F' Miami

[Fairly-Hard]

Dame wants it to be like free agency. He wants his cake and eat it too. He got his money, security and now he wants to play somewhere else without that team having to give up any assets

Not liking that he waited until after they made a deal to keep Grant as well. I simply cannot think this is over yet?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Yes, I prefer the Nets as a trade partner. But the more I think about it, maybe Miami does have something to offer.

Have we discussed Jaquez Jr and Jovic in detail? If not maybe we should.
I have watched Jaquez quite a bit and I like him. I think he could be a very good starting SF next to Scoot and Sharpe

Jovic I know nothing about except he looks like a stretch PF in his highlights. Does he have the potential to be very good?
I want to hear from the Jovic supporters if there are any.

If Miami can come up with a 3rd young player for Herro, (Big if) they might be able to come up with a package with Lowry as a big part of the matching salaries.......if we think Jaquez and Jovic are any good.

Supposedly they are not available. They are considered the Heats future much like Sharpe and Scoot are for the Blazers.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Not liking that he waited until after they made a deal to keep Grant as well. I simply cannot think this is over yet?

I’ve been preaching to anyone that would listen…..nevermind

 

[blazerkor]

Not liking that he waited until after they made a deal to keep Grant as well. I simply cannot think this is over yet?

If the reports are true he didn't wait. He told them he wanted out on Monday. He probably did that so they would have that context entering all free agency dealings.

People are discarding all of the high character things we've seen from Dame for 11 years because they don't like the way he's handling this situation but remember we haven't heard from him and we know he and his agent had a meeting with Joe on Monday. So I wish everyone would stop trying to pin Jerami's signing on Dame. If anything it was Joe being stubborn... that's just another assumption with no more evidence than you have for yours but I just don't see Dame doing the team like that especially given the fact that he and his agent met with them well before free agency.

 

[Graduate32]

Yes, I prefer the Nets as a trade partner. But the more I think about it, maybe Miami does have something to offer.

Have we discussed Jaquez Jr and Jovic in detail? If not maybe we should.
I have watched Jaquez quite a bit and I like him. I think he could be a very good starting SF next to Scoot and Sharpe

Jovic I know nothing about except he looks like a stretch PF in his highlights. Does he have the potential to be very good?
I want to hear from the Jovic supporters if there are any.

If Miami can come up with a 3rd young player for Herro, (Big if) they might be able to come up with a package with Lowry as a big part of the matching salaries.......if we think Jaquez and Jovic are any good.

I like Jaquez as a longterm NBA hustle backup role player, but I just don't see impact-starter-level upside. I don't think he has the length, lateral mobility, or defensive reaction to be all that effective as a role-playing starting small forward. He seems more like a change-of-pace backup in the mold of perhaps of a smaller, but a bit more versatile Montrezl Harrell (without some of the drama). That could be a very useful player in the right contexts (and Miami was a good fit), but I am pretty meh on his sustainable longterm impact.

For a rebuilding team shooting for a bit more upside, I'd be far more interested in Jovic of the two.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

If the reports are true he didn't wait. He told them he wanted out on Monday. He probably did that so they would have that context entering all free agency dealings.

People are discarding all of the high character things we've seen from Dame for 11 years because they don't like the way he's handling this situation but remember we haven't heard from him and we know he and his agent had a meeting with Joe on Monday. So I wish everyone would stop trying to pin Jerami's signing on Dame. If anything it was Joe being stubborn... that's just another assumption with no more evidence than you have for yours but I just don't see Dame doing the team like that especially given the fact that he and his agent met with them well before free agency.

Probably correct.
There is no way Lillard has a meeting with Joe and says "lets keep building a winner together" then 3-4 days later says "I want out".
Joe was lying and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Graduate32]

Probably correct.
There is no way Lillard has a meeting with Joe and says "lets keep building a winner together" then 3-4 days later says "I want out".
Joe was lying and it's pretty obvious.

I would imagine that it was likely somewhere in between:

1. Dame comes in and requests a trade.
2. Joe hears those wishes and asks Dame to give him/Blazers to the end of the week to explore non-Dame-trade options. Dame acquiesces to this request and agrees to "stay silent" until the end of the week.
3. Joe can state: "we are committed to building around Dame" in good faith because that's what he intends to do for the next few days...
4. Nothing worthwhile materializes by the end of the week and thus, Dame moves forward publicly with his request.

