Fair comparison?

[LameR]

Fez, it's almost as if you want him to fail. I think he's already comparable to Wallace.

 

[Ed O]

Oden gets to the line and draws double teams. As a 21 year-old rookie. Coming off of a major knee surgery and a couple of pesky minor injuries.

I think it's silly to write off his career offensively and/or to relegate him to Ben Wallace offensive ineptitude status.

Oden already makes a difference at the offensive end in spite of his limitations due to lack of experience. As he gets more comfortable and things "slow down" for him, I expect him to be a dominant player at both ends of the floor. That might happen as soon as next season at the age of 21/22.

Ed O.

 

[PHXBlazer1]

Way too soon to make the claims that Barkley made. Whenever Oden catches the ball within 5 ft of the hoop, more often than not he scores, gets fouled or both. And the types of fouls that the other team commits tell me all I need to know. They're not incidental. They're the types of fouls that are basically saying "I give up". They know that it's less likely that Oden will score 2 points at the freethrow line than the other option, he dunks in their face. I'm still not convinced that Oden can stay healthy, but I also feel that's the only thing preventing him from being dominant on both ends. If he has an offseason to work on that little hook shot that is unguardable, he could easily average 20 a game. If he were playing 30 minutes a game this year he would probably average 12-15 pts. and that's with hardly any plays run for him. The dude is a force.

 

[crandc]

No way is he another Chris Dudley - and I loved Duds.

Greg may not be a dominating scorer like Hakeem or Shaq. I don't think he will be the focus of the Blazers offense; it's going to continue to go through Roy. But I can easily see him being a regular 15 ppg or so player, with occasional 25 point explosions, with rebounds, defense, and blocks, and as others have said, a good passer.

And that's a conservative estimate. If Oden surprises me it will be because he's better than that, not worse.

 

[Masbee]

Charles may or may not have mentioned Ben Wallace, but if he did he meant that Oden would dominate with his rebounding and defense like Wallace did.

Who can disagree with that?

I too, think Oden has a chance to be a dominating rebounder and DPOY.

What Charles said about Oden and his offense was:

"Oden is not good at offense".

This is true. He isn't. What will he become in the future? Nobody yet knows. Charles' guess:

"I don't think Oden will ever be a great offensive player."

Notice "great". He didn't say he wouldn't score points, or that he would be as inept as Ben Wallace. I took it to mean he wouldn't be the scoring force that Shaq was - or for that matter Ewing.

 

[illmatic99]

The point is, no matter how unbelievably uncomfortable he looks on the offensive end right now, he's still producing some great per minute numbers. If a guy who doesn't have any plays runs for him and has no go-to offensive moves to speak of is still putting up 8-10 pts in 15-20mpg, what's to say he can't double that output with more PT?

Obviously, I expected more from GO this season, but the fact remains that he is incredibly effective (on both ends) when he's not in foul trouble. And you can't think that he'll remain so foul prone throughout his career.

 

[RoyToy]

Greg Oden is much more powerful than Ben Wallace. Oden can back his way to the basket. He just has to work on his turn around post move shot, which actually looks pretty decent. I also still don't think he is in prime shape or has his full athleticism back, and once he gets those, it will make him that much better.

14/10/2 Will be Greg's numbers next year barring another setback. Write it down.

If Oden doesn't have seasons of 20ppg it will be because of the team he is on, not his own individual talent.

 

[Hoobuddha]

Do you all remember when Shaq came into the league at age 20? All he could do was run people over and dunk and brick free throws. He still averaged 20 points but it wasn't pretty. The first time I saw him hit a little fadeaway bank shot from 5 feet in the preseason of his second or third year I thought, "well, the game is changing in the NBA for the next 10 years or so." Oden's little jump hook last night is more offensive game than Shaq had early on. Give him a chance to learn how to play with grown-ups.

 

[STOMP]

Watching Oden tonight against Lopez, I have to agree with Barkley. Despite being taller and stronger, Oden seemed frustrated by a quick, agressive defender.

for whatever reason Robin didn't go to the pre-draft so we don't have his measurements, but his identical twin measured out taller & longer then Greg... and he came in all of 1 pound lighter.

