ESPNInsider.....

[THE HCP]

My subscription is up and the lead insider on the front page of ESPN.com is about the Blazers possibly moving up in the draft. Wondering if anybody could help up. I'm usually the one helping DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hasoos]

Yea I saw that. I wonder if it is old news being re-hashed (like what we were discussing about a week ago about the Blazers moving to #3 or #4), or if this is legit new material? Smokescreen detectors are ready to roll!!!

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Portland general manager Kevin Pritchard refused to reveal specifics about possible trade scenarios or speculation, but did acknowledge that he has engaged in talks with other GMs and that the "buildup" to legitimate trade discussion is "starting right now."

The Blazers have made some type of draft-related trade in each of his six drafts, including 16 in the last four years.

"We're having discussions," Pritchard said. "I would never get into the details of where and who -- we don't comment on that kind of speculation. But it's our job to look at every opportunity. ... You're always assessing the landscape, whether you're looking to move up, down or stay where you are. You're always assessing your options."

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi...ng_in_typical_draft_trade_talk/#ixzz0pcsX0qBu

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Original Link

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/05/for_blazers_new_talent_on_disp.html

 

[THE HCP]

Thanks man.

 

[Natebishop3]

I still think Pritchard is far too in love with trading for rookies. Draft day is his Christmas. I was very happy with his trade for Camby, and I would like to see him try to trade for a seasoned post scorer or a backup point guard. Those are our biggest holes.

 

[Rhal]

I still think Pritchard is far too in love with trading for rookies. Draft day is his Christmas. I was very happy with his trade for Camby, and I would like to see him try to trade for a seasoned post scorer or a backup point guard. Those are our biggest holes.

Just a quick question about the "backup point guard" your talking about because I see so many people talk about that. Does that mean that you have given up on Bayless ever playing that position?

Personally I see very little that needs to be done at the moment. A banger type backup PF would be nice but who can we really get that wouldn't mind being a backup to Aldridge? I think a Healthy Oden is the answer to our low post scoring.
I personally don't even like the idea of Bosh for Aldridge. Yea that would answer our low post scoring if Oden gets injured again but i'm quiet high on Aldridge even after a first round exit that showed him not really stepping up at all. I do agree with people who say that if Bosh is offered for Aldridge + change we should do it but Aldridge defense is good and he will only get better. The best thing about Aldridge isn't his ceiling for offence (which unless we see him add post moves has probably reached its ceiling) but its how high his ceiling is on the defensive end. I expect him to constantly get better at that part of his game.

 

[julius]

I hear the Blazers are interesting in trading their Hispanic who is causing them to panic, for a Norwegian whose aim is to please em.

 

[mook]

Kind of hard for me to see what Portland has in the way of assets that could get them into the top 10. We're not trading Aldridge, Roy, Oden or Batum. The rest of our team is either too old (Miller, Camby) or too talentless (Webster, Rudy, Bayless) to be worth that much.

If we wind up in there, my guess is we trade Joel and maybe Bayless for some horrible contract and a great pick. But we'd have to be going after a PG or combo guard, if that's the case. And the only guards in the top 10 are Wall and Evan Turner. I don't see those happening for what we have to offer.

*shrug* My guess is that if we're as active this year as we have been in the past, we're targeting a proven veteran guard of some kind.

 

[Rhal]

Kind of hard for me to see what Portland has in the way of assets that could get them into the top 10. We're not trading Aldridge, Roy, Oden or Batum. The rest of our team is either too old (Miller, Camby) or too talentless (Webster, Rudy, Bayless) to be worth that much.

If we wind up in there, my guess is we trade Joel and maybe Bayless for some horrible contract and a great pick. But we'd have to be going after a PG or combo guard, if that's the case. And the only guards in the top 10 are Wall and Evan Turner. I don't see those happening for what we have to offer.


*shrug* My guess is that if we're as active this year as we have been in the past, we're targeting a proven veteran guard of some kind.

