Fair comparison?

[Fez Hammersticks]

Charles Barkley nailed it on the head, IMO, Greg just isn't a good offensive player and doesn't look like he'll ever be that go-to-scorer. Rebound and defend is what he'll be good at. He could be that anchor on defense much like, though, not nearly as big as Greg, Ben Wallace.

 

[Deebag]

He'll defend and rebound like Ben Wallace. And while he won't be a dominating Shaq-like center, he'll be an above average scoring center that draws double teams. Ben Wallace was never really a threat. Oden is a rookie and averages 8 points. But whenever he's inside, he's instantly double/triple teamed.

17/14/3 are my predictions. Don't think he can average 20 with Roy and Aldridge in the lineup.

 

[hasoos]

Dead wrong. Flat out dead wrong.

I had to add this in. Do you remember when Travis Outlaw came into the league? He couldn't score if his life depended on it. Greg Oden has got 7 to 10 point in games without even having any plays ran for him. He isn't a Michael Olowakandi who played for the mighty (sarcasm) University of Pacific or whatever it was, he was Greg Oden. Feared offensive player. A guy who shot all of his free throws left handed for a year and hit a high majority of them. So, looking back at what some assistant coaches have been able to do with some of our younger players, and how bad they truly were, I think we have a few years of Bill Bayno beating on Greg Oden with Pads before that comes about.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah... well it's hard to say that when our team hardly ever runs plays for Greg.

 

[ehizzy3]

sorta. but greg already commands double teams, i dont remember ben ever being a threat like that.

 

[mgb]

I disagree. I think he'll be a good scorer. He has different moves/shots, they just haven't been dropping a lot or have we went to him a lot. He hasn't been ask to pickup part of the scoring load right now because I don't think Nate wants him to worry about that yet, but down the road, just watch, he'll be a scorer too.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think this summer is going to be really big for Greg's development; being able to focus exclusively on his post moves and jump hook with an NBA position coach instead of doing nothing but rehab of an injured limb could really make a difference in the kind of player he starts to develop into.

Whatever the case, in a couple of years if he ends up averaging 12 to 14 points per game, 12-13 boards and 2.5 blocks per game I'd be happy with that. If he does more than that then even better.

 

[hasoos]

If you also consider the fact that if you watch the games, you will see 5 to 10 times a game the guards flat out miss making the pass to Oden when he is wide open, the problem is more theirs then his.

 

[Денг Гордон]

This is a comparison I've been thinking for Oden for awhile. Although Greg should be better offensively.

I think Ben Wallace gets a lot of unfair criticism on the offensive end. Yes, he sucks, but it really isn't his fault. He has a great arsenal of post moves, he just can't finish. Early in his career, he had a surgery go wrong in his hand. So when he's out there on the court, his main hand just goes numb. So he can't feel his hand. This is why he seemingly has no touch around the basket, and can't shoot free throws worth a damn.

 

[Sug]

If he is not a good offensive player, why is he always getting doubled?

Barkley was a great player, but there is a reason he is not a coach.

 

[Drttimmy]

keep underestimating him. make him bitter and angry. please. once the league decides it wants to make him a star, he'll stay on the court and get his 20/15 games. Barkley went to the Finals with a soft, jump shooting team. Does he have any room to talk?

 

[Денг Гордон]

If he is not a good offensive player, why is he always getting doubled?

Barkley was a great player, but there is a reason he is not a coach.

Joakim Noah gets doubled almost any game. It's standard fare in the NBA to double team big men.

 

[Natebishop3]

Joakim Noah gets doubled almost any game. It's standard fare in the NBA to double team big men.

.... Joakim Noah?

 

[BengalDuck]

Oden is 7'. Ben Wallace is, what, 6'9? Oden will automatically be a better offensive player because he'll be able to easily dunk while Wallace needed to use glass to score more often.

And, Oden can still develop an effective game.

Oh, and Wallace never averaged double figure points per game. Oden's current PPG surpasses Wallace's career numbers.

 

[Jayps15]

Ben Wallace has never drawn as many fouls/double teams as a rookie Oden, considering how much the refs shaft Greg his ability to draw fouls/FTs is impressive and points to a pretty succesful scoring game. He's never gonna be knocking down pull up J's, and his post game will probably always be more based on strength instead of polished moves, but the best scorers in the league get it done by getting to the FT line consistently. And going into tonight Greg leads the NBA in offensive rebound rate, his prowess on the offensive glass alone will help him score on putbacks.