I'm not sure how you came away with the impression you did as Robin kept sending Greg to the line.

The "he had surgery!" excuse is reaching the end of its' shelf life. Oden may still turn into a good defender/rebounder - but the mobile, explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory.

right... we saw no explosiveness last night especially on those spectacular blocks

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

This is true. He isn't. What will he become in the future? Nobody yet knows. Charles' guess

Barkley didn't frame it as a guess. He said "People thought he would be able to score a lot on offense. People need to accept that that's never going to happen. He's going to have to do it with defense and rebounding."

It's possible Oden won't be "great" on offense, but the idea that Oden has conclusively proven that he never will be, as Barkley suggested, is quite wrong.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Fez, it's almost as if you want him to fail. I think he's already comparable to Wallace.

Uh, no. Do you remember how good Wallace was with Detroit? He changed games with his defense. I think Oden will be that player - only 4 inches taller.

He'll be a better offensive player than Ben Wallace but he doesn't have that go-to ability. I think a better offensive Ben Wallace is viable comparison.

 

[MrJayremmie]

A bigger Ben Wallace with better offense at 21 years old = epic win, imo.

 

[Ed O]

What Charles said about Oden and his offense was:

"Oden is not good at offense".

This is true. He isn't.

I don't agree with this.

He IS a good offensive player. He creates a lot of extra shots with his rebounding at that end, he scores well on the blocks (shooting 57% from the floor). He forces double teams. He draws fouls on opposing big guys and get to the free throw line.

Is his game refined? Definitely not.

Is he a good offensive player? I would say that he is in spite of his lack of refinement.

Ed O.

 

[DaRizzle]

Oden will get his points cause of his size. His "touch" (if u can call it that) around the rim is atrocious....as in ugly for even a rookie

He is not a good offensive player. IMO you actually have to have some moves and good shooting technique...He doesnt really have either, hes just good at putbacks and dunks.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Yep, you are correct Da Rizzle... he doesn't have a very good touch around the basket, but he is getting better and better as the season goes on and is a 10ppg scorer now in his limited play (around 20mpg)... and this is the worst he is going to be... so he will be fine, imo.

Without any "touch" or offensive moves, he is gettin' his points from alley oops, drop off dunks and putbacks... which tells you that once his athleticism comes back, and once he devleops his Off. game (which he will) I think he can eventually be around a 20ppg scorer. That may be the homer in me though.

 

[Ed O]

Oden will get his points cause of his size. His "touch" (if u can call it that) around the rim is atrocious....as in ugly for even a rookie

He is not a good offensive player. IMO you actually have to have some moves and good shooting technique...He doesnt really have either, hes just good at putbacks and dunks.

IMO you need to score efficiently and regularly to be a good offensive player. Whether you look good doing it or not isn't relevant.

He scores efficiently and at a pretty regular pace, if you account for foul trouble limitations...

That's a good offensive player to me.

Ed O.

 

[Masbee]

I don't agree with this.

He IS a good offensive player. He creates a lot of extra shots with his rebounding at that end, he scores well on the blocks (shooting 57% from the floor). He forces double teams. He draws fouls on opposing big guys and get to the free throw line.

Is his game refined? Definitely not.

Is he a good offensive player? I would say that he is in spite of his lack of refinement.

Ed O.

I don't consider that good offense.

That is finding ways to scrap and fight and manufacture some points. Just by spending so much time in the paint, pretty much any NBA caliber player will get points. That is not the same thing as what a team needs from a primary offensive option where the player can be counted on to be a part of set plays.

We run a few plays for Oden, but it is often fairly ugly. Sometimes he makes the play or draws the foul or draws the double and makes a good pass. Somethings he throws up a very ugly shot, commits an offensive foul or gets stripped. There is no consistency. The team can't count on his offense or build around it. That is not good. I expect his game to improve. How much it will improve is the current (and valid) debate.

Despite the numbers and factors you mention, there are lots of bigs in the NBA that can do many of those things in limited minutes. Doesn't make them "good" offensive players either.

