Enes Kanter's game is garbage (3 Viewers)

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TorturedBlazerFan said:
Ive seen some Neural Nets in video games like starcraft2. Its kind of bad but Ive lost that like “awe” of technology. Havent seen anything in a long time that really made me go, “oh wow”. I think its just seeing it every day kind of makes me take it for granted.
Have you ever made Neural Net? Its actually pretty fun to screw around with. I built one last summer as just a random project for fun, I was just using it to see if I could make enemies learn player behaviors turns out I could.
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Yeah I know what you mean. Once you understand a technology pretty well, it kind of loses its magic. I believe DeepMind made a StarCraft2 NN that is defeating the best players or doing really well. That's probably what you are referring to?

I've was playing around with NN's in the mid 1980's making evolutionary NN's by defining a "world" with made up rules for them to survive and reproduce in. Rather than back-propping their learning, they had to evolve weights by random mutation & compete with survival of the fittest. It was kind of cool, they learned to run around and seek food, and other behaviors that made them look as if they had insect level intelligence.

Here is an interesting article. It has examples of recurrent NN's learning different stuff, from C code to Shakespeare to math proofs. They are all form and no substance, but the form is pretty funny.
http://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/

Here is some pseudo Shakespeare produced by a NN after reading Shakespeare for a while...

PANDARUS:
Alas, I think he shall be come approached and the day
When little srain would be attain'd into being never fed,
And who is but a chain and subjects of his death,
I should not sleep.

Second Senator:
They are away this miseries, produced upon my soul,
Breaking and strongly should be buried, when I perish
The earth and thoughts of many states.

DUKE VINCENTIO:
Well, your wit is in the care of side and that.

Second Lord:
They would be ruled after this chamber, and
my fair nues begun out of the fact, to be conveyed,
Whose noble souls I'll have the heart of the wars.

Clown:
Come, sir, I will make did behold your worship.

VIOLA:
I'll drink it.
 
bobf said:
Yeah I know what you mean. Once you understand a technology pretty well, it kind of loses its magic. I believe DeepMind made a StarCraft2 NN that is defeating the best players or doing really well. That's probably what you are referring to?

I've was playing around with NN's in the mid 1980's making evolutionary NN's by defining a "world" with made up rules for them to survive and reproduce in. Rather than back-propping their learning, they had to evolve weights by random mutation & compete with survival of the fittest. It was kind of cool, they learned to run around and seek food, and other behaviors that made them look as if they had insect level intelligence.

Here is an interesting article. It has examples of recurrent NN's learning different stuff, from C code to Shakespeare to math proofs. They are all form and no substance, but the form is pretty funny.
http://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/

Here is some pseudo Shakespeare produced by a NN after reading Shakespeare for a while...

PANDARUS:
Alas, I think he shall be come approached and the day
When little srain would be attain'd into being never fed,
And who is but a chain and subjects of his death,
I should not sleep.

Second Senator:
They are away this miseries, produced upon my soul,
Breaking and strongly should be buried, when I perish
The earth and thoughts of many states.

DUKE VINCENTIO:
Well, your wit is in the care of side and that.

Second Lord:
They would be ruled after this chamber, and
my fair nues begun out of the fact, to be conveyed,
Whose noble souls I'll have the heart of the wars.

Clown:
Come, sir, I will make did behold your worship.

VIOLA:
I'll drink it.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Shakespeare got hammmmerred heh.
Also, I think that Deep Mind is the NN I saw facing the SC2 Pro's. Since APM (action's per minute) is so important, it seems like the NN would have an extremely unfair advantage. Now in a game like chess or something turn-based, I think that's a more even match.
I'm a little surprised to hear someone who was making NN's in the mid-1980s is using C# (which is sort of a newer language), did you come from C?

Ultimately I just see technology as a tool, nothing more or less. I'm going to do my best to use the tools to help people though.

I feel like there's a couple of type of people in SW, those who think every single thing is the most amazing thing ever and is the way of the future and the people who are just like, "yup" I get how they did that, and that's "cool". heh. My boss is very much the type of every single new thing in the tech/software world is the most impressive thing he's ever seen. I'm the downer of the group that just points out to him how it works, how maybe it's not as magical as he thought, but it's still cool and useful.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Sounds like Shakespeare got hammmmerred heh.
Also, I think that Deep Mind is the NN I saw facing the SC2 Pro's. Since APM (action's per minute) is so important, it seems like the NN would have an extremely unfair advantage. Now in a game like chess or something turn-based, I think that's a more even match.
I'm a little surprised to hear someone who was making NN's in the mid-1980s is using C# (which is sort of a newer language), did you come from C?

Ultimately I just see technology as a tool, nothing more or less. I'm going to do my best to use the tools to help people though.

I feel like there's a couple of type of people in SW, those who think every single thing is the most amazing thing ever and is the way of the future and the people who are just like, "yup" I get how they did that, and that's "cool". heh. My boss is very much the type of every single new thing in the tech/software world is the most impressive thing he's ever seen. I'm the downer of the group that just points out to him how it works, how maybe it's not as magical as he thought, but it's still cool and useful.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was doing C back then. I did a little C++ but then C# as soon as Visual Studio came out. It's so much easier to deal with than C or C++ not having to deal with memory management.