Combine a few putbacks, a bunch of trips to the line, and scoring off of nice dishes from our guards and he won't have to create his own scoring to put up at least decent (IE better than Wallace) scoring numbers at a very high efficiency.

 

[Денг Гордон]

.... Joakim Noah?

It's an effective strategy actually. Noah has been playing better as of late and his scoring efficiency is actually great on the season. But it's one of the things that pisses me off so much, with both Noah, Thomas, and even Brad Miller. They all get the ball, get double teamed, and still try to score when they have Ben Gordon standing wide open in the corner. They just go and try to score. They're getting better at this scoring part, but the Ben Gordon three is a much higher percentage shot....and counts for three.

They get doubled knowing that these guys aren't going to pass the ball to make them pay. It's something I've began noticing, among some of the non-great teams in the league, as quite a bit of a common occurrence.

 

[andalusian]

Didn't Barkley have to kiss Kenny's ass about Yao? He has no clue about centers - and as we have seen with his "no go-to guy" quote - no clue about shooting guards as well.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Watching Oden tonight against Lopez, I have to agree with Barkley. Despite being taller and stronger, Oden seemed frustrated by a quick, agressive defender.

The "he had surgery!" excuse is reaching the end of its' shelf life. Oden may still turn into a good defender/rebounder - but the mobile, explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory.

 

[cdub503]

It's an effective strategy actually. Noah has been playing better as of late and his scoring efficiency is actually great on the season. But it's one of the things that pisses me off so much, with both Noah, Thomas, and even Brad Miller. They all get the ball, get double teamed, and still try to score when they have Ben Gordon standing wide open in the corner. They just go and try to score. They're getting better at this scoring part, but the Ben Gordon three is a much higher percentage shot....and counts for three.

They get doubled knowing that these guys aren't going to pass the ball to make them pay. It's something I've began noticing, among some of the non-great teams in the league, as quite a bit of a common occurrence.

what is great about oden is that he knows how to pass out of double teams rather well! as we have already seen shit he gets a lot of hockey assists already

 

[Tince]

I think Greg is going to be way better on offense than Ben Wallace.

However, I'm surprise at the people who are on this, "we need to run plays for Greg" train. Lets be honest here. Greg only demands double teams when he is significantly bigger than the person defending him. In those cases, lets dump the ball into him. When he's going up against most starting centers, teams are playing him straight up and he hasn't proven he can score on a regular basis. I fully expect him to develop, but he clearly isn't ready to have plays run for him now. Every play you run for Greg is a play you're not running for Roy, LMA, Rudy, Travis, etc. All those guys are going to give us a much better chance to score.

Also, it's not like we never run plays for Greg, we just don't run a lot of them. I noticed two screen across plays tonight that sent GO to the ball-side block and both time Roy saw him and decided to not give it to him. I'm guessing I'm seeing the same thing Nate and Roy see; Greg is not a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd option at this point. He is a great rebounder, he demands for centers to keep a body on him at all time (preventing them from helping), and he cleans up the offensive boards very well. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Miksaid]

I disagree completely. From what I have seen, Greg is too strong and powerful not to be a factor on offense. He has near-zero offensive game right now, but with his ability to rebound on the offensive glass and draw fouls (all solely because of his size), he gets 10 points easily. If he learned but just ONE offensive go-to move, it would add an entirely new dimension to his game (and the Blazer offense). The game we played against Boston without Brandon Roy is a good example of this. This is exactly what the offseason is for. You can't pick up offensive post-moves "on the fly" of an 82 game season. The 82 game season is used to refine the tools you have at your disposal. Offensively, Oden has nothing. Bynum had similar trouble early in his career and seeing as to how he was able to put it all together before he went down this season, I don't see why Oden can't do the same, or at least something similar. Granted, Oden is not the same as Bynum, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he can refine an offensive game out of the zero offense he has going for him currently. He has all the tools.

 

[Minstrel]

If he is not a good offensive player, why is he always getting doubled?

Barkley was a great player, but there is a reason he is not a coach.

This is exactly right. Oden's as bad as he'll ever be on offense and he's already drawing double-teams. Double-teams are very bad for a defense, so coaches don't employ them for no reason. I'll take the de facto voting of opposing coaches that Oden is already a major scoring threat over Barkley's pronouncements. Barkley isn't a serious analyst, he's an entertainer. He makes extreme claims because those are more entertaining than moderate ones.

