f* neil olshey

[illmatic99]

Serious question.

Does anyone think we will ever be in the top half of rebounding when we are so long ball shooting dominant?
Easy rebounds come form short shots and layups. Rebounding missed threes is not easy at all.

Defensive rebounding is the more glaring issue, and I think our new pseudo switching thing on D is causing most of those problems. That, and just flat out poor effort and 0 toughness.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Serious question.

Does anyone think we will ever be in the top half of rebounding when we are so long ball shooting dominant?
Easy rebounds come form short shots and layups. Rebounding missed threes is not easy at all.

Last season we were 3rd in ORB/G and 8th in TRB/G with essentially the same roster and the same offense.

It's not the system. It's the lack of focus and effort.

BNM

 

[noknobs]

So my summation:

1. Top free agents don't come to Portland, and will only do so in the future if we've already shown that we're a contender.

2. The FA crop was weak. Combine that with the cap increasing by about 34% and you're going to get overpaid players.

3. But to put that 34% in perspective: Before the cap increase, Crabbe's salary would be comparable to 14m per, Turner a little over 12m, Leonard close to 7m, Harkless less than 7m and Ezeli about 5.5m. Then when you start looking at some of our other contracts like Aminu, Davis, Plumlee and Vonleh you start to realize that it wouldn't be that hard to make an attractive package for a good big.

4. This was the last off season in some time in which Portland would be under the cap. So use it or lose it.

5. Once Olshey struck out on the top tier free agents I have to believe his strategy changed. It became about acquiring assets in order to make a trade, which is his strength anyways.

6. It's essentially the same team, except they all have another year of experience. We were 5th in rebounding last year and we're 25th this year. We were 20th in defense last year and we're 29th this year. For that to happen to a young team from one year to the next is perplexing, but the fault is with the players and coach, not the GM.

7. This thread is stupid.

 

[Sinobas]

I suggest stop looking through your instant media/drive-thru goggles and get a grip on the long term. I wont explain what the long term is though because you have to have vision to see it and this thread proves the lack of vision.

You won't explain what "long term" is because you have no idea. Are Leonard, Turner, and Crabbe going to start playing 5x better? Those 3 are playing right now at about the same level they have their entire careers. Why should I not call them busts when all the evidence we have so far shows that they are, and nothing but unfounded and perhaps foolish optimism says that somehow they'll start playing up to their contracts.

That's like trying to sell someone your used Toyota Corolla for $80,000 claiming it will one day become a collectors item. An utter moron might buy that, but not anyone with a shred of sense.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

The first part of noknobs' post, and every post before it: blah blah blah

Then this:

7. This thread is stupid.

/thread

 

[Nikolokolus]

These things are just flat out wrong.

I get if you say they have too many defensive deficiencies between them, and that it's hard to hide TWO negatives on defense (especially when they're both on the backcourt) and you 0 rim protection behind them.

But nearly every metric shows that they play well with each other, they have a synergistic effect on the team's offense, and that it's ridiculously hard to keep them BOTH in check. We need a third consistent, complementary player in the WORST way.

That's 90% of why I don't think they can play together. Neither guy can carry enough water defensively. But I do think that having two guys that mostly just take turns shooting does kind of kill offensive flow and makes it too easy for good defensive teams to scheme around them.

 

[Rhal]

You won't explain what "long term" is because you have no idea. Are Leonard, Turner, and Crabbe going to start playing 5x better? Those 3 are playing right now at about the same level they have their entire careers. Why should I not call them busts when all the evidence we have so far shows that they are, and nothing but unfounded and perhaps foolish optimism says that somehow they'll start playing up to their contracts.

That's like trying to sell someone your used Toyota Corolla for $80,000 claiming it will one day become a collectors item. An utter moron might buy that, but not anyone with a shred of sense.

Lets look at this
Crabbe http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crabbal01.html : He is shooting .364% from 3 and last year he shot .393%, thats a pretty big drop off. His other stats are pretty similiar but you go to his WS and last year OSW 3.1 DWS 1.2, this year OSW .4 and DWS 0.0. Thats a pretty glaring difference this year and at Crabbes age of 24 its pretty ridiculous to think he has no room to improve.
Turner http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html :
Career .304 3%, .450 2% .456 FG% 2.2 FTA 5.1 RB 3.7 assits .8 stl,
2016 .250 3% .389 2% .364 FG% 1.3 FTA 4.4 RB 2.5 assists .4 stl
So in now way is turner playing near his regular stats.

