Enough is enough: Trade Lillard

[Chris Craig]

 

[Propagandist]

A long time reader, opened an account especially for this post.

Trading Ant and the 3rd pick to get Lillard help as you call it would only make us mediocre and absolutely destroy our future.
When you consider age and talent, both Ant AND the 3rd, each are more valuable to us than Lillard. On the other hand, we can get an excellent package for Lillard, think Franz Wagner, Cole Anthony and the 6th from Orlando. That would give us a talented future up to par with teams like the thunder.

To me, it's a no-brainer but since so many people here don't seem to get it, I went through the trouble of opening an account.
Trading our future for mediocre success next year would be devestating. Especially when the writing is on the wall. Please make the right decision and let go of Lillard

Imagine thinking this is a revelation…

 

[Natebishop3]

Doesn’t matter really; teams don’t win championships with their best player being a PG in general.

Steph (PG)
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Durant
Durant
LeBron
Igoudala
Kawhi
LeBron
LeBron
Dirk
Kobe
Kobe
Pierce
Parker (PG)
Wade
Duncan
Chauncey (PG)
Duncan
Shaq
Shaq
Shaq
Duncan
MJ
MJ
MJ
Dream
Dream
MJ
MJ

That’s the last 30 FMVPs. 3 are PGs.

And Curry can play like a shooting guard. That's the main difference between him and Dame. He can play just as well off the ball as he does with the ball.

 

[inconceivable]

Sharpe is the future. I want Dame to be around Sharpe as much as possible. Don't trade Lillard.

 

[Natebishop3]

Allen Iverson was the closest I think

And Iverson wasn't really a point guard. He was a shooting guard. They had Eric Snow playing the point next to him.

 

[e_blazer]

I know people don't like to talk about it, but he raises an interesting question.

Is Dame's style of play conducive to winning basketball?

By that I mean, ISO heavy basketball. Who is the last team to win a championship with their best player being an ISO point guard?

Was Dame an ISO heavy PG when he played with LaMarcus, Wes, Nic & Rolo? Dame can play pretty much any style of ball a coach asks him to. It's not his fault that Olshey and, to date, Cronin haven't given him enough talent that the team has a shot of winning if he doesn't dominate the offense. Who on the last couple of years teams would you have preferred to take a shot over Dame?

 

[Shaboid]

 

[Natebishop3]

Was Dame an ISO heavy PG when he played with LaMarcus, Wes, Nic & Rolo? Dame can play pretty much any style of ball a coach asks him to. It's not his fault that Olshey and, to date, Cronin haven't given him enough talent that the team has a shot of winning if he doesn't dominate the offense. Who on the last couple of years teams would you have preferred to take a shot over Dame?

Dame deferred because he was the young guy on those teams. I'm pretty sure he was quoted saying that he was worried about stepping on LMA's toes.

You're right, Dame is our best player by far, and typically you want him to take the most shots on the team, but Dame is not a guy who has historically played off the ball. We have never really seen him take on that role. He is arguably the best pick-n-roll player in the league, but that requires him to have the ball in his hands.

Just saying, when I watch the Warriors or the Kings or the Nuggets, I see the ball moving around a lot more than I see with our team. And that dates back to Stotts. We have horrible ball movement... except when we're tanking and it's just the young guys. Then magically we have really good ball movement.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Welcome to the board...my 2 cents...this is a post not a thread that should have been posted in one of the existing "trade Dame" threads....I firmly disagree about trading Dame for several reasons but first and foremost now, it's because there's no "Gobert" package out there for him and you don't send the GOAT to a bottom feeding franchise either...you give him a chance to win if you trade him which I'd never do. The Blazers won't find another Dame in my lifetime, and I don't want to be the Kings or Wolves wallowing in playoff droughts for over a decade...I'm too old for that.. You build around Dame and if that means trading Ant or other players to do it you do it. Ant can't shine Dame's shoes at this point in his career and it's because he doesn't have any Alpha dog in him. He's our best trade piece beyond the 3rd pick. I'd keep Dame and the 3rd pick if we could and trade other pieces or the 23rd pick first. We'll see. Dame is healthy for the first time in about half his career and just had a career year...good things to come behind a healthy Dame. I'll never understand the logic unless the person proposing trading Dame is actually a Laker or Knick fan. Their big market media teams are going to sow seeds of a disgruntled Dame and give a million reasons why he should be a Knick or Laker...which ain't happening...sorry to burst your bubble. I'd believe you were a longtime Blazer fan if your first post cheered for the team but you didn't ...in fact your first post is a doom and gloom Dame thread..reading it we clearly disagree. It's a pretty telling troll thread.

