Exclusive End of Season Fire/Keep Poll

[BonesJones]

Alright, but when you make it big I hope I better be your go to "Cap Guy"...

The Knicks trade: The date for those guys to decide if they are picking up their option or not is June 29th, which is after the draft. Going into the draft it is likely that the Knicks won't know if they will have cap space or not to make a lopsided trade. Therefore there is no way that the Knicks would draft the guy we want not even knowing if they can accept that trade anyway. Even if possible they'd have to renounce the rights to Kanter, O'Quinn, and Baker leaving them very thin up front with no cap space or picks to change that. There are just too many factors here for the Knicks. Best case scenario they have about $25 million in cap space and the difference in this deal (keep in mind you have to use next years salary numbers since the Knicks don't have cap space now) is $24.3 million meaning even if every single variable worked out for this trade it would be very close to not working.

That's one thing and its not a CBA issue, it's a player option date issue. I know my CBA haha, just didn't think about the option date.

Send Thomas back to us then, without sending Harkless there. Then, once/if they have the cap space, send Harkless there if we sign Tyreke, and keep Harkless here if we dont.

 

[BonesJones]

Bulls trade: First off their owner is a cheapskate. He's not going to take on that much money for one 1st round draft pick. Assuming they renounced Vonleh, waited to sign LaVine until after this trade, and kept guys like Zipser and Nwaba for cheap then they can probably get to about $30 million in cap space so technically it's possible but our pick a year away is not worth all that cap space to them.

You can find another team that wants Evan Turner with a 1st. Meyers for Asik is an even swap.

 

[BonesJones]

The Signings: Lets say we got to this point in your scenario despite everything I just said about the Knicks and Bulls. Assuming we waited to sign Nurk we'd have just enough to sign Evans to the deal you presented, although I'll ignore that I don't know why he'd accept another short term deal like that. Do you know what happens when you go under the cap? Bye bye MLE. You don't get it anymore. The only thing we'd have is the Room Exception which is expected to be $4.4 million. Do you think Davis would sign for that? No way, we'd be super thin for bigs (I think we could still keep PapaG in your scenario though). We'd have to fill out 3 spots with vet min players.

That's what I'm referring to, the Room Exception, which is sometimes referred to as the Cap Space MLE.

I think Davis would sign for that. He wants to stay here and the market won't offer him much more.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's one thing and its not a CBA issue, it's a player option date issue. I know my CBA haha, just didn't think about the option date.

Send Thomas back to us then, without sending Harkless there. Then, once/if they have the cap space, send Harkless there if we sign Tyreke, and keep Harkless here if we dont.

Nope, they can't do CJ for Thomas and Lee either. It still doesn't work and they won't know until after the draft. The timing just doesn't work out. We'd not only have to take back more salary but taking on Thomas means we could only offer Evans about $10 million minus whatever else we take back from them.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's what I'm referring to, the Room Exception, which is sometimes referred to as the Cap Space MLE.

I think Davis would sign for that. He wants to stay here and the market won't offer him much more.

Dude, I know you're trying really hard but there is no fucking way Davis would take over a $2 million pay cut to that little of an amount just because he likes it here. Zero chance.

 

[hoopsjock]

You can find another team that wants Evan Turner with a 1st. Meyers for Asik is an even swap.

No Asik and Leonard is not an even swap. I posted this the other day:

Meyers owed $21,882,023
Asik owed $14,286516

That is over $7.5 million less.

As for Turner, no team is going to take his contract on until at minimum the trade deadline this coming season when he has 1.5 years left. You'd have to include multiple 1st rounders AND find a team that completely strikes out in free agency. This is a huge pipe dream.

 

[BonesJones]

Nope, they can't do CJ for Thomas and Lee either. It still doesn't work and they won't know until after the draft. The timing just doesn't work out. We'd not only have to take back more salary but taking on Thomas means we could only offer Evans about $10 million minus whatever else we take back from them.

Yeah it has to be with $5M or 125% sheesh... I was suggesting something that's get it closer.. didn't know I needed to list the $1M in filler to not get some rebuttal.