Mostly I'm like you with the new technology. There's so much "fadware" out there you always have to ask if this new thing is for real or just some crap that will suck you and and leave you hanging in a few years. I do find what DeepMind is doing pretty amazing. It learned chess in 8 hours just from self play with no "teaching" the NN what is good or bad. It learned all the human openings and some of the games are just beautiful. Full of long term sacrifices that typical engines will never do.

But I think they are far far away from real AI, like a computer that can converse, that kind of thing. I think they have no idea about how that works. Our brains are damn amazing.
 
bobf said:
Yeah I was doing C back then. I did a little C++ but then C# as soon as Visual Studio came out. It's so much easier to deal with than C or C++ not having to deal with memory management.

Mostly I'm like you with the new technology. There's so much "fadware" out there you always have to ask if this new thing is for real or just some crap that will suck you and and leave you hanging in a few years. I do find what DeepMind is doing pretty amazing. It learned chess in 8 hours just from self play with no "teaching" the NN what is good or bad. It learned all the human openings and some of the games are just beautiful. Full of long term sacrifices that typical engines will never do.

But I think they are far far away from real AI, like a computer that can converse, that kind of thing. I think they have no idea about how that works. Our brains are damn amazing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, moving from C#, to C++ for this current project, all the stack / heap, referencing, dereferencing, pointers all that memory management has become like the biggest chore in the universe.
Like today for instance we decided to move to a linux distro thats on 16.04 instead of 14.04 just to find out that the 16.04 distro that works with the arm processor doesnt actually work with any of our c++ 11 or newer code, anyways long story short c++ is probably
my favorite language its up there with a couple others, but it seems to be fighting against us more then others.

I agree in that I think the whole computers doing everything the human brain can do is still quite aways away. The Human brain is just amazing.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Yeah, moving from C#, to C++ for this current project, all the stack / heap, referencing, dereferencing, pointers all that memory management has become like the biggest chore in the universe.
Like today for instance we decided to move to a linux distro thats on 16.04 instead of 14.04 just to find out that the 16.04 distro that works with the arm processor doesnt actually work with any of our c++ 11 or newer code, anyways long story short c++ is probably
my favorite language its up there with a couple others, but it seems to be fighting against us more then others.

I agree in that I think the whole computers doing everything the human brain can do is still quite aways away. The Human brain is just amazing.
Click to expand...
Screen Shot 2019-03-11 at 8.18.00 PM.png
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Yeah, moving from C#, to C++ for this current project, all the stack / heap, referencing, dereferencing, pointers all that memory management has become like the biggest chore in the universe.
Like today for instance we decided to move to a linux distro thats on 16.04 instead of 14.04 just to find out that the 16.04 distro that works with the arm processor doesnt actually work with any of our c++ 11 or newer code, anyways long story short c++ is probably
my favorite language its up there with a couple others, but it seems to be fighting against us more then others.
Click to expand...

you guys have it easy

my first experience at a programming language was using COBOL and the interface was a stack of punch cards. We were still in Vietnam, Nixon was yapping about "peace with honor", the Stones had an album cover with a zipper on it, gals had hair under their arms (in Eugene at least), and pot was sold in lids

anyway, that experience with programming probably explains why I picked up a hammer and went into construction

TorturedBlazerFan said:
The Human brain is just amazing.
Click to expand...

wut?....you say that after seeing what the brains in this forum come up with?
 
wizenheimer said:
you guys have it easy

my first experience at a programming language was using COBOL and the interface was a stack of punch cards. We were still in Vietnam, Nixon was yapping about "peace with honor", the Stones had an album cover with a zipper on it, gals had hair under their arms (in Eugene at least), and pot was sold in lids

anyway, that experience with programming probably explains why I picked up a hammer and went into construction



wut?....you say that after seeing what the brains in this forum come up with?
Click to expand...

Sticky Fingers!
 
Yes he is garbage, he gonna be unplayable in the Playoffs
 
wizenheimer said:
you guys have it easy

my first experience at a programming language was using COBOL and the interface was a stack of punch cards. We were still in Vietnam, Nixon was yapping about "peace with honor", the Stones had an album cover with a zipper on it, gals had hair under their arms (in Eugene at least), and pot was sold in lids

anyway, that experience with programming probably explains why I picked up a hammer and went into construction



wut?....you say that after seeing what the brains in this forum come up with?
Click to expand...
I'm often amazed by the history of computer science, the people who started this were crazy intelligent. I have no inclination to want to go back to the old coding practices though heh.
 