We live in a moment in which we want everything to be black or white, right or wrong, good or villain, etc. But the reality is that in life and relationships, all of this is far more complicated. We actually don't need to villainize either Cronin or Dame, but rather understand that they are working through a mutually difficult situation.

 

[blazerkor]

Probably correct.
There is no way Lillard has a meeting with Joe and says "lets keep building a winner together" then 3-4 days later says "I want out".
Joe was lying and it's pretty obvious.

I don't even know that Joe was lying. Just like I don't think he's lying when he says he's going to push all of his chips in and then over and over again does the opposite. Joe thinks he can pull shit off that he just can't.

So Dame was probably unequivocal in his trade demand on Monday and Joe probably said, "Give me three more days." and Dame probably just shook his head and said something like "sure" or "cool whatever". I don't think Joe is a liar but I think we have enough history of him writing checks that he thinks he'll have the money to cash that are then no good, to know him a little. I think we have a lot of experience with Dame having a ton of integrity to at least give him the benefit of the doubt that even if his demands right now seem unfair, he at least delivered those demands with integrity.

Also Dame knows the team can in theory trade him wherever the team wants to but he also has an agent that can reach out to any trade partner in the league and tell them that Dame won't be happy there. People might think that is dirty. I do not. I think it's been far dirtier for the front office to tell Dame one thing and do another over and over again. The problem is that people think Dame is doing this to us the fans, when the much more important relationship to Dame that has been fractured is between him and the team. Dame likely doesn't see himself as the cause of that fracture and I tend to see it that way myself.

 

[illmatic99]

Was talking this thru with the wife last night after she saw how distraught i was.

How wrong would it be for me to become a Miami fan? Until we have a new owner, I think supporting Jodys team is wrong.

 

[blazerkor]

I would imagine that it was likely somewhere in between:

1. Dame comes in and requests a trade.
2. Joe hears those wishes and asks Dame to give him/Blazers to the end of the week to explore non-Dame-trade options. Dame acquiesces to this request and agrees to "stay silent" until the end of the week.
3. Joe can state: "we are committed to building around Dame" in good faith because that's what he intends to do for the next few days...
4. Nothing worthwhile materializes by the end of the week and thus, Dame moves forward publicly with his request.

We live in a moment in which we want everything to be black or white, right or wrong, good or villain, etc. But the reality is that in life and relationships, all of this is far more complicated. We actually don't need to villainize either Cronin or Dame, but rather understand that they are working through a mutually difficult situation.

I agree with this completely and just like most of us have seen divorces where we care about the people on both sides and then see both people do things we don't like, I imagine some of that is happening right now. A lot of times kids are caught up in those situations and the kids should be given a lot more consideration than they often are. We are not the kids in this situation even if we feel like it because as fans we're just way further removed than kids would be in an analogous divorce.

 

[Sloth]

Was talking this thru with the wife last night after she saw how distraught i was.

How wrong would it be for me to become a Miami fan? Until we have a new owner, I think supporting Jodys team is wrong.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't even know that Joe was lying. Just like I don't think he's lying when he says he's going to push all of his chips in and then over and over again does the opposite. Joe thinks he can pull shit off that he just can't.

So Dame was probably unequivocal in his trade demand on Monday and Joe probably said, "Give me three more days." and Dame probably just shook his head and said something like "sure" or "cool whatever". I don't think Joe is a liar but I think we have enough history of him writing checks that he thinks he'll have the money to cash that are then no good, to know him a little. I think we have a lot of experience with Dame having a ton of integrity to at least give him the benefit of the doubt that even if his demands right now seem unfair, he at least delivered those demands with integrity.

Also Dame knows the team can in theory trade him wherever the team wants to but he also has an agent that can reach out to any trade partner in the league and tell them that Dame won't be happy there. People might think that is dirty. I do not. I think it's been far dirtier for the front office to tell Dame one thing and do another over and over again. The problem is that people think Dame is doing this to us the fans, when the much more important relationship to Dame that has been fractured is between him and the team. Dame likely doesn't see himself as the cause of that fracture and I tend to see it that way myself.

You guys are really getting creative.