To be a good offensive player Oden needs to improve his footwork so he has more options when he gets those many offensive rebounds, he needs to learn to keep his hands up so he doesn't get stripped so often, he needs to develop a couple of (non-dunk) go-to moves that he can finish at a high percentage, improve his free throw shooting, etc.

 

[alex42083]

Do you all remember when Shaq came into the league at age 20? All he could do was run people over and dunk and brick free throws. He still averaged 20 points but it wasn't pretty. The first time I saw him hit a little fadeaway bank shot from 5 feet in the preseason of his second or third year I thought, "well, the game is changing in the NBA for the next 10 years or so." Oden's little jump hook last night is more offensive game than Shaq had early on. Give him a chance to learn how to play with grown-ups.

I was going to say something similar to that. Shaq was all dunks his first few seasons, and barely made anything outside of 5 feet.
It's wayyyy too premature to say that Greg isn't going to be a force offensively. He's just raw in his postup game, and I have no doubts that if he's willing to put in the work, by the time he's 25-26, he's going to be a big bad monster.

 

[DaRizzle]

To be a good offensive player Oden needs to improve his footwork so he has more options when he gets those many offensive rebounds, he needs to learn to keep his hands up so he doesn't get stripped so often, he needs to develop a couple of (non-dunk) go-to moves that he can finish at a high percentage, improve his free throw shooting, etc.

Ding ding ding...I dont consider dunks or put backs part of an offensive game. ANYBODY can get putbacks and dunks, Greg does it more than most due to his size and strength. College centers can grab a rebound and dunk it. Thats just having the heart to play hard a help your team, not a good offensive player.

Like you said, he needs some moves, and some touch. I think he will try to develop a move or two this offseason which should also help his touch. It just looks like he is making up shit as he goes right now when it come to making a move on the offensive end when he has the ball in the post. Getting comfortable with the footwork will help him focus more on the shot.

 

[e_blazer]

I'd think that a Laker fan like DaRizzle would recognize the fact that centers do get considerably better on the offensive end as they gain experience. Looking at Bynum's progress, I see no reason to think that Greg doesn't have as much or more potential to be a scoring center than Bynum does. Let's see how they compare:

Bynum's first year in the league, he played in 46 games, but he only averaged 7.6 minutes per game. He put up a paltry 1.6 ppg and 1.7 rpg.
Oden's first year in the league never got off the ground due to a knee injury and microfracture surgery.

Bynum's second year in the league, he played all 82 games, started 53 of them, and averaged 21.9 minutes per game. His output increased to 7.8 ppg and 5.9 rpg.
This season, Oden's first year of actually playing and coming back from microfracture surgery, he's played in 51 games and is averaging 22.1 minutes per game. He's putting up 8.7 ppg and 7.1 boards. That's significantly better than Bynum's second year despite Oden having the disadvantage of missing a full year of playing the season before and being on recovery from major knee surgery.

In Bynum's 3rd and 4th seasons, he made major progress in his scoring efficiency, increasing to 13.1 and 14 ppg, respectively. His rebounding went up dramatically to 10.2 rpg his 3rd year, but dropped a bit to 8.2 rpg his 4th year...perhaps due to his own recovery from knee surgery.

Oden's had zero off-seasons and training camps to work on his game.

Anybody making an assessment as to his future as a scoring center in this league just based on what we've seen so far this season is, IMO, being very premature in doing so.

 

[mgb]

I don't agree about his 'touch'. When he puts up his little hook/jumpers he does it with touch in my opinion. I'm talking about the shot itself. He is often short, but I think that'll just take time to be consistent, but it's not like he fires the ball at the basket, he does it with finese. That leads me to believe he'll be a good offensive player.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't know if Oden is currently a "good" offensive player or not. He's efficient, but not prolific. He's not a consistent go-to guy (sometimes he's valuable to dump the ball to and let work, but not always), but I'd say consistent go-to guys are "great."

IMO, Oden is a valuable offensive asset. He makes the Blazers a tougher offensive team because he draws more of the defense and opens up better looks for teammates. He's always a threat to turn a missed shot into another scoring opportunity or dunk. He draws free throws. And, in addition, he scores some points on high efficiency.

Is that a good offensive player? Depends on how you define "good," but he's already valuable to the team offense and this is the worst he'll ever be.

