Enhanced Interrogation My Arse

[deception]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/22/cia-interrogation-report-leaked

CIA interrogators threatened a captured al-Qaida leader with a power drill and a pistol in what was described as a mock execution, according to a long-suppressed report due to be released on Monday.

Details of the report by the spy agency's inspector general have emerged in the Washington Post and Newsweek. The full findings on the CIA's interrogation programme are to be made public after a federal judge upheld an appeal from the American Civil Liberties Union for their release.

The report is understood to describe mock executions where interrogators tried to get detainees to talk by firing a gun in an adjoining room to pretend another prisoner had been killed.

According to leaked information from the report, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri was threatened with a drill and gun during his detention at one of the CIA's so-called black site prisons after his capture in 2002. He was subjected to the near-drowning technique known as waterboarding, as were two other al-Qaida leaders.

Nashiri, who remains in detention at Guantánamo Bay, has been accused of masterminding the 1999 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 American sailors.

Sources familiar with the report told the Washington Post that Nashiri was threatened with death or grave injury during his questioning. A CIA officer showed Nashiri a gun and suggested he would be shot, and a power drill was held near Nashiri's body and repeatedly turned on and off. US law on torture prohibits a US national from threatening anyone in his custody with imminent death.

The disclosures come as the CIA faces intense scrutiny. The US attorney general, Eric Holder, has been examining the legality of the CIA's interrogation methods.

The inspector general examined CIA techniques over a period of two years – from 2002 until 2004 – to see whether justice department guidelines for so-called "enhanced interrogations" had been followed. Those guidelines were finally released by the Obama administration despite the objections of the CIA and former senior officials under George Bush.

The report is understood to be the most detailed review of the agency's interrogation programme and is believed to be highly critical of the techniques used, suggesting that a number of them broke international laws and norms. The document has become deeply controversial within the CIA itself, not least because the agency was advised two months before Nashiri's capture in a memo from Jay Bybee, the head of the justice department's office of legal counsel, that threats of "imminent death" were legal if they did not cause permanent mental harm.

The report – originally commissioned by then CIA director George Tenet – has become a cause celebre. It was seen by justice department and congressional intelligence committee leaders shortly after it was written, but not shown to all members of the intelligence committees until September 2006.

Top Bush CIA officials, including Tenet's successors as CIA director, Porter Goss and General Michael Hayden, lobbied for the report to be kept secret, claiming its release would damage America's reputation around the world and damage CIA morale.

Its public release comes after revelations last week that the CIA hired the private military contractor Blackwater – now known as Xe Services – to assassinate al-Qaida leaders. The programme never got off the ground and was kept secret from Congress.

Previous scandals that damaged the reputation of the CIA and the US internationally during the Bush years include the disclosure of the US secret rendition programme for terrorist suspects, the existence of the black site prisons and the use of waterboarding.

Barack Obama has said that waterboarding constitutes torture and is therefore forbidden under US law.

In Europe, the Swiss senator who has led an inquiry across the continent into secret CIA-run detention centres has urged European nations to come clean about their involvement "in this shameful episode".

Dick Marty said Europe's credibility was being damaged by leaks about CIA interrogation facilities in countries such as Poland, Romania and Lithuania. Marty said that instead of having the truth trickle out gradually, all participants in the illegal program should publicly admit their involvement.

In a 2007 probe conducted on behalf of the Council of Europe, Marty accused 14 European governments of permitting the CIA to run detention centres or conduct rendition flights through their countries between 2002 and 2005.

 

[deception]

btw, for those who dont think waterboarding is torture- ask chris hitchens what he thinks now

[video=youtube;4LPubUCJv58]

 

[bodyman5001]

Torture? Mean? Fucked up? Abuse? I would think arguing over that would be like splitting hairs.

I think we all know that we probably wouldn't want to volunteer for that exercise.

I do wonder if there is anyone on Earth that could go through that and not spill their guts. You would have to be one tough son of a bitch I would think.

If a guy admitted that he kidnapped my sister and had her stashed somewhere and she would die if he wouldn't tell us where, I would waterboard the shit out of him.

If something is illegal, we shouldn't do it. If a CIA employee breaks the law and stops a terrorist attack by doing so...............I guess Presidential pardons are legal so the law is the law right?