Meyers http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leoname01.html
Career FG%: .481 3% .372 2% .538 RB 4.1
2016 FG% . 327 3% .207 2% 4.62 RB 3
So even Meyers is playing significantly worse then he has in the past.

This is more like someone trying to sell you a new Yukon Denali with all the features for 20k less then asking price but its gotta be in the shop for a few months for an engine repair and your refusing to believe them unless they drive it around the lot 100x that instant.

 

[chzbrgr]

Yeah, it sucks watching your team lose, I hear you. Most of us here have been doing it since we were kids. But Neil Olshey can't put a gun to a star free agent's back and force him on a plane to Portland. We have an undesirable market and have to pay more to play the game. It's just the way it is. When you take this into account, Neil's decision making is not as horrendous as some make it out to be. It's not fair, but it's not the fault of the gm.

I mean Ive been watching the zers as long as I can remember and I got nothing against the moves we made or Neil just to be clear outside of the Crabbe/Meyers contracts (turner will be worth his money by the end of the year). We aren't a destination and that is exactly why it's important to be shrewd and business like about the process not spending resources on players you're attached to who's production could be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Good point, but somebody has to get the rebound on those missed long balls. Seems like it needs to be someone wearing a Blazer jersey a bit more frequently. The fact that the rebounds go long may help explain why our bigs aren't high in rebounding, but our guards and small forwards need to do a better job.

Dame does a great job of rebounding I think. But small yeah also hard to rebound well when your a small shooting guard and small forward. I thought Hark would be a bit better at this.

So my summation:

1. Top free agents don't come to Portland, and will only do so in the future if we've already shown that we're a contender.

2. The FA crop was weak. Combine that with the cap increasing by about 34% and you're going to get overpaid players.

3. But to put that 34% in perspective: Before the cap increase, Crabbe's salary would be comparable to 14m per, Turner a little over 12m, Leonard close to 7m, Harkless less than 7m and Ezeli about 5.5m. Then when you start looking at some of our other contracts like Aminu, Davis, Plumlee and Vonleh you start to realize that it wouldn't be that hard to make an attractive package for a good big.

4. This was the last off season in some time in which Portland would be under the cap. So use it or lose it.

5. Once Olshey struck out on the top tier free agents I have to believe his strategy changed. It became about acquiring assets in order to make a trade, which is his strength anyways.

6. It's essentially the same team, except they all have another year of experience. We were 5th in rebounding last year and we're 25th this year. We were 20th in defense last year and we're 29th this year. For that to happen to a young team from one year to the next is perplexing, but the fault is with the players and coach, not the GM.

7. This thread is stupid.

@BLAZINGGIANTS was right

You won't explain what "long term" is because you have no idea. Are Leonard, Turner, and Crabbe going to start playing 5x better? Those 3 are playing right now at about the same level they have their entire careers. Why should I not call them busts when all the evidence we have so far shows that they are, and nothing but unfounded and perhaps foolish optimism says that somehow they'll start playing up to their contracts.

That's like trying to sell someone your used Toyota Corolla for $80,000 claiming it will one day become a collectors item. An utter moron might buy that, but not anyone with a shred of sense.

First. You didn't call Leonard, Crabbe, or Turner busts in your OP. OR title. Short memory? YOU said GM... remember?????No? Takes a shred of sense?

Long term is NOT freaking the fuck out after 12 games with a 7-5 record. Obviously there are issues, but your ready to start the "Off with NO's Head" chant. Hell the OP basically is. Chill out and think about the long term possibilities and options and see if you can't see what most of us see. An imminent trade.

Trade is long term . Acquiring assets. Read the post right before yours that I quoted...Line #5. Someone else apparently had more patience than I did originally,to spell it out for you.

But, I'm thinking a guy that likes to call people racist slurs, would be the one who hasn't a clue about long term, so I didn't put much depth into a definition.... but hey.... that's just me man.

