Fair comparison?

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oldmangrouch said:
The "he had surgery!" excuse is reaching the end of its' shelf life. Oden may still turn into a good defender/rebounder - but the mobile, explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory.
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This just doesn't even make any sense.

The "explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory", but we can't blame the surgery and injuries? If not the surgery, then what is it? Is he too old now, at 21, to be explosive? Did the athletic-fairy come and take away his athleticism and explosiveness? Did he start wearing 20lb shoes?

:crazy:
 
Oden is a good offensive player. He sets great picks and screens. He forces opposing centers to guard him closely, opening the lane for the drive. He's a really good passer for a center at his age. Anything close to the rim is an almost guaranteed dunk. He's a fantastic offensive rebounder. All that stuff happens on the offensive end.

The thing that keeps him from being a great offensive player is his lack of moves, his lack of shooting touch, and his lack of minutes (due to fouls/injury).
 
oldmangrouch said:
Watching Oden tonight against Lopez, I have to agree with Barkley. Despite being taller and stronger, Oden seemed frustrated by a quick, agressive defender.

The "he had surgery!" excuse is reaching the end of its' shelf life. Oden may still turn into a good defender/rebounder - but the mobile, explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory.
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What part of- it's not until the second season back from microfracture surgery- don't you understand? this is season is year one back. He's not supposed to regain athleticism until year two. Only Stoudamire was good in his first year back.

no wonder you are a self identified grouch...
 
blazerboy30 said:
This just doesn't even make any sense.

The "explosive kid we saw in college is just a memory", but we can't blame the surgery and injuries? If not the surgery, then what is it? Is he too old now, at 21, to be explosive? Did the athletic-fairy come and take away his athleticism and explosiveness? Did he start wearing 20lb shoes?

:crazy:
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How much weight has Oden gained since Ohio State?

If it was blubber, you could blame a combination of surgery and laziness. That isn't the case. Oden isn't "fat" - but he has gone from Grayhound to St Bernard. From WR to defensive end.

And what does my being a :crazy: old coot have to do with anything? :devilwink:
 
anonymous gambler said:
What part of- it's not until the second season back from microfracture surgery- don't you understand? this is season is year one back. He's not supposed to regain athleticism until year two. Only Stoudamire was good in his first year back.

no wonder you are a self identified grouch...
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2 seasons = 164 games.

Oden since surgery = 154 games.

Even a self proclaimed grouch can count!:D
 
Oden surviving on putbacks and dunks is partially due to all the offensive weapons this team has... by default, Aldridge and Roy are going to have the most plays run for them. Greg doesn't need plays run for him to be an effective player on this squad.

I agree with 'Rizz about Greg's offensive versatility; he is not very creative with the ball in the post at this point. His shot is very flat. Again, I don't think that he needs to be creative as long as he is efficient, which he has been. His over 60% TS% speaks pretty loudly to that fact. Not only that, but Greg is in the top ten in the NBA for rebound rate. Taking those statistics into account, if Greg can stay healthy and improve his situation in regard to foul trouble, there is no reason to believe he couldn't easily raise his scoring average even with his current limited offensive repertoire.
 
yuyuza1 said:
The point is, no matter how unbelievably uncomfortable he looks on the offensive end right now, he's still producing some great per minute numbers. If a guy who doesn't have any plays runs for him and has no go-to offensive moves to speak of is still putting up 8-10 pts in 15-20mpg, what's to say he can't double that output with more PT?

Obviously, I expected more from GO this season, but the fact remains that he is incredibly effective (on both ends) when he's not in foul trouble. And you can't think that he'll remain so foul prone throughout his career.
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This is totally false. I prefer to assess Oden's still-emerging offensive game without resorting to blaming the coach, the guards, or wanting the coach fired. Fire Nate MacMillan because Oden isn't dominating on offense! :ohno:

I know you didn't post this, yuyuza, but it comes to mind because the poster who advocated that posted in this thread, and he too makes things up about how Oden is used.
 
mgb said:
I don't agree about his 'touch'. When he puts up his little hook/jumpers he does it with touch in my opinion. I'm talking about the shot itself. He is often short, but I think that'll just take time to be consistent, but it's not like he fires the ball at the basket, he does it with finese. That leads me to believe he'll be a good offensive player.
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He does it with "touch" as opposed to mentally moving the ball with his mind? Having an inside "touch" means that you can regularly put in those short range shots.
 
Seems like few will give him praise unless he scores 20 points. But he's already the #1 offensive rebounder in the league. And we've seen what a great shot blocker he can develop into (Joel with major hops).


He'll be a very productive offensive player as well. He can be sorta like Shaq-light...not as heavy, but more athletic. Shaq had it right off the bat, but remember that Shaq did go to three years of college. Compare this to Oden's 1 year, and 1 year of being hurt.
 
Sinobas said:
He does it with "touch" as opposed to mentally moving the ball with his mind? Having an inside "touch" means that you can regularly put in those short range shots.
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Not, touch means a nice soft touch, not just throwing it up and banging it off the rim/backboard. His shot isn't dropping right now, but making it regularly is called being consistent, not touch.
 
mgb said:
Not, touch means a nice soft touch, not just throwing it up and banging it off the rim/backboard. His shot isn't dropping right now, but making it regularly is called being consistent, not touch.
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He is banging it off the rim. And having touch means you can score inside. Some players just miss a lot of close inside shots, because they don't have the soft touch it takes to put them down consistently from close range. I remember Brian Grant used to miss quite a few shots inside. Even though his shot wasn't horrifically awkward, like Dudley or Vladamir Stephania.

Not that arguing about semantics is worthwhile, but you tried to correct another poster on his use of the word "touch" when you are in fact wrong. It's not limited to "banging it off the rim". If a player constantly rattles inside shots in and out, or off the top of the rim, you still say he doesn't have an inside touch.
 
Sinobas said:
He is banging it off the rim. And having touch means you can score inside. Some players just miss a lot of close inside shots, because they don't have the soft touch it takes to put them down consistently from close range. I remember Brian Grant used to miss quite a few shots inside. Even though his shot wasn't horrifically awkward, like Dudley or Vladamir Stephania.

Not that arguing about semantics is worthwhile, but you tried to correct another poster on his use of the word "touch" when you are in fact wrong. It's not limited to "banging it off the rim". If a player constantly rattles inside shots in and out, or off the top of the rim, you still say he doesn't have an inside touch.
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We're talking about if his shot has touch or not, that doesn't mean where he shoots it from or how often he makes it. I obvious disagree with the original poster about Oden having touch or not to his shot, you on the other hand or trying to change the definition of touch which is way out there compare to what touch means. You are confusing touch with consistently making a shot. If he suddenly makes it consistently does that change his touch? No, he just starts hitting it consistently.

Saying I'm wrong doesn't make it so. People are entitled to their opinion and yours is obviously flawed. :)

Quick edit, btw, his shot doesn't rattle around and bounce out, at least his hook/short jumper, it's usually soft but just short. That's nice soft shot with touch. Just the range is a little off. When it rattles and bounces out is usually when he's trying to dunk with a body hanging on him.
 
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I think we are are getting a little "touchy" here guys...which Oden doesnt have! OOOOOOO!!! :drumroll:
 
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