of economic activity, could falter if households don't have the income growth to support their spending.

The Labor Department said Friday that wages and benefits rose by 0.5 percent in the three months ending in December. For the entire year, wages and benefits were up 1.5 percent, the weakest showing on records that go back to 1982.

The 1.5 percent increase in total compensation in 2009 was about half the 2.6 percent increase in 2008 and both years represented the smallest gains for the government's Employment Compensation Index.

Last year, wages were up by just 1.5 percent and benefits rose by the same 1.5 percent, both record lows. In 2008, wages and salaries had been up 2.7 percent and benefits, which cover such things as health insurance and pension contributions, had risen by 2.2 percent.

The 0.5 percent rise in the fourth quarter for total compensation was slightly higher than the 0.4 percent advance economists had expected, and was the biggest quarterly gain since a 0.6 percent rise in the third quarter of 2008. Compensation had been up 0.4 percent in both the second and third quarters of this year.

Workers' compensation has been battered by the country's deep recession as a loss of 7.2 million jobs over the past two years has depressed wage gains. A separate report from the Labor Department earlier this month showed that nonsupervisory workers' inflation-adjusted weekly earnings fell by 1.6 percent last year, the sharpest drop since 1990.

The concern among economists is that the economic recovery that began in the summer could falter in coming months if consumer spending slows as households remain fearful about boosting spending in the face of such anemic wage growth.

The slow growth in employee compensation has allowed the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates at record low levels in an effort to jump-start economic activity since wage pressures, often a major force driving inflation higher, have been absent.

Basically, jobs are so scarce, the employee has no leverage and must take what the employer is willing to offer. They work harder for less because of a lack of opportunity elsewhere.
 
We can always count on the right to NEVER say that the Economy growing at a 5.7% pace in Q4 is good news. Well unless a republican was in office when this happened.

Gotta find something wrong.

Maxiep, why do you hate America? :)

Also, I think i'm going to be sending you some PMs regarding your degree. Did I hear correctly that you majored in Poli-Sci? If so, would it be okay if I picked your brain a bit about it? (Thinking of switching from Finance to Poli-Sci with a Finance minor).
 
BTW, once you strip out inventory reduction, 2.2% annualized growth is anemic. The GDP needs to grow at roughly 3% annually to keep our current standard of living.
 
We can always count on the right to NEVER say that the Economy growing at a 5.7% pace in Q4 is good news. Well unless a republican was in office when this happened.

Gotta find something wrong.

Maxiep, why do you hate America? :)

I'm an economist. It has nothing to do with left or right. The numbers are all that matter, and they stink.
 
I disagree that they stink, and i'm in my 2nd Eco. class with my third coming up in a few months.

I have a ton of respect for Economists. Hella smart. It is freakin' hard, but extremely interesting.

**check out my edit on the 3rd post**
 
I disagree that they stink, and i'm in my 2nd Eco. class with my third coming up in a few months.

I have a ton of respect for Economists. Hella smart. It is freakin' hard, but extremely interesting.

**check out my edit on the 3rd post**

To avoid being an even bigger a-hole that I usually am in this place, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
Wait... what?

The growth rate is a good sign and certainly doesn't stink. Of course it isn't where we want it to be.

And I took EC200, taking EC201, and will soon start 202 (Intro, Micro, Macro).
 
The growth rate is a good sign and certainly doesn't stink. Of course it isn't where we want it to be.

And I took EC200, taking EC201, and will soon start 202 (Intro, Micro, Macro).

I'm hoping I read that wrong.

It sure sounded like you were stating that you are qualified to decide if the numbers are good because you've taken "intro" and "micro" econ courses. :biglaugh:
 
The growth reported isn't from production, it's from the government propping up the economy with bailout money. That is not true growth.
 
<---(From a pretty ignorant economics point of view)

Almost every Joe Voter will think this is pretty good news, right? And whether it is or not macroeconomically, doesn't the concomitant rise in belief that "things are getting better" kind of make it a self-fulfilling prophecy? Granted, I recognize that a lot of people out there are still without work. But for those who have jobs and are in various stages of getting by, doesn't this say "It's looking up!" and reverse the trend of saving every penny you can? Anecdotally, I didn't spend much at Christmas this year, out of fear of more credit card debt and a slowing economy. But if this makes people think about buying more houses, or spending more at Wal-Mart or Macy's, or buying real Kraft Mac-and-Cheese instead of WinCo brand...is that a good thing? Or is fools' gold even worse than what we had before?
 
