EX-BLAZERS' HOME COURT: PORTLAND

[Boob-No-More]

OKay, so you guys do understand that not all cities have the same amount of roads and square mileage within the borders right?

So cities that have more people living within the same space than a city with less people in the same space would mean worst traffic right?

You got that exactly backwards. Greater housing density makes traffic better, not worse, in a large urban area. It is urban sprawl in places like LA and Seattle that makes their traffic so heinous. With greater housing density, people, in general, live closer to where they work, closer to where they shop and closer to where they recreate. All that means less miles traveled to where they want to be, and less time spent in their cars clogging up the limited space on the freeways. I don't even live in the city, but I can walk, or ride my bike to work, to the grocery store, to the bank, to the post office, etc. I don't have to even get in my car to go to 90% of the places I need/want to be. Try that in LA or Seattle some time.

Portland, and I'm not just talking the city proper, I'm including the entire Portland metropolitan area, is much more compact than Seattle or LA, because we have had an urban growth boundary and thoughtful urban planning going all the way back to 1970. It is the sprawling suburbs in Seattle and LA that has made traffic in those areas so bad.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Exactly.
I think I explained it better in my next post.

Per capita based on the city limit square mileage.

I think what's much more telling, when it comes to traffic, isn't the population density in the inner city, I think it's the average commute distance. When you have urban sprawl, the distance from the suburbs into the city increases, that makes commutes longer and traffic worse. Seattle is exceptionally bad, because the city proper is sandwiched between two very large bodies of water, Throw in poor (or more accurately, no, urban planning) and it's a traffic nightmare.

Try commuting from Bellevue into downtown Seattle and compare than to commuting from Beaverton into downtown Portland and you'll see what I mean. From Bellevue into downtown Seattle, you have two floating bridges. Sure you can go around Lake Washington, but that's usually even worse. In both cities, the major freeways will be clogged with traffic during rush hour, but in Portland, you have alternate routes and the option to ride the Max. In Seattle, unless you own a boat or a helicopter, your options are limited.

 

[julius]

I know that Steve Johnson and Desmond Mason also live here......

Steve Johnson was listed in the article.

It would be interesting to find out how many non Oregonian or former Blazers live in the area. I've always found it interesting that Hersey Hawkins works for the team, having never played for the team.

And I think I read somewhere that Frank Brickowski lives in the area too.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You got that exactly backwards. Greater housing density makes traffic better, not worse, in a large urban area. It is urban sprawl in places like LA and Seattle that makes their traffic so heinous. With greater housing density, people, in general, live closer to where they work, closer to where they shop and closer to where they recreate. All that means less miles traveled to where they want to be, and less time spent in their cars clogging up the limited space on the freeways. I don't even live in the city, but I can walk, or ride my bike to work, to the grocery store, to the bank, to the post office, etc. I don't have to even get in my car to go to 90% of the places I need/want to be. Try that in LA or Seattle some time.

Portland, and I'm not just talking the city proper, I'm including the entire Portland metropolitan area, is much more compact than Seattle or LA, because we have had an urban growth boundary and thoughtful urban planning going all the way back to 1970. It is the sprawling suburbs in Seattle and LA that has made traffic in those areas so bad.

BNM

I think what's much more telling, when it comes to traffic, isn't the population density in the inner city, I think it's the average commute distance. When you have urban sprawl, the distance from the suburbs into the city increases, that makes commutes longer and traffic worse. Seattle is exceptionally bad, because the city proper is sandwiched between two very large bodies of water, Throw in poor (or more accurately, no, urban planning) and it's a traffic nightmare.

Try commuting from Bellevue into downtown Seattle and compare than to commuting from Beaverton into downtown Portland and you'll see what I mean. From Bellevue into downtown Seattle, you have two floating bridges. Sure you can go around Lake Washington, but that's usually even worse. In both cities, the major freeways will be clogged with traffic during rush hour, but in Portland, you have alternate routes and the option to ride the Max. In Seattle, unless you own a boat or a helicopter, your options are limited.

good points I didnt think about.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think what's much more telling, when it comes to traffic, isn't the population density in the inner city, I think it's the average commute distance. When you have urban sprawl, the distance from the suburbs into the city increases, that makes commutes longer and traffic worse. Seattle is exceptionally bad, because the city proper is sandwiched between two very large bodies of water, Throw in poor (or more accurately, no, urban planning) and it's a traffic nightmare.