Honest question: suppose we "build around" Dame. Given what we've got back in trades in the past 3 years or so, what do you honestly think is the ceiling for such a team? I would be frankly amazed if it could make it out of the first round. Does that do it for you, or are you banking on us creating a contender? Because I hate to break it to you, but we're not. (And maybe just as well, because even if we had the talent of a contender, we have Chauncey as coach.)

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Y'all said some nice things so I'm not gonna bring up the petition.

So a moderator can have another moderator on ignore? Interesting.

 

[e_blazer]

Dame deferred because he was the young guy on those teams. I'm pretty sure he was quoted saying that he was worried about stepping on LMA's toes.

You're right, Dame is our best player by far, and typically you want him to take the most shots on the team, but Dame is not a guy who has historically played off the ball. We have never really seen him take on that role. He is arguably the best pick-n-roll player in the league, but that requires him to have the ball in his hands.

Just saying, when I watch the Warriors or the Kings or the Nuggets, I see the ball moving around a lot more than I see with our team. And that dates back to Stotts. We have horrible ball movement... except when we're tanking and it's just the young guys. Then magically we have really good ball movement.

Absolutely, but all of those teams have more balanced rosters than the Blazers. Grant is a solid player and I have no problems with him in a new roster rotation. Ant is streaky as hell and pretty much defers to Dame. The small forward rotations have been abysmal as far as steady offensive production. Nurk can either be near All-Star or totally checked out. And, when Dame plays with our so-called bench? To think of one of those guys taking a shot instead of Dame is laughable. I'm not saying that I'm in favor of a continued steady regimen of Iso-Dame; just that I'd love to see him in a more balanced roster and offensive scheme.

 

[riverman]

Honest question: suppose we "build around" Dame. Given what we've got back in trades in the past 3 years or so, what do you honestly think is the ceiling for such a team? I would be frankly amazed if it could make it out of the first round. Does that do it for you, or are you banking on us creating a contender? Because I hate to break it to you, but we're not. (And maybe just as well, because even if we had the talent of a contender, we have Chauncey as coach.)

You aren't breaking it to me as we don't have a roster yet, but yes, I'm banking on the front office to build a contender this offseason. Nobody thought Miami was a contender this year either...I can only name a few of their players without looking it up but yeah....shit happens...the 8th seed can beat the higher seed ...Dame is a winner. I'm optimistic with the assets Joe has this off season to make improvements. Chauncey will have my support unless he takes a deeper team and misses the playoffs without injury bugs to the roster. I'd move Chauncey to the front office under Joe and hire a vet coach myself, but we'll see. As a Blazer fan I have nothing to lose from starting each season with a fresh outlook moving forward....if they trade Dame....I'll probably check out of following the NBA. Dame is one of the few stars in the league that I can honestly root for and be loyal to as a fan. Choices...I'd trade the whole bench before I'd trade Dame and I'd definitely trade Ant in a heartbeat for a two way wing.