The reports are that Dame was leaning trade but Joe convinced him to wait. Dame had a call with Chauncey on Friday after we did Jack shit and decided to ask out. There were reports from Dames camp after the Monday meeting saying that he wanted to give the team time to do their thing in free agency.

There was no indication that dame asked for a trade. There was a lot of smoke that he was leaning that way though.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Was talking this thru with the wife last night after she saw how distraught i was.

How wrong would it be for me to become a Miami fan? Until we have a new owner, I think supporting Jodys team is wrong.

And your wife slapped you and said, "snap out of it you idiot! It's just fucking basketball. You want wrong? Let me show you the fucking news!"
Right?

 

[TheGoldRanger]

I think Miami strategically signed Jaime hoping Joe would be impatient and not have to include him in a potential deal. Yeah, Fuck Pat Riley… Fuck the Heat…

 

[blazerkor]

Was talking this thru with the wife last night after she saw how distraught i was.

How wrong would it be for me to become a Miami fan? Until we have a new owner, I think supporting Jodys team is wrong.

You've got to do you. I do not like the way this team is being run. I think they put Dame in an awful position, in fact I think they put him in so many awful positions that it broke his loyalty that he very much was sincere about.

So I will continue to be a huge Dame fan.

Personally regardless of bad ownership, management, coaching or even players I've never been able to not be a huge Blazers fan. I'm waiting for this trade to go through so I can move on from this ugliness and start being excited about whoever it is we have on the roster with Scoot and Shaedon who I'm already really excited to watch play in Blazers uniforms even though that excitement is being clouded by the bullshit we're watching play out.

To me if Dame is handling this in a way that I think is unfair by only giving the team one option when that option doesn't have enough to offer the team and still be the place where Dame wants to play, Dame is doing so because he feels like his loyalty was met with extreme disloyalty. It is important to note that the only person that has reported that it's Miami or bust is Sam Amick and everyone else is citing his report in theirs. So while I'm not saying it's false it could be just like when Dame was reported to have demanded a trade a few years ago and hadn't. I do think the trade demand has been confirmed by plenty of sources for us to see that as a fact.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Miami strategically signed Jaime hoping Joe would be impatient and not have to include him in a potential deal. Yeah, Fuck Pat Riley… Fuck the Heat…

Definitely feels like a cheap move.

 

[Graduate32]

Was talking this thru with the wife last night after she saw how distraught i was.

How wrong would it be for me to become a Miami fan? Until we have a new owner, I think supporting Jodys team is wrong.

Hey man, you do you. It's your fandom, and you don't need approval from anyone here if you want to follow Dame to his next destination (I am assuming that's why you indicated Miami)... come back (or not) when the time is right -- this forum will keep chugging along.

Or are you simply making point and asking internet forum posters to talk you out of it for dramatic effect? If so, yikes.

 

[illmatic99]

And your wife slapped you and said, "snap out of it you idiot! It's just fucking basketball. You want wrong? Let me show you the fucking news!"
Right?

she usually woulda made fun of me but i was a mess yesterday man. shit got to me.

 

[illmatic99]

Hey man, you do you. It's your fandom, and you don't need approval from anyone here if you want to follow Dame to his next destination (I am assuming that's why you indicated Miami)... come back (or not) when the time is right -- this forum will keep chugging along.

Or are you simply making point and asking internet forum posters to talk you out of it for dramatic effect? If so, yikes.

nah not seeking advice. just pissed at how poorly this org is run to have run this guy out of town.

 

[blazerkor]

she usually woulda made fun of me but i was a mess yesterday man. shit got to me.

Yeah, it's been stressing me out to and that's exactly the opposite reason that I'm a sports fan this is supposed to be fun and relatively inconsequential. It's really easy for me to be pissed about a tough loss in a game, even in the playoffs when it ends our season and be fine about it a half hour later. Sports are fun to get wrapped up in in the moment and then forget about. This is hitting differently. Sorry that what's supposed to be fun is messing you up but you're not alone in that.

 

[Hoopguru]

As long as the team is part of PA’s estate and managed by Jody & Bert, there will never be a decentralized approach that benefits a team in a smaller market. Dame realizes this now in a big way.
When a guy like Joe thats been true Vulcan for years, remains the conduit to their centralized approach one of the big time negatives, is a lack of urgency.
Slow to move.