 

[BonesJones]

No Asik and Leonard is not an even swap. I posted this the other day:

Meyers owed $21,882,023
Asik owed $14,286516

That is over $7.5 million less.

As for Turner, no team is going to take his contract on until at minimum the trade deadline this coming season when he has 1.5 years left. You'd have to include multiple 1st rounders AND find a team that completely strikes out in free agency. This is a huge pipe dream.

I know, but if we're talking about getting cap space this year, they're even. Ask has $3M owed if he opts in. Ive said that a couple times in the past couple of weeks...

BKN took on Carroll for a 1st. I know Carroll is a couple MIL less and slightly better, but it's the same scenario. So you're extremely overexagerating what it'd take to get rid of Turner.

 

[hoopsjock]

Yeah it has to be with $5M or 125% sheesh... I was suggesting something that's get it closer.. didn't know I needed to list the $1M in filler to not get some rebuttal.

The problem is the more you send back the less players the Knicks have on their roster so you have to start factoring in cap holds for roster spots and the amount of cap space it eats into what we'd have available for Tyreke. Don't get snippy because your plan isn't working.

 

[hoopsjock]

I know, but if we're talking about getting cap space this year, they're even. Ask has $3M owed if he opts in. Ive said that a couple times in the past couple of weeks...

BKN took on Carroll for a 1st. I know Carroll is a couple MIL less and slightly better, but it's the same scenario. So you're extremely overexagerating what it'd take to get rid of Turner.

Well the Nets aren't going to have the salary space to do trades like this anymore. Turner makes more money, is arguably not as good of a player as Carroll, and the Nets were a rare situation where they were desperate for picks due to the stupid trades of Billy King. You can't say that on one hand no one is going to offer much to Davis due to a lack of cap space out there and then think that teams would be willing to use that precious space for Evan fucking Turner.

Edit: You edited your post and said some of the things I just said while typing this.

 

[dviss1]

Vote for one from each letter.

A2

B2

C3

 

[BonesJones]

The problem is the more you send back the less players the Knicks have on their roster so you have to start factoring in cap holds for roster spots and the amount of cap space it eats into what we'd have available for Tyreke. Don't get snippy because your plan isn't working.

Its the fact that ya feel the need to point out that shit wouldn't work because there'd need to be $1M in salary filler added lmao. Fine, I'll make sure to name every filler peice needed.

 

[BonesJones]

Well the Nets aren't going to have the salary space to do trades like this anymore. Turner makes more money, is arguably not as good of a player as Carroll, and the Nets were a rare situation where they were desperate for picks due to the stupid trades of Billy King. You can't say that on one hand no one is going to offer much to Davis due to a lack of cap space out there and then think that teams would be willing to use that precious space for Evan fucking Turner.

Edit: You edited your post and said some of the things I just said while typing this.

I didnt edit anything?

 

[hoopsjock]

Its the fact that ya feel the need to point out that shit wouldn't work because there'd need to be $1M in salary filler added lmao. Fine, I'll make sure to name every filler peice needed.

That really wasn't the intention, it was that on top of the other 4,789 things I pointed out already as to why it wouldn't work.

 

[BonesJones]

That really wasn't the intention, it was that on top of the other 4,789 things I pointed out already as to why it wouldn't work.

Alright, we get it. You know it all.

 

[dviss1]

I really like Billups, Wright, and Bridges. Don't trade for Fournier though. He's trash defensively.

Maybe:
- Hire Billups and Wright
- Trade CJ, Harkless to New York for 9th Pick, 2020 1st, (Top 5 Protected) & Courtney Lee (Works cap wise assuming Baker, O'Quinn and Kanter opt out)
- Draft Mikal Bridges, Chandler Hutchison
- Trade Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, Caleb Swanigan, 2019 1st to CHI for Omer Asik
- Sign Tyreke Evans 2 years, $35M (Team Option)
- Resign Nurkic and Davis (using cap space MLE after being renounced)

Would like to find a better backup PG. Could use ours and NYKs 2020 1sts


Lillard / Baldwin
Evans / Lee
Bridges / Hutchison
Collins / Aminu
Nurkic / Davis

I love this. Every bit.