I don't really get the "too talentless" part. Webster has shown a huge offensive upside capability with really good defensive capabilities. The same can be said for Rudy/Bayless in other ways. Bayless will be a pretty good player in a year or two imo and as for Rudy... well he sucks in Nates system but I think thats because he is not used correctly. Anyhow i'm just saying the guys you mentioned have shown pretty big upsides and a lot of teams will be looking at them not as "talentless" players but as pieces that could help them.

 

[mook]

I don't really get the "too talentless" part. Webster has shown a huge offensive upside capability with really good defensive capabilities. The same can be said for Rudy/Bayless in other ways. Bayless will be a pretty good player in a year or two imo and as for Rudy... well he sucks in Nates system but I think thats because he is not used correctly. Anyhow i'm just saying the guys you mentioned have shown pretty big upsides and a lot of teams will be looking at them not as "talentless" players but as pieces that could help them.

If you say so. Next year Rudy will be 25, Webster 24. Guys still blow up after that age, but it's not exactly common after 2+ years in the league. It's pretty clear in my mind they're going to be $2-$5 mil/year career role players. Yawn. You don't give up quality picks for someone you can basically sign as a free agent during any offseason.

Bayless still has a lot of upside, IMO. He made massive strides between year 1 and 2, and he'll only be 22 next year. He's the guy I'd point to as somebody who could explode in a faster-paced system since he excels in the open court. But even there, any team with a top 10 draft pick this year can get a guy with similar upside and more height.

 

[Natebishop3]

Just a quick question about the "backup point guard" your talking about because I see so many people talk about that. Does that mean that you have given up on Bayless ever playing that position?

Personally I see very little that needs to be done at the moment. A banger type backup PF would be nice but who can we really get that wouldn't mind being a backup to Aldridge? I think a Healthy Oden is the answer to our low post scoring.
I personally don't even like the idea of Bosh for Aldridge. Yea that would answer our low post scoring if Oden gets injured again but i'm quiet high on Aldridge even after a first round exit that showed him not really stepping up at all. I do agree with people who say that if Bosh is offered for Aldridge + change we should do it but Aldridge defense is good and he will only get better. The best thing about Aldridge isn't his ceiling for offence (which unless we see him add post moves has probably reached its ceiling) but its how high his ceiling is on the defensive end. I expect him to constantly get better at that part of his game.

Nope, I don't think Bayless is a point guard. I think he's a good scorer, and he could start at guard for the Blazers next to Roy, but I think he's shown that he's a scorer. I really don't see him as a longterm option at the point. I think he's an ideal backup shooting guard and I think he could be fine as a starting point guard if Roy is going to handle the majority of the distributing duties.

 

[rocketeer]

Bayless still has a lot of upside, IMO. He made massive strides between year 1 and 2, and he'll only be 22 next year. He's the guy I'd point to as somebody who could explode in a faster-paced system since he excels in the open court. But even there, any team with a top 10 draft pick this year can get a guy with similar upside and more height.

in the draft? or by trading their pick? because that player doesn't exist in this draft past the 2nd pick.

 

[jlprk]

You're saying that Bayless would be the 3rd pick in this draft?

You mean in the 2nd round?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Nope, I don't think Bayless is a point guard. I think he's a good scorer, and he could start at guard for the Blazers next to Roy, but I think he's shown that he's a scorer. I really don't see him as a longterm option at the point. I think he's an ideal backup shooting guard and I think he could be fine as a starting point guard if Roy is going to handle the majority of the distributing duties.

I reluctantly agree. I think Bayless could play along side of Roy just fine, but in the long run I think LMA and Oden would suffer from it if he was the starter.

Someone like Miller set the big guys up better. (But is not the optimal back court for Roy-although it still can work) But ideally we need a Nash, Williams, or Paul type PG (I know....who doesn't) that complements both bigs and our wings. Someone who can penetrate and dish to the big guys at the right moment, as well as be able to hit the three ball in order to spread the offense for Roy to create.

Easier said than done.