 

[deception]

here's the thing- these techniques borrowed from the soviets have produced bad intelligence like u know complete lies. why? because in the words of jesse venture- give me one hour with cheney and ill have him confessing to the sharon tate murder

also we need to examine the organizational structure of al queda- its decentralized so if u were sent on a mission to blow up a hotel in sydney, u wouldnt know about any other missions. they arent stupid- they know the sydney bomber is expendable and if he fails, he would no value to the goals of al queda so he has a narrow focus

 

[RipCity]

here's the thing- these techniques borrowed from the soviets have produced bad intelligence like u know complete lies. why? because in the words of jesse venture- give me one hour with cheney and ill have him confessing to the sharon tate murder

also we need to examine the organizational structure of al queda- its decentralized so if u were sent on a mission to blow up a hotel in sydney, u wouldnt know about any other missions. they arent stupid- they know the sydney bomber is expendable and if he fails, he would no value to the goals of al queda so he has a narrow focus

They've produced bad intelligence? Like you know..complete lies?

I'm sure that many suspects do lie while being tortured, however what you've offered up here is pure speculation, no facts, no articles, no sources, just bullshit.

Standard operating procedure eh?

 

[deception]

They've produced bad intelligence? Like you know..complete lies?

I'm sure that many suspects do lie while being tortured, however what you've offered up here is pure speculation, no facts, no articles, no sources, just bullshit.

Standard operating procedure eh?

there have been actual reports released about the intelligence gathered from these techniques and at best they have produced ambiguous results like i.e. there going to board a plane and duplicate another 9/11 but no specific info like a date. and maybe the bush admin should have taken the intel passed on by jordanian sources about 9/11 a month before the attack more seriously but the bush admin just dragged their feet and did shit all (source: 9/11 commission).

as for the techniques- many are based on soviet tactics and condemned by everyone outside of your trailer park in portland

 

[RipCity]

there have been actual reports released about the intelligence gathered from these techniques and at best they have produced ambiguous results like i.e. there going to board a plane and duplicate another 9/11 but no specific info like a date. and maybe the bush admin should have taken the intel passed on by jordanian sources about 9/11 a month before the attack more seriously but the bush admin just dragged their feet and did shit all (source: 9/11 commission).

as for the techniques- many are based on soviet tactics and condemned by everyone outside of your trailer park in portland

Like, dude, where are these "actual reports?"

Try using some punctuation moron.

 

[rocketeer]

CIA interrogators threatened a captured al-Qaida leader with a power drill and a pistol in what was described as a mock execution, according to a long-suppressed report due to be released on Monday.

is this supposed to bother me? now, if they actually used a power drill or shot the guy during interrogation, we'd have a problem. but threats? don't see the big deal.

 

[deception]

Like, dude, where are these "actual reports?"

Try using some punctuation moron.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cia_interrogations

i know reading anything other than the bible is forbidden in your household but i suggest u read this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cia_interrogations

But the inspector general said it was unclear whether so-called "enhanced interrogation" tactics contributed to that success. Those tactics include waterboarding, a simulated drowning technique that the Obama administration says is torture. Measuring the success of such interrogation is "a more subjective process and not without some concern," the report said.

The report describes at least one mock execution, which would also violate U.S. anti-torture laws. To terrify one detainee, interrogators pretended to execute the prisoner in a nearby room. A senior officer said it was a transparent ruse that yielded no benefit.

im guessing that wasnt the lead story on fox news

 

[Denny Crane]

there have been actual reports released about the intelligence gathered from these techniques and at best they have produced ambiguous results like i.e. there going to board a plane and duplicate another 9/11 but no specific info like a date. and maybe the bush admin should have taken the intel passed on by jordanian sources about 9/11 a month before the attack more seriously but the bush admin just dragged their feet and did shit all (source: 9/11 commission).

as for the techniques- many are based on soviet tactics and condemned by everyone outside of your trailer park in portland

Fascinating. Ambiguous? Doesn't seem so.

http://media.www.collegian.com/medi...Blow.Up.Several.Aircraft.To.U.s-2193096.shtml

British authorities thwart terrorist plot to blow up several aircraft to U.S.

Denver, other airports affected by long lines, cancelled flights

DANICA KIRKA , Associated Press Writer

Issue date: 8/2/06 Section: International

LONDON (AP) - British authorities said Thursday they thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several aircraft heading to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, averting what police described as "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

Police arrested 21 people, saying they were confident they captured the main suspects in what U.S. officials said was a plot in its final phases that had all the earmarks of an al-Qaida operation. President Bush called it a "stark reminder" of the continued threat to the United States from extremist Muslims.