 

[hoopsjock]

Alright, we get it. You know it all.

You can call me a know it all if you want, just like I mentioned to others I'm going to call people out that post unrealistic scenarios. People read your post and get excited and want/expect something like that to happen. I provide the reality check that it's not. I hope you can appreciate the fact that I took the time to explain why instead of just getting defensive about it.

If we somehow came away from this off season with Mikal Bridges and Hutchinson I will be doing back flips, so I would love for your scenario to pan out that way. I did the math wanting it to work.

 

[FlashWad]

I voted for the following :
A.) Fire Neil Olshey
B.) Fire Terry Stotts
C.) Shop C.J. McCollum But Only For the Right Deal

I would rather miss the playoffs then get there and get swept in the first round every season. That way we can atleast get some better young talent in the draft. We need total change or this will be a never ending loop of melting down in the playoffs. Stotts needs to go, 10 straight playoff losses is unacceptable especially if you are the 3rd seed going up against a 6. He gives too much freedom to players and does not reprehend them when they do something wrong.
Neil needs to go also. Secretly I'm pretty sure Neil hates Portland. I don't blame him at all for not being able to land the top talent in the free agency market but overpaying for Crabbe, Leonard and Turner is not going to cut it, I believe he would of been fired last year without that Nurkic trade anyway. We need to cut our losses and start fresh while Dame is still in his prime. We are great city with the best fans in the NBA, We have some talent we are just badly mismanaged.

 

[BonesJones]

Version 2.0

POR Gets: 9th Pick, Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas
NYK Gets: C.J McCollum Evan Turner, 2018 & 2019 DAL 2nds, Cash from DAL & ATL
DAL Gets: Tim Hardaway Jr, Jake Layman
ATL Gets: Emmanuel Mudiay, Meyers Leonard, 2019 MIN/LAL 2nd, 2021 POR 2nd

- NYK still gets CJ, and also gets back Turner, Swanigan, and adds a couple 2nds (instead of giving up nother 1st) for Hardaway, Thomas, and Mudiay in this revision.
- DAL has loads of cap space and getting a young wing to start at SG makes sense. Other destinations for Hardaway could include PHX, CHI, etc.
- ATL has no PGs behind Dennis Schroeder, and might take the chance at turning Mudiay into something. They won't be able to land Free Agents and has $30M-$40M in cap space next year with some bad contracts expiring already, so Leonard isn't a hit, and could be another interesting experiment for them. Two 2nds with it makes it worth it.

NYK Outgoing: Lee ($12.253M) + Hardaway ($17.325M) + Thomas ($7.119M) + Muday ($4.294M) = $40.991M
NYK Incoming: McCollum ($25.759M) + Turner (17.868M) + Swanigan ($1.740) = $45.367M

POR Raw Salary Total for 2018-2019 after this: ~$74M
With Nurkic & Davis Cap Holds: ~90M
(Nurkic is apx. $7.5M (250%?), Davis is ~$9.5 (150%)? Not sure. Considering Davis likely won't make more than $9M, if it's higher we could renounce him then save.

Draft Bridges+Hutchison: ~$4M against cap
With Nurkic & Davis Cap Holds: ~94M

Renounce Napier and Connaughton
If Tyreke signs, shop Harkless across the league for the cap space. NYK could take him if they have Kanter and others opt-out. DAL, CHI, ATL, BKN, & PHX are all possibilities.
Harkless saves ~$11M
Leaving a payroll of ~$84M
Salary cap was projected at $101M, but considering a report saying NBA is making more than expected, lets say $102.5M.
So lets count the players/cap holds we have:
Players (7): Lillard, Lee, Thomas, Briges, Hutchison, Aminu, Collins,
Cap Holds (2): Nurkic, Davis

That leaves $85.5 in salary obligations, leaving us $17M a year to sign Tyreke (A little more if Davis signs for less).

So that's feasible based off the CBA. Still a pipedream, as it'd require New York really valuing C.J. and some other teams to work it out, but it's feasible, and it'd be awesome for us. Would still leave the Room Exception (preferably for a PG who could create for himself and others, like the year we had from Mo Williams), and would result in the same lineup I stated earlier.

