Evidence that "Atheism" is not a sound belief (1 Viewer)

[MARIS61]

A drop in church attendance does not mean people are renouncing Christianity or converting to atheism. And there is also a world outside of the United States, Christianity is currently growing explosively in Africa and many parts of Asia (particularly China)

Funny how it does so well in places with little to no education.

 

[magnifier661]

The atheist wants you to stop "believing".

Which makes it not very sound. Because they want you to "Not" believe; they better damn well have enough evidence to justify "not" believing.

 

[MARIS61]

93% of Americans still believe in God...

Bullshit.

There are 10 times more atheists than there are mormons.

Out-of-the-closet atheists (those brave enough to risk their careers and hate from the community) make up about a 5th or 6th of the population.

The exact number of faithless is unclear. One study by the Pew Research Centre puts them at about 12% of the population, but another by the Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society and Culture at Trinity College in Hartford puts that figure at around 20%.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/01/atheism-america-religious-right

As with any other group shunned and discriminated against in society, the true numbers are likely several times that amount due to fear of coming forward.

I seriously doubt that over 25% of Americans actually believe god exists, and they are mainly old people who will not be replaced as fast as they die off. Keep in mind the places where religion thrives are isolated from education, and the internet is knocking down that fence as we speak.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Mark Twain.

 

[magnifier661]

Okay so now everyone got off their soap boxes of personal beliefs; which actually isn't evidence. Have the "Atheist defense" rest on evidence that "God does not exist"?

 

[ABM]

Funny how it does so well in places with little to no education.

No kidding. We're a lot smarter here than to, like, actually believe in God.

 

[magnifier661]

Your usage of probability is... unique. I will give you that.

Box of 100 toothpicks lining up to a specific order has 100 different picks X 100 X 99 X 98 ext. okay so it's 10 to the 100th power? It's definitely not 1%.

Still like my chances that a person put it there. That's mathematically more "probable" yes?

 

[magnifier661]

No kidding. We're a lot smarter here than to, like, actually believe in God.

LOL

 

[MadeFromDust]

Bullshit.

I love this response. Don't let these things get in the way of your beliefs.

 

[MARIS61]

Which makes it not very sound. Because they want you to "Not" believe; they better damn well have enough evidence to justify "not" believing.

You are not making sense.

What part of "you cannot prove a negative" do you not understand?

 

[MARIS61]

Perusing this thread, and it appears that many people don't understand the difference between the words "refuted" and "debated".

No surprise, though.

I've seen a lot of refuting here, but no point has been presented yet for debate.

 

[julius]

holy shit, i want the last 45 minutes of my life back.

 

[MARIS61]

I acknowledge you believe what you do. You can't show me a shred of objective evidence that god exists, though. If you could, every atheist here would be skeptical at first, but converts.

Absolutely. Truth is King.

I hope he'd be a better god than the POS manmade asshole the bible talks about though. Otherwise, he'd be facing arrest for mass murder.

 

[ABM]

Absolutely. Truth is King.

I hope he'd be a better god than the POS manmade asshole the bible talks about though. Otherwise, he'd be facing arrest for mass murder.

God had to preserve a remnant of believers. There were a lot of baaad people back there in them times, brutha.

 

[magnifier661]

Absolutely. Truth is King.

I hope he'd be a better god than the POS manmade asshole the bible talks about though. Otherwise, he'd be facing arrest for mass murder.

Lol bringing up the bible again! :MARIS61:

 

[Denny Crane]

Okay so now everyone got off their soap boxes of personal beliefs; which actually isn't evidence. Have the "Atheist defense" rest on evidence that "God does not exist"?

Straw man argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[

(How many times and how many people have to say you cannot prove god doesn't exist and you keep demanding evidence god does not exist?)

The key question is where's the evidence he DOES?

 

[MARIS61]

The word from FOX, god's own network:

Christianity is plummeting in America, while the number of non-believers is skyrocketing.

A shocking new study of Americans’ religious beliefs shows the beginnings of a major realignment in Americans’ relationship with God. The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reveals that Protestants now represent half of all Americans, down almost 20 percent in the last twenty years. In the coming months, America will become a minority Protestant nation for the first time since the pilgrims.

The number of people who claim no religious affiliation, meanwhile, has doubled since 1990 to fifteen percent, its highest point in history. Non-believers now represent the third-highest group of Americans, after Catholics and Baptists.

Other headlines:

1) The number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990, and is now 76%, the lowest percentage in American history.

2) The growth of non-believers has come largely from men. Twenty percent of men express no religious affiliation; 12% of women.

3) Young people are fleeing faith. Nearly a quarter of Americans in their 20’s profess no organized religion.

4) But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.

The implications for American society are profound. Americans’ relationship with God, which drove many of the country’s great transformations from the pilgrims to the founding fathers, the Civil War to the civil rights movement, is still intact. Eighty-two percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power.

But at the same time, the study offers yet another wake-up call for religious institutions.

First, catering to older believers is a recipe for failure; younger Americans are tuning out.

Second, Americans are interested in God, but they don’t think existing institutions are helping them draw closer to God.

Finally, Americans’ interest in religion has not always been stable. It dipped following the Revolution and again following Civil War. In both cases it rebounded because religious institutions adapted and found new ways of relating to everyday Americans.

Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions.

Or risk becoming Europe, where religion is fast becoming an afterthought.