Officials raised security to its highest level in Britain _ suggesting a terrorist attack might be imminent _ and banned carry-on luggage on all flights. Huge crowds backed up at security barriers at London's Heathrow airport as officials searching for explosives barred nearly every form of liquid outside of baby formula.

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said the terrorists planned to use liquid explosives disguised as beverages and other common products and set them off with detonators disguised as electronic devices.

 

[deception]

Fascinating.

http://media.www.collegian.com/medi...Blow.Up.Several.Aircraft.To.U.s-2193096.shtml

British authorities thwart terrorist plot to blow up several aircraft to U.S.

Denver, other airports affected by long lines, cancelled flights

DANICA KIRKA , Associated Press Writer

Issue date: 8/2/06 Section: International

LONDON (AP) - British authorities said Thursday they thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several aircraft heading to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, averting what police described as "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

Police arrested 21 people, saying they were confident they captured the main suspects in what U.S. officials said was a plot in its final phases that had all the earmarks of an al-Qaida operation. President Bush called it a "stark reminder" of the continued threat to the United States from extremist Muslims.

Officials raised security to its highest level in Britain _ suggesting a terrorist attack might be imminent _ and banned carry-on luggage on all flights. Huge crowds backed up at security barriers at London's Heathrow airport as officials searching for explosives barred nearly every form of liquid outside of baby formula.

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said the terrorists planned to use liquid explosives disguised as beverages and other common products and set them off with detonators disguised as electronic devices.

yeah british authorities, God bless the Queen!!! i didnt say anything about the british did i?

 

[Denny Crane]

is this supposed to bother me? now, if they actually used a power drill or shot the guy during interrogation, we'd have a problem. but threats? don't see the big deal.

Exactly.

 

[deception]

hey denny crane, what was the bush admin doing on 9/10/01 with specific knowledge of an attack provided by jordanian intelligence a month before? nothing!! george tenet, bush, cheney, condi rice, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, perle and the other incompetent frauds should all be locked up.

 

[deception]

Exactly.

ok- then u would be okay with the taliban or some extremist group doing the same to american pow's and totally ignoring the geneva conventions?

 

[deception]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/14/torture/

The testimony of a key witness at a Senate hearing Wednesday raised serious questions about the truthfulness of former President George W. Bush's own personal defense of the CIA's brutal interrogation program. Former FBI agent Ali Soufan also indicated that the harsh interrogation techniques may actually have hindered the collection of intelligence, causing a high-value prisoner to stop cooperating.

In the first congressional hearing on torture since the release of Bush administration memos that provided the legal justification for torture, Soufan told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the CIA's abusive techniques were "ineffective, slow and unreliable, and as a result harmful to our efforts to defeat al-Qaida." According to Soufan, his own nonviolent interrogation of an al-Qaida suspect was quickly yielding valuable, actionable intelligence -- until the CIA intervened.

Soufan was with the FBI on March 28, 2002, when the United States captured its first suspected al-Qaida operative after 9/11, a man named Abu Zubaydah, held at a secret location overseas. Soufan had investigated terrorism cases dating back to the East Africa embassy bombings in 1998, and he was one of the first experts called after Zubaydah's capture.

Soufan, who testified at the hearing from behind a partition to hide his identity, worked on a small team of interrogators utilizing tried-and-true techniques that emphasize knowing the detainee's language, understanding his culture, leveraging known information about a detainee, and sometimes using a bit of trickery. The method is based on rapport and is believed by experienced interrogators to result in the most reliable actionable intelligence. "It is about outwitting the detainee by using a combination of interpersonal, cognitive and emotional strategies to get the information needed," Soufan said in written testimony, which he paraphrased on Wednesday.

"For example," Soufan told the committee, "in my first interrogation of the terrorist Abu Zubaydah ... I asked him his name. He replied with his alias. I then asked him, 'How 'bout if I call you Hani?'"

"[Hani] was the name his mother nicknamed him as a child," recalled Soufan. "He looked at me in shock, said, OK,' and we started talking."
Quantcast

"Within the first hour of interrogation," Soufan said, "we gained actionable intelligence." Soufan could not say what that information was because it remains classified. Zubaydah had been injured during his capture, and Soufan's team arranged for medical care and continued talking to the prisoner. Within the next few days, Soufan made one of the most significant intelligence breakthroughs of the so-called war on terror. He learned from Zubaydah that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the mastermind behind the attacks on 9/11.