 

[wizenheimer]

We all watched the games, we know Ant is much better without Lillard and that his numbers are actually deflated because of that and if you ask do I blame Lillard? I blame Lillard! He passed him the ball maybe once a game. He was never a player known to making the players around him better and with all of his talent you could argue he's a stat padder, selfish, puts himself above the team and making himself (and not winning) the first priority...
I know this last paragraph would get me under fire but that's my opinion of him. .

well, then to meet your expectations, here comes some fire

* blah blah blah...CJ would be an all-star without Dame; CJ needs his own team; Dame is holding CJ back. Yeah we heard that for several years here, it was complete bullshit, and was a primary excuse for not getting Dame some real talent to play with. CJ just had his worst season in years in New Orleans. Ant is no better than CJ except he plays worse defense...and that's saying something, and it's not good

* "Dame the selfish stat-padder"....just GTFO with that nonsense.

Your posts in this thread are just a bunch of dumb anti-Dame bile. I wonder if you're a noted Dame hater who has posted before but just created a new account
*************************************************************

I said in this forum 2-3 weeks ago there were posters here who didn't give a shit about what Portland got from trading Dame (but be the most inclined to propose unrealistic godfather trades as cover), they just didn't like him and wanted him gone. I got quite a bit of push-back on that view. Since then we've had a weird-ass petition; a thread saying Dame is terrible because he doesn't recruit stars to Portland (even though it's next to impossible for dame to do that); and now this thread

yeah, I was right

 

[tykendo]

well, then to meet your expectations, here comes some fire

* blah blah blah...CJ would be an all-star without Dame; CJ needs his own team; Dame is holding CJ back. Yeah we heard that for several years here, it was complete bullshit, and was a primary excuse for not getting Dame some real talent to play with. CJ just had his worst season in years in New Orleans. Ant is no better than CJ except he plays worse defense...and that's saying something, and it's not good

* "Dame the selfish stat-padder"....just GTFO with that nonsense.

Your posts in this thread are just a bunch of dumb anti-Dame bile. I wonder if you're a noted Dame hater who has posted before but just created a new account
*************************************************************

I said in this forum 2-3 weeks ago there were posters here who didn't give a shit about what Portland got from trading Dame (but be the most inclined to propose unrealistic godfather trades as cover), they just didn't like him and wanted him gone. I got quite a bit of push-back on that view. Since then we've had a weird-ass petition; a thread saying Dame is terrible because he doesn't recruit stars to Portland (even though it's next to impossible for dame to do that); and now this thread

yeah, I was right

WORD!

 

[inconceivable]

You aren't breaking it to me as we don't have a roster yet, but yes, I'm banking on the front office to build a contender this offseason. Nobody thought Miami was a contender this year either...I can only name a few of their players without looking it up but yeah....shit happens...the 8th seed can beat the higher seed ...Dame is a winner. I'm optimistic with the assets Joe has this off season to make improvements. Chauncey will have my support unless he takes a deeper team and misses the playoffs without injury bugs to the roster. I'd move Chauncey to the front office under Joe and hire a vet coach myself, but we'll see. As a Blazer fan I have nothing to lose from starting each season with a fresh outlook moving forward....if they trade Dame....I'll probably check out of following the NBA. Dame is one of the few stars in the league that I can honestly root for and be loyal to as a fan. Choices...I'd trade the whole bench before I'd trade Dame and I'd definitely trade Ant in a heartbeat for a two way wing.

Yep, who honestly thought Phx would go from missing the playoffs to adding an aging pg to the nba finals?

How can anyone say we can't be contenders without knowing how this summer unfolds?

 

[julius]

I think more fans than you think are coming around to the realization that it’s probably time to deal Dame

Fans on here, maybe. But we (message board/twitter) represent a very small group of the fanbase.

If you were to poll fans as a whole, you'd probably find an overwhelming majority would say to keep him.

 

[Strenuus]

So a moderator can have another moderator on ignore? Interesting.

Huh?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You aren't breaking it to me as we don't have a roster yet, but yes, I'm banking on the front office to build a contender this offseason.

Oh.
Well, the good news is, you're a Blazer fan, so you're well-used to disappointment.