Lillard / Baldwin
Evans / Lee
Bridges / Hutchison
Collins / Aminu
Nurkic / Davis

 

[BonesJones]

You can call me a know it all if you want, just like I mentioned to others I'm going to call people out that post unrealistic scenarios. People read your post and get excited and want/expect something like that to happen. I provide the reality check that it's not. I hope you can appreciate the fact that I took the time to explain why instead of just getting defensive about it.

If we somehow came away from this off season with Mikal Bridges and Hutchinson I will be doing back flips, so I would love for your scenario to pan out that way. I did the math wanting it to work.

I don't expect something like that to happen, but anything I post is at least close to being feasible the way it is under the CBA, and would take maneuverability to make happen, but look... Got the same lineup with a CBA-feasible series of moves.

Either way though, it's still a pipedream. A realistic scenario doesn't involve us getting cap space, but Tyreke Evans is so perfect for us that I had to figure out a way we could sign him.

There's much more likely C.J. to NYK trades that involve us taking back Thomas, Dotson, Lee, and the 9th pick for C.J. That would still allow us to get Bridges. However, it wouldn't give us the ability to sign Evans down the road.

 

[borim69]

Keep Olshey
Fire Stotts
Shop CJ
I like Stotts but I think he was the right coach for lamucus and his style of play he is not the right coach for any of our other bigs except maybe Meyers who is a bust. I am on the fence with Olshey but I do not think it is all his fault he was given a direction and he did what he could. CJ or Dame shop would not be a bad idea but it would have to be for the right deal.

What is the ruling on buying out contracts? Can we buyout Meyers and Turner and it only counts on this years cap or will it count for the entire time?

 

[hoopsjock]

Keep Olshey
Fire Stotts
Shop CJ
I like Stotts but I think he was the right coach for lamucus and his style of play he is not the right coach for any of our other bigs except maybe Meyers who is a bust. I am on the fence with Olshey but I do not think it is all his fault he was given a direction and he did what he could. CJ or Dame shop would not be a bad idea but it would have to be for the right deal.

What is the ruling on buying out contracts? Can we buyout Meyers and Turner and it only counts on this years cap or will it count for the entire time?

Buyouts aren't an option. Their full contract stays on the books and then you can't trade them either. Stretching their contracts would be an even bigger mistake because then they'd count against the cap for big payments for 5 years instead of 2.

 

[hoopsjock]

I don't expect something like that to happen, but anything I post is at least close to being feasible the way it is under the CBA, and would take maneuverability to make happen, but look... Got the same lineup with a CBA-feasible series of moves.

Either way though, it's still a pipedream. A realistic scenario doesn't involve us getting cap space, but Tyreke Evans is so perfect for us that I had to figure out a way we could sign him.

There's much more likely C.J. to NYK trades that involve us taking back Thomas, Dotson, Lee, and the 9th pick for C.J. That would still allow us to get Bridges. However, it wouldn't give us the ability to sign Evans down the road.

There is a reason why getting cap space for Tyreke isn't realistic. Sure the trades you made now work but c'mon a four way trade with that many parts and picks isn't likely. I think you should stick to the NY one like you mentioned in the last paragraph of the previous post. If it were as easy as you think to get rid of contracts the Knicks would add Joakim Noah to this deal. Teams aren't going to be lining up to take on bad contracts without ones going out. You can MAYBE find one team to take Leonard but Atlanta wouldn't do that four way trade.

If cap space is the goal I think 2019 is the best we can hope for.

 

[hoopsjock]

Version 2.0

POR Gets: 9th Pick, Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas
NYK Gets: C.J McCollum Evan Turner, 2018 & 2019 DAL 2nds, Cash from DAL & ATL
DAL Gets: Tim Hardaway Jr, Jake Layman
ATL Gets: Emmanuel Mudiay, Meyers Leonard, 2019 MIN/LAL 2nd, 2021 POR 2nd

- NYK still gets CJ, and also gets back Turner, Swanigan, and adds a couple 2nds (instead of giving up nother 1st) for Hardaway, Thomas, and Mudiay in this revision.
- DAL has loads of cap space and getting a young wing to start at SG makes sense. Other destinations for Hardaway could include PHX, CHI, etc.
- ATL has no PGs behind Dennis Schroeder, and might take the chance at turning Mudiay into something. They won't be able to land Free Agents and has $30M-$40M in cap space next year with some bad contracts expiring already, so Leonard isn't a hit, and could be another interesting experiment for them. Two 2nds with it makes it worth it.