 

[Cippy91]

Don't know why we are saying fuck Neil here. Yeah we overpaid people but like others have said, pretty sure a trade of some sort is imminent especially after how Portland has played so far and signing all these guys makes it possible to make a pretty decent trade without losing a whole bunch. I think that is Neils plan now. I think the biggest thing here is guys got paid. A lot of them. They aren't as hungry anymore. It happens. I blame the players more so I do Neil. Neil isn't on the court, these guys are getting blown out by teams they would of beat last season and struggling with teams they would of blown out last season. Trade is imminent

 

[jlprk]

Dude your threads are a joke. You should stop. Hopefully Blazer management doesn't read this board because they could rightfully not give us anything or do anything for us because of bullshit like this.

Everybody hush or Sly won't get any more free bobble-heads!

Not really sure what NO could have done different? The talent is what it is. It's not like he didn't try to get Whiteside.

That sounds about right to me. Couldn't lock down Whiteside, so passed on overspending on the second tier bigs, and collected assets instead to make a move at the deadline.

In previous Olshey threads, critics said he failed to get Whiteside, and defenders said, he never pursued Whiteside, that was just wishful speculation on your part. Olshey fans go both ways on Whiteside, depending on which helps them win the argument.

2. The FA crop was weak. Combine that with the cap increasing by about 34% and you're going to get overpaid players.
3. But to put that 34% in perspective: Before the cap increase, Crabbe's salary would be comparable to 14m per, Turner a little over 12m, Leonard close to 7m, Harkless less than 7m and Ezeli about 5.5m.

That goes against your point. In 2015-16 season dollars, Crabbe & Turner are now worth about 1/6 or 1/7 of what they're now paid.

This is surprising:

We take the 3rd most contested 3s of anyone in the league. Ball isn't moving to find the open shooters like it should.

Can you explain that monstrosity? What other categories of 3-point attempts are not included in the chart (like last-second heaves, or contested non-catch and shoots)? How is the last column calculated? How did you draw conclusions about contested 3PAs from open 3PAs?

 

[HailBlazers]

Don't know why we are saying fuck Neil here. Yeah we overpaid people but like others have said, pretty sure a trade of some sort is imminent especially after how Portland has played so far and signing all these guys makes it possible to make a pretty decent trade without losing a whole bunch. I think that is Neils plan now. I think the biggest thing here is guys got paid. A lot of them. They aren't as hungry anymore. It happens. I blame the players more so I do Neil. Neil isn't on the court, these guys are getting blown out by teams they would of beat last season and struggling with teams they would of blown out last season. Trade is imminent

Now? Pretty sure that's been the plan for a while. People are so shortsighted.

 

[TBpup]

Quick is on radio right now talking about how this roster was planned/made to make trades. He mentions Ed Davis as a possible piece to move with his contract. Meyers as well, if he can make shots to increase value.

He says with these trends in rebounding and given our expectations, trades have to be considered.

Trades are needed but as poorly as some of these players are performing, their trade value is going to be crap.

Ball dominance doesn't matter if together the lineup they're in is scoring a ridiculous 1.14 points per possession. The problem is NOT on the offensive end.

They can score like crazy but they are the first point of defense and they give up as much as they score. That 3rd string rookie-type Grant was making straight line attacks over and over again. If Dame/CJ score the aforementioned 1.14 but give up 1.10 and Dame/Player X score 1.08 but give up 1.01, I'll take that. It's a two-sided game and Dame/CJ's offensive brilliance to me doesn't overcome the defensive issues, ball dominant style of play and lack of playmaking.

Adrian Dantley was a scoring machine but the Pistons traded him for Mark Aguirre who was a low post bully but didn't need the ball as much. It fit better. Dantley was a ball dominant scorer while Aguirre fit in better with what Detroit had. Result - 2 NBA Titles.

Few out there are as good as CJ as scoring but since we already have a ball dominant scorer, it become a bit of duplication (which is all over this roster) and there are too many weaknesses left over.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sinobas]

You guys are delusional if you think we're going to trade anyone other than McCollum for a good big man. You're acting like Knicks fans. Garbage isn't worth more in bulk, especially when it comes with a 17 million dollar price tag.

 

[Sinobas]

Dame does a great job of rebounding I think. But small yeah also hard to rebound well when your a small shooting guard and small forward. I thought Hark would be a bit better at this.