 

[mook]

I reluctantly agree. I think Bayless could play along side of Roy just fine, but in the long run I think LMA and Oden would suffer from it if he was the starter.

Someone like Miller set the big guys up better. (But is not the optimal back court for Roy-although it still can work) But ideally we need a Nash, Williams, or Paul type PG (I know....who doesn't) that complements both bigs and our wings. Someone who can penetrate and dish to the big guys at the right moment, as well as be able to hit the three ball in order to spread the offense for Roy to create.

Easier said than done.

If Bayless shot 38% from three instead of 31%, there would be no debate about our future at PG. The fact that a pretty crummy PG like Blake (I like the guy on the bench--but he's a bottom 5 starting NBA PG) started on a 54 win Blazers team goes to show how desperately this team needs quality perimeter shooting to space the floor.

Maybe Mike Conley makes sense for this team. He's a quality three point shooter, and he'll only be 23 next year. So he's got a lot of years left to develop into a higher caliber defender. I think Bayless has higher upside (he's definitely grown at a much faster rate than Conley), but right now I'd put them about even. When you look at how the pieces fit, though, swapping the two might work. Conley's history with Oden is just gravy.

Bayless is probably overpaying for his services. Maybe Conley for Fernandez? I wouldn't do that if I were Memphis, but then Rudy might generate some fan excitement that Conley can't.

I dunno. I guess a lot of it depends on what Bayless has been doing in practice. Is he trying to turn himself into at least a mediocre three point shooter, or is it always going to be a limitation for him?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think Conley fits the profile. Too bad those rumors about OJ for Ellis didn't pan out. Rudy would fit in nicely with Ellis.

 

[hasoos]

If Bayless shot 38% from three instead of 31%, there would be no debate about our future at PG. The fact that a pretty crummy PG like Blake (I like the guy on the bench--but he's a bottom 5 starting NBA PG) started on a 54 win Blazers team goes to show how desperately this team needs quality perimeter shooting to space the floor.

Maybe Mike Conley makes sense for this team. He's a quality three point shooter, and he'll only be 23 next year. So he's got a lot of years left to develop into a higher caliber defender. I think Bayless has higher upside (he's definitely grown at a much faster rate than Conley), but right now I'd put them about even. When you look at how the pieces fit, though, swapping the two might work. Conley's history with Oden is just gravy.

Bayless is probably overpaying for his services. Maybe Conley for Fernandez? I wouldn't do that if I were Memphis, but then Rudy might generate some fan excitement that Conley can't.

I dunno. I guess a lot of it depends on what Bayless has been doing in practice. Is he trying to turn himself into at least a mediocre three point shooter, or is it always going to be a limitation for him?

If Bayless can turn the corner on that jumpshot, the rest of his game will grow by leaps and bounds. Right now he is being severely limited by the fact that nobody plays him for the outside jumper. When he gets bigs to swap off on him, he doesn't have a jumper to make them pay. If he gets that jumper, and players quit sagging off of him on the perimeter, then he will start getting more gravy when attacking the rim and making teams pay for switching on pick and rolls.

 

[rocketeer]

You're saying that Bayless would be the 3rd pick in this draft?

no, i'm not saying that. when i read mook's post i read "guy" as "guard". he may not have(and probably didn't) mean that. outside of wall and turner there isn't a guard in the draft that come anywhere close to bringing what bayless does to the table.

 

[oldmangrouch]

You're saying that Bayless would be the 3rd pick in this draft?

You mean in the 2nd round?

I still have some hope for Bayless, but you're right - he would be closer to the 33 pick than the 3rd pick.

 

[rocketeer]

I still have some hope for Bayless, but you're right - he would be closer to the 33 pick than the 3rd pick.

bayless would be the 3rd or 4th guard taken in this draft depending on whether you consider xavier henry a guard or forward(and whether or not he went ahead of bayless).

and if you're talking about the prospect that bayless was coming out of college, he'd be right behind the top 4 as far as best player available.