Bruce Feiler is bestselling author of eight books, including "Walking the Bible" and "Abraham," and the host of the PBS series on "Walking the Bible." A frequent commentator on National Public Radio, CNN and FOX News. His latest book "America's Prophet: Moses and the American Story" will be published in October.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/09/25/bruce-feiler-christians-americans-gone/#ixzz1kigIpxYq

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/09/25/bruce-feiler-christians-americans-gone/#ixzz1kifoluF5

 

[ABM]

The word from FOX, god's own network:

Christianity is plummeting in America, while the number of non-believers is skyrocketing.

Again, who's to say they were true believers in the first place? And again, I'll cite the parable of the sower.

 

[MARIS61]

I love this response. Don't let these things get in the way of your beliefs.

You just make shit up and post it. It's childish and annoying.

Don't cry like a baby when someone calls you on it.

Oh look, GAME TIME! GO BLAZERS!

 

[MadeFromDust]

You just make shit up and post it. It's childish and annoying.

Don't cry like a baby when someone calls you on it.

Oh look, GAME TIME! GO BLAZERS!

I didn't make anything up, you can look it up yourself. That article you posted was already posted earlier from a different source. 93% of Americans believe in God, deal with it.

 

[MARIS61]

Again, who's to say they were true believers in the first place? And again, I'll cite the parable of the sower.

Who's to say anyone is then?

Weak sauce.

 

[magnifier661]

Straw man argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[

(How many times and how many people have to say you cannot prove god doesn't exist and you keep demanding evidence god does not exist?)

The key question is where's the evidence he DOES?

Okay so you have none. Why do you argue strawman? I am providing evidence. Philisophical, logical and debatable evidence. All you've done is try to refute the evidence. You havent refuted anything in my opinion. And to top it off, you can't even give evidence that atheism is a sound belief. If you believe there is no god then you must have evidence to support that belief.

You can dodge this all you like. Just say you don't have evidence or choose not to give evidence. Pretty simple.

 

[ABM]

Who's to say anyone is then?

Weak sauce.

Weak sauce. Jesus' parable. OK, MARIS, it's certainly your opinion.

[video=youtube;0llCZypNQG4]

 

[TripTango]

Box of 100 toothpicks lining up to a specific order has 100 different picks X 100 X 99 X 98 ext. okay so it's 10 to the 100th power? It's definitely not 1%.

Still like my chances that a person put it there. That's mathematically more "probable" yes?

I'm going to try and make this quick, because I want to go get a beer and watch the game.

First off, I went back and reread your points #4 and #5 post, and admit that I misread #4 the first time. I thought you said only that some of the toothpicks spelled your name, when in fact you specified that each and every one was in perfect arrangement -- very different. (For what it's worth, your probability calculation is still way off, but you're right that the chances of ONE box landing in that specific arrangement are ridiculously small). The problem with the metaphor as you framed it is this: there are no such "toothpick names" in the natural world. There are patterns to be found, yes. But I've already explained how it is not just a probability but a CERTAINTY to arrive at some form of pattern based on just a few simple rules and elementary building blocks. (And again, you are free to ask "well where did the rules and building blocks come from", but that is an old argument that we already discussed.) Simple patterns in nature arise from known and generally well-understood interactions between bits of matter all the time -- they are hardly equivalent to finding one's name perfectly spelled in toothpicks. Look again at my "spheres in a bowl" example. There's no artist, and yet we see a very clear pattern based only on geometry and gravity.

Now, if we WERE to find a message from God spelled out in the natural world, THAT would be something. I can see it now:

Scientist 1: "Finally! Our Super-powered Femto-meter Confounding Lens Awesome-scope is ready! We can probe deeper into matter than ever before!"
Scientist 2: "Great! Let's turn it on!"
(Scientists turn on scope and fist-bump)
Scientist 1: "Ok, probing atom. Going... DEEPER. Wait. What's this? There's a tiny tag attached to the atom! It says something on it! In English!"
Scientist 2: "Whoa! What does it say?"
Scientist 1: "MADE BY GOD"
Both Scientists: "WHAAAAAAA??"
(Zoom out to God, played by Ashton Kutcher)
God: "Y'all been punk'd!"

This, by the way, is ANOTHER scenario that would make me a theist. And a proud one, too -- that would be the Greatest Practical Joke in the History of the Universe.

But we have found no such tag.

 

[ABM]

...But we have found no such tag.

Faith, the final frontier.

 

[magnifier661]

Trip great read seriously!!!!

 

[TripTango]

Faith, the final frontier.

Wait a minute... Captain Kirk said "the final frontier". Captain Kirk was played by Shatner, who also played... DENNY CRANE. Now we have truly come full circle.

 

[TripTango]

Trip great read seriously!!!!

Thanks!

 

[ABM]

Simple patterns in nature arise from known and generally well-understood interactions between bits of matter all the time --

Nonetheless, we still can't accurately predict the weather. Chaos is a bi....

 

[ABM]

Wait a minute... Captain Kirk said "the final frontier". Captain Kirk was played by Shatner, who also played... DENNY CRANE. Now we have truly come full circle-jerk.

FTFY.

 

[TripTango]

Nonetheless, we still can't accurately predict the weather. Chaos is a bi....

So wait, is the world orderly, revealing a meticulous planner, or is it random, revealing a wild, unpredictable genius? It's funny how some folks take EITHER possibility to be evidence for God.

Once you've decided to accept literally everything as evidence, you will have no trouble convincing yourself.