First. You didn't call Leonard, Crabbe, or Turner busts in your OP. OR title. Short memory? YOU said GM... remember?????No? Takes a shred of sense?

Long term is NOT freaking the fuck out after 12 games with a 7-5 record. Obviously there are issues, but your ready to start the "Off with NO's Head" chant. Hell the OP basically is. Chill out and think about the long term possibilities and options and see if you can't see what most of us see. An imminent trade.

Trade is long term . Acquiring assets. Read the post right before yours that I quoted...Line #5. Someone else apparently had more patience than I did originally,to spell it out for you.

But, I'm thinking a guy that likes to call people racist slurs, would be the one who hasn't a clue about long term, so I didn't put much depth into a definition.... but hey.... that's just me man.

Well, already addressed those other points in other points, but as far as using racist slurs, I don't generally "like to call people racist slurs". I just called the refs that because they pissed me off, and that was the worst thing I could thing of to say at the time.

I filmed an apology video for you guys

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I demand to see Olshey's emails

and his birth certificate!

 

[jlprk]

If Dame/CJ score the aforementioned 1.14 but give up 1.10 and Dame/Player X score 1.08 but give up 1.01, I'll take that. It's a two-sided game and Dame/CJ's offensive brilliance to me doesn't overcome the defensive issues, ball dominant style of play and lack of playmaking.

Adrian Dantley was a scoring machine but the Pistons traded him for Mark Aguirre who was a low post bully but didn't need the ball as much. It fit better. Dantley was a ball dominant scorer while Aguirre fit in better with what Detroit had. Result - 2 NBA Titles.

Actually, the Pistons were about to win titles with Dantley, and replacing him temporarily slowed their progress the first year they had Aguirre. To make your point better, you should answer the following questions.

CJ on, Dame off: 0.91 points per possession
Dame on, CJ off: 1.01 points per possession
Dame on, CJ on: 1.14 points per possession

That's for the 2-man lineup, right? What's the ppp for 5-man lineups with those 2 players? What's the point difference for the same 5-man lineups?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well, already addressed those other points in other points, but as far as using racist slurs, I don't generally "like to call people racist slurs". I just called the refs that because they pissed me off, and that was the worst thing I could thing of to say at the time.

I filmed an apology video for you guys

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Olshey dropped bucket loads of cash on a bench that can't even break even. Let that really sink in. We've got two 17 million dollar players coming off the BENCH and they continually lose ground to the opponent.

A couple things on this. If Allen Crabbe was valuable enough for Olshey to match the contract that was given to him by NJ. He's valuable enough to make CJ expendable in a trade that would bring in a better player.

Surely with the amount of money spent on the free agents we should been able to expect a legit third scorer out one of them. We didn't even get that.

You can take Allan Crabbes, Meyers Leonard and Evan Turners contracts and come up enough salary to bring in a DMC. There isn't one sane GM that is going to justify adding over 35 million to cap for those players. Unless he has a wish to commit career suicide.

 

[Stevenson]

Few out there are as good as CJ as scoring but since we already have a ball dominant scorer, it become a bit of duplication (which is all over this roster) and there are too many weaknesses left over.

This is what I have been saying as well. CJ is the most tradable, and Crabbe can slide into his spot and we don't lose much. I would go so far as to sat that that is why we matched Crabbe; that's the plan.

 

[magnifier661]

Man, wtf happened here?! Sky is falling brigade is on showcase

 

[Drttimmy]

It becomes clearer to me by the day that CJ is a stud who needs his own team to realize his potential, and we need a massive upgrade in the front court if we have any hope of maximizing Lillard's window.

Philly seems more likely because of the different conference. You put CJ next to Ben Simmons and Embiid, and holy shit that team is scary. He's the perfect perimeter compliment, offering scoring, maturity and a franchise face that's not associated with all the losing. We take two of the following: Okafor, Nerlens, their upcoming draft pick.

A few years ago...maybe more than a few...the Washington Bullets collected a nice pool of big men from years of drafting in the lottery. They were heavy in front court talent, short in the back court. We dangled a top 5 talent point guard and it was enough to secure one of those big men. For all his warts, the Sheed acquistion was pivotal to pushing us back into relevance and not long after, two straight WCF appearances. A Portland/Philly swap makes a lot of sense for both sides, similar to the Portland/Washington swap from a few years ago. It's been thrown around since this time last year, and I was very reluctant to part with CJ then. I think I'm ready now. Love the player, but the best trades are often the ones you feel initially bad about. I think its time and makes a lot of sense.