Try commuting from Bellevue into downtown Seattle and compare than to commuting from Beaverton into downtown Portland and you'll see what I mean. From Bellevue into downtown Seattle, you have two floating bridges. Sure you can go around Lake Washington, but that's usually even worse. In both cities, the major freeways will be clogged with traffic during rush hour, but in Portland, you have alternate routes and the option to ride the Max. In Seattle, unless you own a boat or a helicopter, your options are limited.

I do think Seattle is somewhat an unfair comparison because of all the waterways. That would be more like comparing to the bay area. but I get your point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Wait though. I used to live in the Puget sound. All over south King County. Beaverton to Portland is only 7.1 miles. Bellevue to Seattle is 10.7 miles and only has one way to cross the river unless headingdown to Factoria square.

Seattle is not a good comparison because they cant build multiple through ways like LA and Portland can. Even Portland is somewhat limited because of the river and west hillside.

I still get your point

I also still think Portland traffic really sucks when it takes me on average of an hour and a half to go 29.4 miles from my work to home ever day.

 

[julius]

OKay, so you guys do understand that not all cities have the same amount of roads and square mileage within the borders right?

So cities that have more people living within the same space than a city with less people in the same space would mean worst traffic right?
My point is the city limits of Portland is dwarfed by the size of Seattle and LA metro. The amount of people per square mile is much more in both of those cities. There are less people per square mile in Portland. Like ALOT less, yet we are right behind those cities in traffic. Does that make more sense?

Did you mean to compare "city limits" to the "metro" area of the cities?

Portland is dwarfed by LA (their metro area is about 13K square miles). However, the the Metro areas for Portland and Seattle aren't significantly different, one is about 6000 square miles, and the other is 8000. A lot of why Portlands metro area isn't as encompassing as Seattles is the urban growth boundary.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's just that my confusion is how you worded it. Especially since if you compare the CITY of Seattle to the city of Portland, it is actually smaller than Portland.

 

[noknobs]

Beyond Portland being a great place to raise a family it also has other benefits that many states don't offer:

Antonio Harvey:

He says he is doing fine. "I grow weed for a living," Harvey said. "How can I be doing bad?"

Cliff Robinson:

Under the "Uncle Spliffy" banner, is doing licensing endorsement partnering with companies that market cannabis products.

By the way, regarding traffic - I live in L.A. (and by that I mean the area around L.A.) and whenever I visit family in the Portland area and hear people bitch about traffic I laugh. Yes traffic in Portland has gotten worse than when I was growing up, but there's just no comparison. Los Angeles is an endless sea of shit, concrete and traffic. It's a huge place and there's still way too many people in it. I really miss Oregon.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I do think Seattle is somewhat an unfair comparison because of all the waterways. That would be more like comparing to the bay area. but I get your point.

It's all that water combined with uncontrolled growth and poor urban planning.

Average age also plays a role in commute times. Younger, single people are more likely to rent an apartment close to where they work and/or like to hang out. Once people get a little older, want to buy a house, have a family, etc. they tend to move to the suburbs where the schools are better and they will have a yard for their kids to play in. That means they tend to have longer commute distances and, of course, longer commute times. In some cases, the Bay Area especially, and more recently Seattle, that leads to what are called super commuters that live over 50 miles from where they work as they can't afford a decent family house closer to the city.

There are many variables that figure into urban planning. It's more than just traffic and public transportation. It's smart zoning laws that allow people to live closer to where they work. If you're really interested in this topic, I recommend Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream, by Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk. I was really into the whole quality of life thing back when our kids were little. We looked into relocating, but after reading that book and weighing our options, decided to stay right here in Portland.

Due to the work or people like Duany and Plater-Zyberk (and others), Portland is kind of a mecca for the whole New Urbanism movement. We attended a weeding in Toledo, OH three years ago and stayed at a really nice bead & breakfast is a truly horrible part of town (basically, all of Toledo fits that description). The B&B was owned by a couple that served as our hosts. The husband also served on the city council and when he heard I was from Portland, all he wanted to talk about was urban planning and how he attended a conference on the subject in Portland every year.

All things considered, it really is a nice place to live. People here (for the most part) actually care and want to keep it that way.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Did you mean to compare "city limits" to the "metro" area of the cities?

Portland is dwarfed by LA (their metro area is about 13K square miles). However, the the Metro areas for Portland and Seattle aren't significantly different, one is about 6000 square miles, and the other is 8000. A lot of why Portlands metro area isn't as encompassing as Seattles is the urban growth boundary.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's just that my confusion is how you worded it. Especially since if you compare the CITY of Seattle to the city of Portland, it is actually smaller than Portland.

Yeah, sorry. Meant metro because most commuters don't actually live in the city limits.