Because so much of the growth was chiefly attributed to restocking depleted shelves, many may question the sustainability of similar economic growth going forward.

From the Street.com
 
<---(From a pretty ignorant economics point of view)

Almost every Joe Voter will think this is pretty good news, right? And whether it is or not macroeconomically, doesn't the concomitant rise in belief that "things are getting better" kind of make it a self-fulfilling prophecy? Granted, I recognize that a lot of people out there are still without work. But for those who have jobs and are in various stages of getting by, doesn't this say "It's looking up!" and reverse the trend of saving every penny you can? Anecdotally, I didn't spend much at Christmas this year, out of fear of more credit card debt and a slowing economy. But if this makes people think about buying more houses, or spending more at Wal-Mart or Macy's, or buying real Kraft Mac-and-Cheese instead of WinCo brand...is that a good thing? Or is fools' gold even worse than what we had before?

I don't think even the American public is stupid enough to believe the economy is improving. Until jobs start to recover significantly, there is still going to be a fear.
 
The real issue is those of us in the investment class have no idea what the Government is going to do next. That uncertainty keeps money on the sidelines. Our crushing public debt load, the crazy legislation on deck threatening to make it worse and the anti-business attitude of this Administration combine to make investing in this environment a fool's errand.
 
Obama's Jobs bill: $5,000 tax credit for every new hire up to 100 workers, no matter the size of the corporation.
 
Obama's Jobs bill: $5,000 tax credit for every new hire up to 100 workers, no matter the size of the corporation.

Great. We pay our analysts a starting salary of $102K, and that doesn't include the bonus. That's a big fucking help.
 
The real issue is those of us in the investment class have no idea what the Government is going to do next. That uncertainty keeps money on the sidelines. Our crushing public debt load, the crazy legislation on deck threatening to make it worse and the anti-business attitude of this Administration combine to make investing in this environment a fool's errand.

So true. I've liquidated a lot of positions because of said uncertainty. It's at the point where the best thing to do with cash is loan sharking.
 
I think 33 billion is the number for this or so?

I wonder if I hire 2 employees at $10/hour, I can get $10k.
 
It should be noted that we've become leaner by laying off our support staffs. We've learned to live with less. I fear many other companies are doing the same thing. It doesn't bode well for the less educated who still want to earn a decent living.
 
It should be noted that we've become leaner by laying off our support staffs. We've learned to live with less. I fear many other companies are doing the same thing. It doesn't bode well for the less educated who still want to earn a decent living.

Overhiring is the downfall of many companies IMO. You end up with ineffieincies through many levels.

A lot of the processes you can outsource for cheaper.
 
Basically, jobs are so scarce, the employee has no leverage and must take what the employer is willing to offer. They work harder for less because of a lack of opportunity elsewhere.

Careful max you are starting to sound like a commie pinko liberal corrupt Union Organizer.
!:tsktsk: I can post these things because I belong to the IBEW, but you conservatives must be careful.:crazy:
 
I'm hoping I read that wrong.

It sure sounded like you were stating that you are qualified to decide if the numbers are good because you've taken "intro" and "micro" econ courses.

I was responding to Maxiep saying he was an economist, saying i've taken classes and I have a ton of respect for Economists because it is hell hard.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.
 
Almost every Joe Voter will think this is pretty good news, right? And whether it is or not macroeconomically, doesn't the concomitant rise in belief that "things are getting better" kind of make it a self-fulfilling prophecy? Granted, I recognize that a lot of people out there are still without work. But for those who have jobs and are in various stages of getting by, doesn't this say "It's looking up!" and reverse the trend of saving every penny you can? Anecdotally, I didn't spend much at Christmas this year, out of fear of more credit card debt and a slowing economy. But if this makes people think about buying more houses, or spending more at Wal-Mart or Macy's, or buying real Kraft Mac-and-Cheese instead of WinCo brand...is that a good thing? Or is fools' gold even worse than what we had before?

I think it is silly to act like this isn't good news. Sure, you can find fallacies to make people think that it isn't as good as it looks (and it isn't), but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Economy grew at that pace in Q4, better than the alternative, no?
 

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