 

[mook]

I still have some hope for Bayless, but you're right - he would be closer to the 33 pick than the 3rd pick.

Man, you are so wrong. He'd definitely still be a lottery pick. I'm not sure where, exactly, but any 21 year old kid who gets real minutes on a 50 win team and shows so much growth between year one and two is a decent prospect.

 

[oldmangrouch]

bayless would be the 3rd or 4th guard taken in this draft depending on whether you consider xavier henry a guard or forward(and whether or not he went ahead of bayless).

and if you're talking about the prospect that bayless was coming out of college, he'd be right behind the top 4 as far as best player available.

Man, you are so wrong. He'd definitely still be a lottery pick. I'm not sure where, exactly, but any 21 year old kid who gets real minutes on a 50 win team and shows so much growth between year one and two is a decent prospect.

Really? Let's review.

Shooting: very erratic.

Playmaking: adequate for a SG, subpar for a PG.

Defense: willing, but generally ineffective.

What about his performance makes anybody think he is still a top prospect? If his shooting improves, he can still have a decent career.....but so has Steve Blake, and he was a second rounder.

 

[mook]

Really? Let's review.

Shooting: very erratic.

Playmaking: adequate for a SG, subpar for a PG.

Defense: willing, but generally ineffective.

What about his performance makes anybody think he is still a top prospect? If his shooting improves, he can still have a decent career.....but so has Steve Blake, and he was a second rounder.

He does one thing exceedingly well: He gets to the foul line. And I don't mean "exceedingly well" compared to other sophomores. I mean compared to legit starting shooting guards. Per 36 minutes, he averages 6.7, which is better than freakin' Brandon Roy. That's crazy-good for a guy with absolutely no reputation among the refs and a pretty limited jump shot to set up the drive.

Teams know that driving and drawing fouls is his bread and butter, and they still can't stop him from doing it. That's a heck of an elite skill to build a pretty darned good basketball player around.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He does one thing exceedingly well: He gets to the foul line. And I don't mean "exceedingly well" compared to other sophomores. I mean compared to legit starting shooting guards. Per 36 minutes, he averages 6.7, which is better than freakin' Brandon Roy. That's crazy-good for a guy with absolutely no reputation among the refs and a pretty limited jump shot to set up the drive.

Teams know that driving and drawing fouls is his bread and butter, and they still can't stop him from doing it. That's a heck of an elite skill to build a pretty darned good basketball player around.

I agree, that is a very useful skill. The problem is, teams tend to adjust to one-trick-pony players. He has to either develop a consistent outside shot, or improve his drive-and-kick, to really be an impact player.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think Joel would have the most trade value (out of the players who may be on the block).

He is either a productive center or a salary paid by insurance (assuming he doesn't come back injured and try to play)

 

[mook]

I agree, that is a very useful skill. The problem is, teams tend to adjust to one-trick-pony players. He has to either develop a consistent outside shot, or improve his drive-and-kick, to really be an impact player.

You'd think so. But I find myself often comparing him to Sergio. El Chacho was a one-trick-pony too, and it was a pretty similar trick. Use the dribble drive to penetrate, but instead of drawing the foul, he looked for the dish. Teams played him for it and he was basically useless. Hence, Sergio's best PER as a Blazer was by far his first season.

With Bayless, though, he actually got drastically BETTER after teams figured him out. His first season his PER was 8.3, the second was 14. Yes, he's completely one-dimensional, but unlike Sergio it seems to be a dimension that can't really be stopped. And as refs get to appreciate his game more, he's only going to get more of those 50:50 calls go his way.

With a kid as young as he is who is coming off the bench, I'm pretty happy to see he's got one elite skill that can't really be stopped. It's a nice foundation to build on. He can try to expand on his other skills, but if they aren't working on a given night he can always justify playing time with his ability to draw fouls.

That's something Sergio could never do. If he wasn't successful on the drive-and-dish, he was useless. He never had the luxury to develop other parts of his game.