 

[Sean.ivity]

Ha perfect timing for this, I work for amazon and just delivered to a Martell Webster and was going to come here and asked if he lives in town. With the name and size of the house i will take a guess and say it was his house, lol.

 

[Mediocre Man]

More will now that weed is legal

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's all that water combined with uncontrolled growth and poor urban planning.

Average age also plays a role in commute times. Younger, single people are more likely to rent an apartment close to where they work and/or like to hang out. Once people get a little older, want to buy a house, have a family, etc. they tend to move to the suburbs where the schools are better and they will have a yard for their kids to play in. That means they tend to have longer commute distances and, of course, longer commute times. In some cases, the Bay Area especially, and more recently Seattle, that leads to what are called super commuters that live over 50 miles from where they work as they can't afford a decent family house closer to the city.

There are many variables that figure into urban planning. It's more than just traffic and public transportation. It's smart zoning laws that allow people to live closer to where they work. If you're really interested in this topic, I recommend Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream, by Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk. I was really into the whole quality of life thing back when our kids were little. We looked into relocating, but after reading that book and weighing our options, decided to stay right here in Portland.

Due to the work or people like Duany and Plater-Zyberk (and others), Portland is kind of a mecca for the whole New Urbanism movement. We attended a weeding in Toledo, OH three years ago and stayed at a really nice bead & breakfast is a truly horrible part of town (basically, all of Toledo fits that description). The B&B was owned by a couple that served as our hosts. The husband also served on the city council and when he heard I was from Portland, all he wanted to talk about was urban planning and how he attended a conference on the subject in Portland every year.

All things considered, it really is a nice place to live. People here (for the most part) actually care and want to keep it that way.

BNM

So when I was in college, I wanted to be a cop and one of the things they had me take was a ... crap. I forget. It was a Political Science classs based on urban growth and traffic congestion. The professor centered his course around Puget Sound Traffic.

There is no fix. You are right. IT's beyond fed up up there no doubt about it. Up there you have people from Kent commuting to Redmond and people in Redmond commuting to Sea-Tac and people in federal way commuting to Renton, etc. etc. etc. Its truly a sloppy spaghetti factory up there.

 

[Boob-No-More]

So when I was in college, I wanted to be a cop and one of the things they had me take was a ... crap. I forget. It was a Political Science classs based on urban growth and traffic congestion. The professor centered his course around Puget Sound Traffic.

There is no fix. You are right. IT's beyond fed up up there no doubt about it. Up there you have people from Kent commuting to Redmond and people in Redmond commuting to Sea-Tac and people in federal way commuting to Renton, etc. etc. etc. Its truly a sloppy spaghetti factory up there.

I could see it when we lived up their in the 1980s. It was already bad and it was like they had just given up. Rather than attempting to make it better, they just kept charging ahead making the same mistakes over and over.

Portland was exactly the opposite They had started planning ahead way back in the early 1970s (even earlier in some ways). Compared to what the city is now, back in 1973, when Ton McCall signed a bill creating the Land Conservation and Development Commission, Portland was a relatively small city with a dying timber based economy. Yet, they were still planning ahead for managing the inevitable future growth.

We owe our current quality of life to forward thinkers like Ton McCall and Oswald West.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Best planned city in the US?

SLC.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Best planned city in the US?

SLC.

Technically, at the time it was planned it wasn't a US city.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Technically, at the time it was planned it wasn't a US city.

BNM

True. Ever been there? Streets are twice as wide as NYC.

 

[dviss1]

Portland's homeless camping anywhere they want is out of control.

Where would you go if you had no one?

 

[Boob-No-More]

True. Ever been there? Streets are twice as wide as NYC.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Salt Lake City, but I have driven through on 1-15 many times. The only time traffic was bad was during all the construction leading up to the 2000 Winter Olympics. For about a year and a half, rush hour traffic was as bad there as anywhere else as they were repaving and widening the major freeways to get the city ready for the Olympics.

BNM

 

[tlongII]

Where would you go if you had no one?

San Diego

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

It's all that water combined with uncontrolled growth and poor urban planning.

Average age also plays a role in commute times. Younger, single people are more likely to rent an apartment close to where they work and/or like to hang out. Once people get a little older, want to buy a house, have a family, etc. they tend to move to the suburbs where the schools are better and they will have a yard for their kids to play in. That means they tend to have longer commute distances and, of course, longer commute times. In some cases, the Bay Area especially, and more recently Seattle, that leads to what are called super commuters that live over 50 miles from where they work as they can't afford a decent family house closer to the city.