This guy not too thrilled with the acquisition and he is not even mentioning effect on Collins:
ENES KANTER
Since signing Enes Kanter, a graduate of the Dwight Howard School for Centers Who Won‘t Stop Telling Jokes, the Blazers have been an absurd 25.7 points per 100 possessions worse whenever Kanter is on the floor. Portland’s 7–3 record since Kanter’s signing is almost in spite of him. PDX is playing lights out when Kanter is on the bench, and basically he’s handicapping the team when he plays. It’s just unclear where the room is for guys like Kanter in today’s game. He’s certainly a talented scorer, but Portland’s offensive rating craters to 98.6 when Kanter plays. (Pace and efficiency take big hits as well.) He has always been skilled at getting his own buckets, but not necessarily to the benefit of his team. Even more troubling is Portland has stunk when Kanter has shared the floor with Dame Lillard and C.J. McCollum. Combine that with unreliable defense, and Kanter could end up actively hurting Portland if Terry Stotts doesn’t have a quick hook come playoff time.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/14/b...hews-enes-kanter-carmelo-anthony-andrew-bogut
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
This guy not too thrilled with the acquisition and he is not even mentioning effect on Collins:
ENES KANTER
Since signing Enes Kanter, a graduate of the Dwight Howard School for Centers Who Won‘t Stop Telling Jokes, the Blazers have been an absurd 25.7 points per 100 possessions worse whenever Kanter is on the floor. Portland’s 7–3 record since Kanter’s signing is almost in spite of him. PDX is playing lights out when Kanter is on the bench, and basically he’s handicapping the team when he plays. It’s just unclear where the room is for guys like Kanter in today’s game. He’s certainly a talented scorer, but Portland’s offensive rating craters to 98.6 when Kanter plays. (Pace and efficiency take big hits as well.) He has always been skilled at getting his own buckets, but not necessarily to the benefit of his team. Even more troubling is Portland has stunk when Kanter has shared the floor with Dame Lillard and C.J. McCollum. Combine that with unreliable defense, and Kanter could end up actively hurting Portland if Terry Stotts doesn’t have a quick hook come playoff time.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/14/b...hews-enes-kanter-carmelo-anthony-andrew-bogut
Click to expand...
I only give so much weight to analytics, but when a guy’s +/- has been well into the minus in virtually every game he’s played for us regardless of who he plays with or for how ever many minutes he plays, that has to be concerning. But 7-3 is (mostly on the road) is still damn good.....
 
Natebishop3 said:
The guy is rebounding out of his mind.... which is impressive considering his health and Ramadan.

He wasn't a defensive player when we brought him in. We knew that. He is what he is. I'm not mad at Enes.
Click to expand...

Wrong Quote? Lol. I was calling you a nerd.

:)

Im not mad at him either. Im thankful for him and his efforts.
 
Impressive that he can play as well as he is without any hydration or nutrition throughout the day (or game).
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
This guy not too thrilled with the acquisition and he is not even mentioning effect on Collins:
ENES KANTER
Since signing Enes Kanter, a graduate of the Dwight Howard School for Centers Who Won‘t Stop Telling Jokes, the Blazers have been an absurd 25.7 points per 100 possessions worse whenever Kanter is on the floor. Portland’s 7–3 record since Kanter’s signing is almost in spite of him. PDX is playing lights out when Kanter is on the bench, and basically he’s handicapping the team when he plays. It’s just unclear where the room is for guys like Kanter in today’s game. He’s certainly a talented scorer, but Portland’s offensive rating craters to 98.6 when Kanter plays. (Pace and efficiency take big hits as well.) He has always been skilled at getting his own buckets, but not necessarily to the benefit of his team. Even more troubling is Portland has stunk when Kanter has shared the floor with Dame Lillard and C.J. McCollum. Combine that with unreliable defense, and Kanter could end up actively hurting Portland if Terry Stotts doesn’t have a quick hook come playoff time.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/14/b...hews-enes-kanter-carmelo-anthony-andrew-bogut
Click to expand...

LOL. Analytics can suck it.
 
Labinot41 said:
Bump

Click to expand...

When Enes drops out of playing defense like this, Blazer coaches must respond immediately by substituting Meyers in his place! This video clip is a convincing summary of why Enes (tired, injured, fasting, and standing passively) should have been on the bench. Meyers plays determined hustle defense, sets screens, passes, and scores more points per FGA than any other Blazer. In Game 2, let's play Meyers and win!
 
swish3 said:
When Enes drops out of playing defense like this, Blazer coaches must respond immediately by substituting Meyers in his place! This video clip is a convincing summary of why Enes (tired, injured, fasting, and standing passively) should have been on the bench. Meyers plays determined hustle defense, sets screens, passes, and scores more points per FGA than any other Blazer. In Game 2, let's play Meyers and win!
Click to expand...
Don't you have a couple other Meyers Leonard threads going? This thread never was, and will never be; about Meyers Leonard. Move along now.....
 
swish3 said:
When Enes drops out of playing defense like this, Blazer coaches must respond immediately by substituting Meyers in his place! This video clip is a convincing summary of why Enes (tired, injured, fasting, and standing passively) should have been on the bench. Meyers plays determined hustle defense, sets screens, passes, and scores more points per FGA than any other Blazer. In Game 2, let's play Meyers and win!
Click to expand...

Im honestly confused... Is there such a thing as undetermined hustle?
 
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