 

[Sarni]

A few years ago...maybe more than a few...the Washington Bullets collected a nice pool of big men from years of drafting in the lottery. They were heavy in front court talent, short in the back court. We dangled a top 5 talent point guard and it was enough to secure one of those big men. For all his warts, the Sheed acquistion was pivotal to pushing us back into relevance and not long after, two straight WCF appearances. A Portland/Philly swap makes a lot of sense for both sides, similar to the Portland/Washington swap from a few years ago. It's been thrown around since this time last year, and I was very reluctant to part with CJ then. I think I'm ready now. Love the player, but the best trades are often the ones you feel initially bad about. I think its time and makes a lot of sense.

We don't trade CJ for any of Philly's bigs, that is just mental. The ones they will be willing to trade (Okafor and Noel) are not worth anywhere near as much, unless Philadelphia include also their pick in the next draft (and only do this when they already look like they are dead bottom so the pick is likely a top 5 pick, not now) which will be stacked with backcourt talent. Then you may end up with Okafor plus someone like Fultz or Jackson who will be a long term prospect.

Straight up CJ for Okafor/Noel swap would be absolutely mental from our side.

 

[jlprk]

A blue chip big for an inconsistent undersized SG who doesn't see the court when he puts his head down. Why is that mental. Unless you mean that he'll dump us.

 

[Sarni]

A blue chip big for an inconsistent undersized SG who doesn't see the court when he puts his head down. Why is that mental. Unless you mean that he'll dump us.

Because CJ's stock is much higher than Okafor or Noel. Okafor's defensive game is poor and they couldn't even get Brooklyn's pick in a poor draft because Boston would rather take a project like Jaylen Brown than give it to them, and Noel has zero offense and will leave at the end of season anyway because Philly will not extend him. On the other hand CJ is our second scorer, one of the best shooting guards in the league and has star potential (he's basically already a star).

I can't believe what a couple of below par games can do to people's perception. I swear some think CJ is some mid-tier average player. I will say it again, he is one of the best shooting guards in the league, he is one of the best shooters in the league and with shortage of good 2s, his value is extremely high. To dump him for Okafor or Noel would be borderline mental and a terrible, terrible move. I would maybe trade him for Embiid because I reckon Embiid is going to be absolutely immense if he can stay injury free.

Crabbe for Noel or Okafor would be about fair.

 

[Sinobas]

A couple things on this. If Allen Crabbe was valuable enough for Olshey to match the contract that was given to him by NJ. He's valuable enough to make CJ expendable in a trade that would bring in a better player.

Surely with the amount of money spent on the free agents we should been able to expect a legit third scorer out one of them. We didn't even get that.

You can take Allan Crabbes, Meyers Leonard and Evan Turners contracts and come up enough salary to bring in a DMC. There isn't one sane GM that is going to justify adding over 35 million to cap for those players. Unless he has a wish to commit career suicide.

Hmm, not sure what you're saying. Just because a GM was stupid enough to give a guy a contract doesn't mean that player is worth it. Crabbe would be a huge downgrade from CJ. You're last sentence seems to imply that Neil Olshey committed career suicide, because he actually spent 44 million in cap space on those players.

 

[HailBlazers]

Man, wtf happened here?! Sky is falling brigade is on showcase

MAGS! Make this forum great again!!

 

[magnifier661]

MAGS! Make this forum great again!!

Lol!

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Actually, the Pistons were about to win titles with Dantley, and replacing him temporarily slowed their progress the first year they had Aguirre. To make your point better, you should answer the following questions.



That's for the 2-man lineup, right? What's the ppp for 5-man lineups with those 2 players? What's the point difference for the same 5-man lineups?

That's a good question.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

You can take Allan Crabbes, Meyers Leonard and Evan Turners contracts and come up enough salary to bring in a DMC. There isn't one sane GM that is going to justify adding over 35 million to cap for those players. Unless he has a wish to commit career suicide.

But what if Vonleh was added to that trade and Portland also took back Afflalo and Koufos? That would save SAC about $4 million. Would make them quite a bit younger.