Then, however, a CIA interrogation team from Washington led by a contractor arrived at the secret location. Zubaydah was stripped naked and the contractor began a series of coercive, abusive interrogations, based on Cold War-era communist techniques designed to elicit false confessions. During the Korean War, for example, Chinese interrogators employed the measures to get captured American pilots to make false confessions. "The new techniques did not produce results, as Abu Zubaydah shut down and stopped talking," Soufan explained. "After a few days of getting no information, and after repeated inquiries from D.C. asking why all of a sudden no information was being transmitted ... we again were given control of the interrogation."

As Soufan and his team resumed their interrogation, Zubaydah revealed information about Jose Padilla, the alleged "dirty bomber."

But after that, the CIA and the contractor again took over, using what Soufan called an "untested theory" that the Cold War techniques might work for getting good information. "Again, however, the technique wasn't working," Soufan recalled.

Soufan's team was brought back yet again. "We found it harder to reengage him this time, because of how the techniques had affected him," Soufan noted. "But eventually, we succeeded."

A third time the CIA and the contractor team took over, using increasingly brutal methods. Soufan reported what he called "borderline torture" to his superiors in Washington. In protest of the abuse, former FBI Director Robert Mueller pulled Soufan out of the location.

 

[Denny Crane]

ok- then u would be okay with the taliban or some extremist group doing the same to american pow's and totally ignoring the geneva conventions?

I think you need to keep up with current events. I think you missed all the americans being beheaded in publicly released videos by those extremist groups.

 

[deception]

I think you need to keep up with current events. I think you missed all the americans being beheaded in publicly released videos by those extremist groups.

so americans use the same methods as ppl who come from societies where u need 3 male witnesses' before a man can be charged with rape?

 

[Denny Crane]

so americans use the same methods as ppl who come from societies where u need 3 male witnesses' before a man can be charged with rape?

We could have shot those guys and left them on the battlefield, and good riddance. If we can try to get any intelligence out of them, through whatever means, I'm good with it.

It's still ironic that you talk about an ambiguous 9/11 style attack and there clearly was one as you described that was clearly thwarted.

Better three guys get waterboarded a couple hundred times each and all those lives saved than the alternative. We're at war with them, not playing pattycake.

 

[deception]

Better three guys get waterboarded a couple hundred times each and all those lives saved than the alternative. We're at war with them, not playing pattycake.

at war with dudes who wear sandals and still ride horses onto the battlefield. lets do a little retrospective on 9/11- as aforementioned in the thread, the bush admin neglected their duties as guardians of the ppl by not following up on good intelligence provided the Jordanians. nevertheless, the actual act of terror was committed by dudes brandishing box cutters. plaxico burress packs more heat than the big bad terrorist

 

[Denny Crane]

at war with dudes who wear sandals and still ride horses onto the battlefield. lets do a little retrospective on 9/11- as aforementioned in the thread, the bush admin neglected their duties as guardians of the ppl by not following up on good intelligence provided the Jordanians. nevertheless, the actual act of terror was committed by dudes brandishing box cutters. plaxico burress packs more heat than the big bad terrorist

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=asymmetric+warfare
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=asymetric+warfare

 

[RipCity]

at war with dudes who wear sandals and still ride horses onto the battlefield. lets do a little retrospective on 9/11- as aforementioned in the thread, the bush admin neglected their duties as guardians of the ppl by not following up on good intelligence provided the Jordanians. nevertheless, the actual act of terror was committed by dudes brandishing box cutters. plaxico burress packs more heat than the big bad terrorist

Just some dudes wearing sandals riding horses eh? Those same "dudes" just happen to have killed roughly 8,000 coalition soldiers at this point, and inflicted many many more casualties on the Russians before driving them off their soil in the 80's. These aren't exactly farmers with pitch forks.

ok- then u would be okay with the taliban or some extremist group doing the same to american pow's and totally ignoring the geneva conventions?

First of all, the treatment our citizens and soldiers have received in the hands of extremeists has been significantly worse. Have we ever cut off a captured insurgents head with a rusty steak knife? Furthermore, have we ever video taped it and broadcast it for the world to see? I think not. We deprive them of sleep, make them think they are about to be executed, and "pretend" to drown them. So terrible, I know.

 

[deception]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=asymmetric+warfare
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=asymetric+warfare

u guys decided on this type of unconventional warfare. i would have just gone the colonial route and hired mercenaries to do my bidding but alas- the bush admin's is retarded