You aren't breaking it to me as we don't have a roster yet, but yes, I'm banking on the front office to build a contender this offseason. Nobody thought Miami was a contender this year either...

Miami had been to the finals a couple of years ago! Miami has the best coach in the league!

 

[Natebishop3]

Fans on here, maybe. But we (message board/twitter) represent a very small group of the fanbase.

If you were to poll fans as a whole, you'd probably find an overwhelming majority would say to keep him.

I rarely venture out into the real world, but @TBpup often interacts with other fans, and I remember him saying that he has been hearing more and more that fans are coming around to the idea. Correct me if I'm wrong @TBpup

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yep, who honestly thought Phx would go from missing the playoffs to adding an aging pg to the nba finals?

1. Maybe people who watched the Suns win EVERY SINGLE GAME in the run-up to the bubble and only just miss the playoffs?
2. "aging PG" = all-time top-10 PG in league history, who had just (a) helped take Houston to within a quarter of knocking out the winningest team in league history, and (b) taken the OKC Thunder from pre-season "worst team in the league" status to the playoffs.

How can anyone say we can't be contenders without knowing how this summer unfolds?

"How can anyone know that this egg will shatter without dropping it first?"
The only way one can hold out hope for building a contender is by not thinking about the realistic options we have.

 

[wizenheimer]

No it is not. He’s amazing, but will never win if he’s the best player and focal point of the offense

here's a radical thought...get Dame a partner of equal talent and Dame wouldn't be the only focal point and the only 'best' player

who the fuck, besides Dame, should have been taking over games during the last 6-8 years? CJ? Nurkic? Aminu? Melo? Hood? Napier? Harkless? Turner? Meyers? Stauskas? Hezonja? Layman? Trent? RoCo?.....geeeeezuzzzz he's had a stream of unworthy partners

substitute Curry for Dame without any other roster changes and Portland would have had the exact same mediocrity. No change. Prime Lebron may have been able to drag those rosters to a few more playoff wins, but not more real playoff success

Portland's lack of 'success' in the Dame era isn't because of Dame, or because he's 6'2, or because of his defense, or because of his usage, or because he's a PG. It's because of the front office and ownership never really attempted to get him the necessary help

 

[tykendo]

I rarely venture out into the real world, but @TBpup often interacts with other fans, and I remember him saying that he has been hearing more and more that fans are coming around to the idea. Correct me if I'm wrong @TBpup

I went to the Rip City Radio Lottery party. I met only one fan who was trade Dame. Maybe 2 if you count Godfather.

 

[tykendo]

here's a radical thought...get Dame a partner of equal talent and Dame wouldn't be the only focal point and the only 'best' player

who the fuck, besides Dame, should have been taking over games during the last 6-8 years? CJ? Nurkic? Aminu? Melo? Hood? Napier? Harkless? Turner? Meyers? Stauskas? Hezonja? Layman? Trent? RoCo?.....geeeeezuzzzz he's had a stream of unworthy partners

substitute Curry for Dame without any other roster changes and Portland would have had the exact same mediocrity. No change. Prime Lebron may have been able to drag those rosters to a few more playoff wins, but not more real playoff success

Portland's lack of 'success' in the Dame era isn't because of Dame, or because he's 6'2, or because of his defense, or because of his usage, or because he's a PG. It's because of the front office and ownership never really attempted to get him the necessary help

You're on Fire!

 

[SharpesTriumph]

who the fuck, besides Dame, should have been taking over games during the last 6-8 years? CJ? Nurkic? Aminu? Melo? Hood? Napier? Harkless? Turner? Meyers? Stauskas? Hezonja? Layman? Trent? RoCo?.....geeeeezuzzzz he's had a stream of unworthy partners

substitute Curry for Dame without any other roster changes and Portland would have had the exact same mediocrity. No change. Prime Lebron may have been able to drag those rosters to a few more playoff wins, but not more real playoff success

Portland's lack of 'success' in the Dame era isn't because of Dame, or because he's 6'2, or because of his defense, or because of his usage, or because he's a PG. It's because of the front office and ownership never really attempted to get him the necessary help

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

The point is what player do you build a team around to be a contender? History would suggest its more likely with wings like Sharpe than a PG like Dame.