 

[DaRizzle]

I don't agree about his 'touch'. When he puts up his little hook/jumpers he does it with touch in my opinion. I'm talking about the shot itself. He is often short, but I think that'll just take time to be consistent, but it's not like he fires the ball at the basket, he does it with finese. That leads me to believe he'll be a good offensive player.

When Ive watched it looks like he might crack the backboard cause the ball is hitting it so hard. He need some arc on his shot, WAAAY too flat. He might have gotten so used to being able to shoot over people whenever he wants that his shot just got flatter and flatter

 

[Minstrel]

Ding ding ding...I dont consider dunks or put backs part of an offensive game. ANYBODY can get putbacks and dunks, Greg does it more than most due to his size and strength.

That's not remotely true, that anyone can get offensive rebounds and convert them into put-backs and dunks. It takes a lot of ability to do that consistently at the NBA level.

College centers can grab a rebound and dunk it.

Yes...they do that in college. If they do it regularly at the NBA level, that's impressive.

Also, the idea that Oden has no offensive game is ridiculous. He has a very inconsistent offensive game, largely because he's generally too rushed. When he works methodically, he's very good at backing down his opponent and spinning past or dunking over. He's also shown very good passing skills, for his position. He's raw and needs a lot of work to become consistent, but he definitely has an effective post-up game. He just has to refine it.

 

[alex42083]

Ding ding ding...I dont consider dunks or put backs part of an offensive game. ANYBODY can get putbacks and dunks, Greg does it more than most due to his size and strength. College centers can grab a rebound and dunk it. Thats just having the heart to play hard a help your team, not a good offensive player.

Obviously you haven't seen Dale Davis or Jamaal Magloire play. Those guys routinely got offensive boards but continually got stripped or got their shot blocked.
Even Greg earlier this season got stripped or blocked a lot when he got offensive boards and tried to put them back. It's an offensive skill to have to be able to avoid guards slapping you on the wrists down low and then avoiding big guys blocking your shots.
It's part of a difference between very skilled big men and medicore 7-footers.

 

[DaRizzle]

Well you and me have different opinions of what a good offensive player is then. Im in no way doubting Odens ability to bang down low and get rebounds and putbacks...just his ability to manufacture something himself.

Give Oden the ball down low on an ISO and chances are it wont be pretty...even if the ball goes in.

If you cant manufacture points consistentlywith the ball already in your hands then you are not a good offensive player

 

[mgb]

When Ive watched it looks like he might crack the backboard cause the ball is hitting it so hard. He need some arc on his shot, WAAAY too flat. He might have gotten so used to being able to shoot over people whenever he wants that his shot just got flatter and flatter

Majority of the times when he put a shot like that up is when someone is fouling him and he puts a really awkward shot up, but his little hooks have been soft shots not hard shots. Though he could use a little more arc, I agree.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Well you and me have different opinions of what a good offensive player is then. Im in no way doubting Odens ability to bang down low and get rebounds and putbacks...just his ability to manufacture something himself.

Give Oden the ball down low on an ISO and chances are it wont be pretty...even if the ball goes in.

If you cant manufacture points consistentlywith the ball already in your hands then you are not a good offensive player

I hate to say it, but L*ker boy is right this time.

Oden reminds me of Mutombo. His best season was 16 1/2 PPG, but that was on a team that sucked mud. (it was also the only season during his prime that he shot under 50%) The rest of his prime, he averaged 11-13 PPG, had far fewer FG attempts, and was a major contributor on some good teams.

If Oden manages to stay healthy and become another Mutombo - is that really such a bad thing? If he dominates on defense and on the boards, we have other people who can score. At this point, I would be happy to have him average 12/12 *and stay healthy* for 82 games!

 

[ehizzy3]

greg had a pretty good baby hook in college. i wish he still had it right now but i dont doubt he will develop it back.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm telling you.... put a point guard on this team who can actually get Oden the ball when he's open and you would see Greg's scoring improve by 10 points per game. Easily. One of my biggest pet peeves about this team is its inability to find Greg when he's open. It has been a problem all year, and I'm tired of it.