 

[illmatic99]

Yeah, it's been stressing me out to and that's exactly the opposite reason that I'm a sports fan this is supposed to be fun and relatively inconsequential. It's really easy for me to be pissed about a tough loss in a game, even in the playoffs when it ends our season and be fine about it a half hour later. Sports are fun to get wrapped up in in the moment and then forget about. This is hitting differently. Sorry that what's supposed to be fun is messing you up but you're not alone in that.

dame asking out and leaving is not that big of a deal in a vacuum. like every star player asks out eventually, and he gave us 11 yrs.

but just the way this happened and why he was motivated to leave after so steadfastly preaching loyalty is what has me so messed up. dude was in the PF in his Blazer gear every day this offseason until two weeks ago. he was in Paris rocking a Blazer tank right before the draft. this is a guy who embodied everything a franchise player is supposed to. and we couldn't put one viable roster around him?

5 yrs from now when scoot/shaedon/whoever come into their own, will our FO/ownership be ready to put what it takes around them to actually compete for anything worthwhile? we haven't been past the conf finals in 30 yrs. this isn't by accident. i'm going to get super hyped about shae/scoot and watch every one of their games, buy merch, and support them as if they're family.... all for what? for them to eventually get frustrated and leave to win elsewhere? when will we be the franchise that stars flock to?

sorry, i know i'm in my feels. been a rough 24 hrs even if i predicted this inevitability.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

dame asking out and leaving is not that big of a deal in a vacuum. like every star player asks out eventually, and he gave us 11 yrs.

but just the way this happened and why he was motivated to leave after so steadfastly preaching loyalty is what has me so messed up. dude was in the PF in his Blazer gear every day this offseason until two weeks ago. he was in Paris rocking a Blazer tank right before the draft. this is a guy who embodied everything a franchise player is supposed to. and we couldn't put one viable roster around him?

5 yrs from now when scoot/shaedon/whoever come into their own, will our FO/ownership be ready to put what it takes around them to actually compete for anything worthwhile? we haven't been past the conf finals in 30 yrs. this isn't by accident. i'm going to get super hyped about shae/scoot and watch every one of their games, buy merch, and support them as if they're family.... all for what? for them to eventually get frustrated and leave to win elsewhere? when will we be the franchise that stars flock to?

sorry, i know i'm in my feels. been a rough 24 hrs even if i predicted this inevitability.

I know how you feel man. I felt the same way when Drexler forced his way out (after having his assed kissed up one side and down the other for years by PA). Seeing him win a ring (while we got pennies on the dollar) and then go to the HOF in a Rockets jersey put me off that asshole permanently. The way Lillard has gone about this whole clusterfuck has been very hard to swallow and has definitely affected how I'll probably view him in the long run (like Dame actually gives a shit how I...or you....or any other Portland fan....feels at the moment). And that just pisses me off more. A contract with close to a a quarter of a billion dollars left on it tends to blunt even a frisson of sympathy for the guy........we should all have his choices......

 

[wizenheimer]

I would imagine that it was likely somewhere in between:

1. Dame comes in and requests a trade.
2. Joe hears those wishes and asks Dame to give him/Blazers to the end of the week to explore non-Dame-trade options. Dame acquiesces to this request and agrees to "stay silent" until the end of the week.
3. Joe can state: "we are committed to building around Dame" in good faith because that's what he intends to do for the next few days...
4. Nothing worthwhile materializes by the end of the week and thus, Dame moves forward publicly with his request.

We live in a moment in which we want everything to be black or white, right or wrong, good or villain, etc. But the reality is that in life and relationships, all of this is far more complicated. We actually don't need to villainize either Cronin or Dame, but rather understand that they are working through a mutually difficult situation.

good post.