NYK Outgoing: Lee ($12.253M) + Hardaway ($17.325M) + Thomas ($7.119M) + Muday ($4.294M) = $40.991M
NYK Incoming: McCollum ($25.759M) + Turner (17.868M) + Swanigan ($1.740) = $45.367M

POR Raw Salary Total for 2018-2019 after this: ~$74M
With Nurkic & Davis Cap Holds: ~90M
(Nurkic is apx. $7.5M (250%?), Davis is ~$9.5 (150%)? Not sure. Considering Davis likely won't make more than $9M, if it's higher we could renounce him then save.

Draft Bridges+Hutchison: ~$4M against cap
With Nurkic & Davis Cap Holds: ~94M

Renounce Napier and Connaughton
If Tyreke signs, shop Harkless across the league for the cap space. NYK could take him if they have Kanter and others opt-out. DAL, CHI, ATL, BKN, & PHX are all possibilities.
Harkless saves ~$11M
Leaving a payroll of ~$84M
Salary cap was projected at $101M, but considering a report saying NBA is making more than expected, lets say $102.5M.
So lets count the players/cap holds we have:
Players (7): Lillard, Lee, Thomas, Briges, Hutchison, Aminu, Collins,
Cap Holds (2): Nurkic, Davis

That leaves $85.5 in salary obligations, leaving us $17M a year to sign Tyreke (A little more if Davis signs for less).

So that's feasible based off the CBA. Still a pipedream, as it'd require New York really valuing C.J. and some other teams to work it out, but it's feasible, and it'd be awesome for us. Would still leave the Room Exception (preferably for a PG who could create for himself and others, like the year we had from Mo Williams), and would result in the same lineup I stated earlier.

Lillard / Baldwin
Evans / Lee
Bridges / Hutchison
Collins / Aminu
Nurkic / Davis

Nurks cap hold is $8,841,915.

Davis cap hold is $12,069,809.

Having only 9 guys under contract means we'd have 3 roster spot holds at a rough estimate of $600,000 each for a total of $1.8 million.

Off the $101 million cap the rookie holds would be a little over $4.5 million.

Some minor differences but all that adds up to not having enough to offer Tyreke more than about $11 million if the cap is $102.5 or $9.5 million if the cap is the expected $101 million. So even if I play along that those other teams would take our bad contracts it would still be tough to get Tyreke.

The only thing you could do is offer Davis like 3 years, $21 million right away and hope he takes it without being offended. That would be $5 million under his cap hold and give us about $14.5 for Tyreke but once again every other situation would have to happen. I didn't check your math but I'm assuming your numbers incuded the Varejao, Nicholson, and Ezeli dead numbers.

 

[tykendo]

I 'm for keeping Olshey. I know that's not a popular choice, but he did, draft Dame, trade of Nurkic, and help the team stay competitive after LaMarcus said "F" to the franchise and city with his BS move. Yes, he has made some poor decisions(ET, Meyers, Harkless, and Crabbe), mostly the amount of money paid those players. That was a crazy summer, contract wise ,around the league. I think ET has worked out OK. Harkless, when motivated, is a nice role player. Meyers was a disaster. Crabbe's trade wasn't good IMO. Blazers could use his talents. But was he forced to do that deal to save money? I'm just not confident that a newby GM makes things better.

 

[tykendo]

Man! I don't trade CJ for a draftpick and fodder in any scenario. CJ for a deal that brings Kawhi, hell yes, but not for an unproven college kid, and some castoffs. Makes no sense at all.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Man! I don't trade CJ for a draftpick and fodder in any scenario. CJ for a deal that brings Kawhi, hell yes, but not for an unproven college kid, and some castoffs. Makes no sense at all.

For a Top five i would. Nothing less thiugh and would prefer top three.