There are many variables that figure into urban planning. It's more than just traffic and public transportation. It's smart zoning laws that allow people to live closer to where they work. If you're really interested in this topic, I recommend Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream, by Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk. I was really into the whole quality of life thing back when our kids were little. We looked into relocating, but after reading that book and weighing our options, decided to stay right here in Portland.

Due to the work or people like Duany and Plater-Zyberk (and others), Portland is kind of a mecca for the whole New Urbanism movement. We attended a weeding in Toledo, OH three years ago and stayed at a really nice bead & breakfast is a truly horrible part of town (basically, all of Toledo fits that description). The B&B was owned by a couple that served as our hosts. The husband also served on the city council and when he heard I was from Portland, all he wanted to talk about was urban planning and how he attended a conference on the subject in Portland every year.

All things considered, it really is a nice place to live. People here (for the most part) actually care and want to keep it that way.

BNM

I agree that we're lucky to have the UGB, but one unfortunate side affect is that it inflates housing prices. So, just like what has happened with the rise of super commuters in Seattle and the Bay Area is has now happening in Portland and gets worse every day. People who work in the Portland area but can't afford to live there move down valley to places like Salem, etc. I commuted from Wilsonville to Salem for over 28 years and the "diurnal" increases in traffic to and from south of Portland have been amazing. I have no doubt it noticeably contributes to the traffic situation and I think that gets ignored sometimes by local urban planners.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

True. Ever been there? Streets are twice as wide as NYC.

Those wide streets were from the 19th century, not the fertile minds of more modern urban planners. Brigham Young supposed ly decreed the streets were to be wide enough for a wagon and team of oxen to turn around in. His inadvertent gift to 21st century traffic I guess........

 

[Hobbesarable]

Both, but Portland is now ranked at 7th worst and Seattle 5th worse. Per capita, we suck big time.

The rain is a compromise to the beauty.

I've noticed a lot more semi truck traffic on I-205 since the loss of Port of Portland's biggest customer Hanjin.

http://www.kptv.com/story/29365929/hanjin-port-of-portland-pull-out-means-more-truck-traffic

 

[Strenuus]

Per capita is like per 36 min.....useless stat. I wait in traffic longer in the above mentioned cities than I do in P-Town. That's all I know.

Hey! We have the most strip clubs per capita in the nation and aint nobody gonna diminish that amazing fact!

 

[Dougnsalem]

I blame how shitty our interstate system is once you get into the city

I blame @Orion Bailey s driving. I live here in the suburbs and it used to take me a hour to get to work. The traffic didn't get bad, until I got around where he lives....

 

[BigGameDamian]

More will now that weed is legal

That's why I was surprised that Rasheed, Damon and J.R. Rider weren't on the list.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

That's why I was surprised that Rasheed, Damon and J.R. Rider weren't on the list.

I think Rasheed and Damon are coaching

 

[Strenuus]

That's why I was surprised that Rasheed, Damon and J.R. Rider weren't on the list.

Because when they heard it passed, they wanted to uproot the whole family to portland

because of weed.

Right.

 

[Chris Craig]

Traffic sucks, but thats about it. and the rain has been a bit excessive this year, but thats the NW.

Traffic is better than LA...so what it rains a little

 

[jlprk]

Sorted by age!

78 Darrall Imhoff (1971-72)
76 Terry Dischinger (1972-73)
72 Shaler Halimon (1970-71)
70 Rick Adelman (1970-73, asst coach 1984-89, head coach 1989-94)
70 Greg Smith (1972-76)
67 Tom Owens (1977-81)
67 Larry Steele (1971-80)
66 Lloyd Neal (1972-79)
66 Danny Anderson (1974-76)
63 Bob Gross (1975-82)
61 Kenny Carr (1982-87)
59 Steve Johnson (1986-89)
59 Michael Harper (1980-82)
58 Darnell Valentine (1981-86)
55 Michael Holton (1986-88)
53 Terry Porter (1985-95)
50 Cliff Robinson (1989-97)
46 Antonio Harvey (1999-2001)
45 Brian Grant (1997-2000)
37 Steve Blake (2005-06, 2007-10, 2014-15)
33 Channing Frye (2007-09)
32 Travis Outlaw (2003-10)
30 Martell Webster (2005-10)

I know that Steve Johnson and Desmond Mason also live here......

Steve Johnson was listed in the article. It would be interesting to find out how many non Oregonian or former Blazers live in the area. I've always found it interesting that Hersey Hawkins works for the team, having never played for the team. And I think I read somewhere that Frank Brickowski lives in the area too.

57 Frank Brickowski (former Sonic)
50 Hersey Hawkins (former Sonic, on current coaching staff)
39 Desmond Mason (former Sonic)