there's a hell of a lot of bile directed at Dame based upon one tweet, from Amick I believe that said, essentially, that Dame would only play for one team, Miami. Seems a lot of people believe that's what Dame said. But that sure does not match what Dame has been for 11 years in Portland. It would be a stupid stance, and it would be unprincipled. I would say I'm surprised that some people believe that tweet and are running with it, but I'm not

to me, if Dame just wanted to find out what was going on he wouldn't have went into Monday's meeting with his agent. In light of what happened since, I find the most credible chain of events to be what has been reported and that's that Dame asked for a trade Monday, or at minimum told Cronin he was leaning that way, Cronin asked him to wait for a few days, presumably to see if something would happen at the last minute, and nothing did; so Dame formally asked for a trade. People going all ballistic about the timing of Dame's announcement appear to just want to go ballistic about anything Dame related

as for Grant's new deal, the more I have thought about it, the more it looks like an agreement that has been in place for months. Probably even before the team asked him to sit out for the tank. Maybe all the way back to when he arrived in Portland last summer. Grant wanted that 5th season and I think the Blazers agreed to give him that season months ago. My guess is that this was all independent of Dame's decisions. It was between Grant and the Blazers. In fact, just glancing at the numbers, it looks like Grant's base salary might be exactly 20% of the salary cap. If so, that's not a coincidence

 

[RonBrewer]

Good

 

[illmatic99]

I know how you feel man. I felt the same way when Drexler forced his way out (after having his assed kissed up one side and down the other for years by PA). Seeing him win a ring (while we got pennies on the dollar) and then go to the HOF in a Rockets jersey put me off that asshole permanently. The way Lillard has gone about this whole clusterfuck has been very hard to swallow and has definitely affected how I'll probably view him in the long run (like Dame actually gives a shit how I...or you....or any other Portland fan....feels at the moment). And that just pisses me off more. A contract with close to a a quarter of a billion dollars left on it tends to blunt even a frisson of sympathy for the guy........we should all have his choices......

if dame goes into the HOF as anything other than a blazer, I will be really out of sorts

 

[B-Roy]

she usually woulda made fun of me but i was a mess yesterday man. shit got to me.

I’m curious if you would have traded Scoot or Shaedon for Pascal. It’s akin to when the Kings traded Haliburton for Sabonis. Haliburton is going to be the better and younger player, but that trade balanced the Sacramento roster and turned them from a bottom feeder into a top 3 seed.

 

[Ha Seung-Boumtje-Boumjte]

Pat Riley is similar to Ric Flair. He exudes an aura of flamboyance. Just as Flair boasted about being the "Nature Boy" and his lavish outfits, and sleeping with thousands of women, Riley, with his slicked-back grease-monkey hair and sharp suits, exudes a captivating presence that demands attention. Both Flair and Riley share an undeniable charisma that draws people in, making them larger-than-life figures in their respective arenas. It's worth noting that Ric Flair, known as the "Dirtiest Player in the Game," often employed underhanded tactics to secure victories inside the wrestling ring. His flamboyant character embraced a level of dishonesty and rule-breaking that defined his wrestling persona. Pat is cut from the same cloth. He's a relentless turd.

 

[PCmor7]

I would imagine that it was likely somewhere in between:

1. Dame comes in and requests a trade.
2. Joe hears those wishes and asks Dame to give him/Blazers to the end of the week to explore non-Dame-trade options. Dame acquiesces to this request and agrees to "stay silent" until the end of the week.
3. Joe can state: "we are committed to building around Dame" in good faith because that's what he intends to do for the next few days...
4. Nothing worthwhile materializes by the end of the week and thus, Dame moves forward publicly with his request.

We live in a moment in which we want everything to be black or white, right or wrong, good or villain, etc. But the reality is that in life and relationships, all of this is far more complicated. We actually don't need to villainize either Cronin or Dame, but rather understand that they are working through a mutually difficult situation.

Great post.

 

[illmatic99]

I’m curious if you would have traded Scoot or Shaedon for Pascal. It’s akin to when the Kings traded Halliburton for Sabonis. Halliburton is going to be the better and younger player, but that trade balanced the Sacramento roster and turned them from a bottom feeder into a top 3 seed.

i have been proposing 3 + Ant for Pascal + pick deals for a while, no?

regardless, i was more upset about our inactivity with 23, Ant, or those 5 seconds, or the flexibility that we were promised to be used for better positional fits. we did.... nothing. we simply picked BPA with our picks in consecutive drafts. we gave up a veteran in Hart who actually was useful on the floor for another pick. we wasted our MLE on a guy who didn't want to be here.

there's plenty to blame Joe for outside of any potential trades with 3.