I think Oden in his prime will be a 20 PPG scorer. On a team with no other big scoring threats, he could push it up to 25 PPG. He'll add excellent defense and rebounding. A more powerful version of Tim Duncan.

 

[Minstrel]

Joakim Noah gets doubled almost any game.

No, he doesn't. I know you like to make things up to support the things you want to be true, but that's simply ridiculous.

It's standard fare in the NBA to double team big men.

Also absurd. Double-teams in the post put the defense at a huge disadvantage. Coaches do it only when the big man is a major scoring threat that puts the defense at an even bigger disadvantage if played man-up.

 

[Tince]

Greg doesn't get double teamed all that much anymore. He does against the likes of the Knicks, Golden State, or any small team. You didn't see Shaq or Dalembert calling for double teams the last two games.

I do agree that it is crazy to double teaming doesn't matter or is standard in the NBA. Coaches only want to do that as a last result, but you don't just double team Joel because that's what you do. We hardly doubled Shaq tonight...

 

[TripTango]

Hey, how about we let the guy have at least his full rookie year to figure things out before we decide what he can and can't do? Anyone remember how bad Durant looked last season?

 

[Minstrel]

Greg doesn't get double teamed all that much anymore. He does against the likes of the Knicks, Golden State, or any small team. You didn't see Shaq or Dalembert calling for double teams the last two games.

And Oden had a very strong game against Dalembert. Shaq is a unique case, because he's actually big enough to handle Oden without a double-team. Almost no other center in the league is. Many teams already double-team him and almost all of them will as Oden refines his post moves. When Lopez was on Oden, double-teams came. When they didn't, Lopez got tossed around.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Greg doesn't get double teamed all that much anymore. He does against the likes of the Knicks, Golden State, or any small team. You didn't see Shaq or Dalembert calling for double teams the last two games.

I do agree that it is crazy to double teaming doesn't matter or is standard in the NBA. Coaches only want to do that as a last result, but you don't just double team Joel because that's what you do. We hardly doubled Shaq tonight...

It's not always used as a last result. It's often just to force the ball out of a guys hands quick. It's especially effective against front courts that don't have big men who are good at passing out of the post, like Thomas and Noah for the Bulls. If you leave the ball in Thomas' hands in single coverage (and you don't have Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, etc. guarding him) while he might now score, there is a good chance he will draw a foul. It's simply to frustrate these guys and get the ball out of these hands quick. The other teams know that there is a high chance that Noah/Thomas won't be passing out of the post. Why not double team if you know you're not going to be punished for it? That's the strategy coaches have been putting into effect all year.

You won't see happening against good teams, because good teams know how to pass out of the post. You aren't a good team in the NBA if you can't pass out of the post.

 

[Sinobas]

Greg Oden will be productive on the offensive end. He's not a Chris Dudley or Ben Wallace type on offense.

He just has to get that baby hook down and learn techniques for scoring around the rim and not getting stripped. He may even get a little jumper down like Kevin Duckworth had.

Why are people judging him so soon? He's a young rookie, and his numbers are comparible to Dwight Howard as a rookie.

 

[Tince]

Hey, how about we let the guy have at least his full rookie year to figure things out before we decide what he can and can't do? Anyone remember how bad Durant looked last season?

I remember how bad he looked last year...

Kevin Durant Named 2008 Rooke Of The Year

 

[Tince]

It's not always used as a last result. It's often just to force the ball out of a guys hands quick. It's especially effective against front courts that don't have big men who are good at passing out of the post, like Thomas and Noah for the Bulls. If you leave the ball in Thomas' hands in single coverage (and you don't have Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, etc. guarding him) while he might now score, there is a good chance he will draw a foul. It's simply to frustrate these guys and get the ball out of these hands quick. The other teams know that there is a high chance that Noah/Thomas won't be passing out of the post. Why not double team if you know you're not going to be punished for it? That's the strategy coaches have been putting into effect all year.

You won't see happening against good teams, because good teams know how to pass out of the post. You aren't a good team in the NBA if you can't pass out of the post.

And Greg is an above average passer for a center (especially being a rookie) and has limited to no offensive moves, and that's why teams double team him less and less.