If there is no realistic chance to build a contender around Dame - then shouldn't the Blazers try a different path?

Dame jacks up a lot of shit deep shots and does play ISO ball - its a legit observation Nate had to question if there is a way that type of PG can be the best player for a contender.

 

[inconceivable]

1. Maybe people who watched the Suns win EVERY SINGLE GAME in the run-up to the bubble and only just miss the playoffs?
2. "aging PG" = all-time top-10 PG in league history, who had just (a) helped take Houston to within a quarter of knocking out the winningest team in league history, and (b) taken the OKC Thunder from pre-season "worst team in the league" status to the playoffs.


"How can anyone know that this egg will shatter without dropping it first?"
The only way one can hold out hope for building a contender is by not thinking about the realistic options we have.

November 2020 ESPN Power Rankings
14th place Phoenix Suns
2020-21 Title Odds (via PointsBet): +6600

Using the tenth pick on Jalen Smith came out of left field for a team building around Deandre Ayton. Still, their young core is the envy of many in the league after a strong 8-0 bubble showing, and they added Chris Paul without sacrificing much of it. A return to the postseason for the first time in a decade appears well within reach.

 

[wizenheimer]

I rarely venture out into the real world, but @TBpup often interacts with other fans, and I remember him saying that he has been hearing more and more that fans are coming around to the idea. Correct me if I'm wrong @TBpup

confirmation bias

 

[tykendo]

I went to the Rip City Radio Lottery party. I met only one fan who was trade Dame. Maybe 2 if you count Godfather.

But there might have been someone there who thought the earth was flat.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Show Dame some love and loyalty cause he has earned it and if fans cannot get behind that then .... well I will leave it at that before I say something I should not --- ahh screw that if you cannot understand that then I question if you know what is it to be loyal. I am getting sick and tired of the clueless nature of this fanbase cause in reality there really is not many teams that can give the package the Blazers would need to trade him and even if there were it still comes back to the my first sentence -- Show Dame love and loyalty --- simple and too the point and it is the TRUTH

NEXT ....

BTW -- Welcome to the board but your opinion is flawed but GO BLAZERS !!

 

[riverman]

Oh.
Well, the good news is, you're a Blazer fan, so you're well-used to disappointment.


Miami had been to the finals a couple of years ago! Miami has the best coach in the league!

right now I think Mike Malone is the best coach in the league...no knock on Spoelstra, but Malone has outcoached the league this season. I've seen many chapters of Blazer success and failure but I don't think winning a championship every year is the end all of a successful team. I saw us win a championship...saw us play the Bulls in the finals, saw us almost beat the Kobe, Shaq Lakers in the WCF and saw a contending roster go down with Wes achilles another year...then saw a one armed Kanter and Dame and Rodney Hood get us to the WCF when Dame was in terrible pain...yeah...there's a rollercoaster ride of fandom if you measure it by championships...I can find something to enjoy in Blazer basketball most seasons but tanking isn't one of them...as I've said...if they don't keep Dame next season, I'll probably give up on the NBA. You're welcome to bask in disappointment but I don't follow sports with those expectations. A lot has to line up to win a championship in sports. You can hire a dozen coaches but a team has to stay healthy and be consistent to win on that level.

 

[tykendo]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

The point is what player do you build a team around to be a contender? History would suggest its more likely with wings like Sharpe than a PG like Dame.

If there is no realistic chance to build a contender around Dame - then shouldn't the Blazers try a different path?

Until you really try, and put actual quality talent around Dame, do you really ever know? Why give up on the one asset you know brings it at an All NBA level, for a bunch of unproven, hope, wanna be's. There is plenty of time after Dame retires to build again around Sharpe if he ends up being special. He will be only 26 to 27 years old.