F'd up move by Israel

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maxiep said:
It's completely rational. Israel is held back from reacting more forcefully knowing the US has their back and will protect their interests. If the US stops protecting Israeli interests, Israel has a responsibility to protect those interests themselves.
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While they won't admit it Israel has developed nukes. That don't need us to defend or protect them.
 
barfo said:
Sure, and it is completely rational for the 6 year old to whine if he doesn't get the candy bar. What does he have to lose? His parents probably aren't going to ditch him no matter how badly he behaves.

barfo
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If a 6 year old doesn't get a candy bar, he'll live. If Iran is allowed to supply Gaza with uninspected cargo, Israel could find its landscape turned into glass.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
While they won't admit it Israel has developed nukes. That don't need us to defend or protect them.
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We gave them nukes back in the 60s. You're 100% right that Israel can defend itself. However, they have one arrow in the quiver if attacked by a numerically superior force. I don't think anyone wants them forced to make that choice. The Germans could have defended themselves too against the Soviets; South Korea could defend themselves against North Korea. We put them under our umbrella as a way of preventing a nuclear exchange.
 
maxiep said:
If a 6 year old doesn't get a candy bar, he'll live. If Iran is allowed to supply Gaza with uninspected cargo, Israel could find its landscape turned into glass.
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So you allow the ships to dock and inspect the cargo. How hard is that? Apparently they've successfully done it before.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
We gave them nukes back in the 60s. You're 100% right that Israel can defend itself. However, they have one arrow in the quiver if attacked by a numerically superior force.
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One arrow? You are forgetting all the other military technology we've gifted them with over the past several decades.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
If a 6 year old doesn't get a candy bar, he'll live. If Iran is allowed to supply Gaza with uninspected cargo, Israel could find its landscape turned into glass.
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That's a mighty big jump there without any evidence to support it.

It's funny the dividing lines in this thread. I guess I'm the only one who can be for the most part supportive of Israel but think what they did was fucked up. Israel has the right to inspect the cargo but they provoked a needless incident that caused people to be hurt and killed.
 
barfo said:
So you allow the ships to dock and inspect the cargo. How hard is that? Apparently they've successfully done it before.

barfo
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Exactly. So, why did they try to run the blockade?
 
maxiep said:
We gave them nukes back in the 60s. You're 100% right that Israel can defend itself. However, they have one arrow in the quiver if attacked by a numerically superior force. I don't think anyone wants them forced to make that choice. The Germans could have defended themselves too against the Soviets; South Korea could defend themselves against North Korea. We put them under our umbrella as a way of preventing a nuclear exchange.
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We didn't give them nukes, they developed them all on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_nuclear_program
 
barfo said:
One arrow? You are forgetting all the other military technology we've gifted them with over the past several decades.

barfo
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Israel is only 6MM people in a very small area. There are larger countries with sophisticated weapons surrounding them. If there's a risk of being overrun, the nuclear card may be the only one left to play.
 
maxiep said:
Exactly. So, why did they try to run the blockade?
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Why the blockade? Why not say, you can send aid only but we're going to inspect it.

Some of the people in Gaza are living under conditions similar to what the Jews experienced in the WWII work camps.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That's a mighty big jump there without any evidence to support it.
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It's well documented that Turkey and Iran are working together now and the new Islamist government in Turkey is taking a much more anti-Israeli stance. Why do you think they want to break the blockade? So they can ship in uninspected cargo, meaning more weapons, missles and other items disruptive to day-to-day life in Israel.

It's funny the dividing lines in this thread. I guess I'm the only one who can be for the most part supportive of Israel but think what they did was fucked up. Israel has the right to inspect the cargo but they provoked a needless incident that caused people to be hurt and killed.
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Yeah, you're just much better than the rest of us. At least two other posters have taken the same view, but you keep on putting yourself up on a pedestal.
 
maxiep said:
Exactly. So, why did they try to run the blockade?
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They didn't. At most, they threatened to.

But to answer your question - they threatened to run the blockade in hopes of provoking Israel into doing something stupid which would increase world sympathy for their point of view and reduce it for Israel's. Mission accomplished.

barfo
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
Why the blockade? Why not say, you can send aid only but we're going to inspect it.

Some of the people in Gaza are living under conditions similar to what the Jews experienced in the WWII work camps.
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Sly, that's what they're doing. The blockade is re-routing shipments that are meant to go directly to Gaza and rerouting it through Israel and Egypt so it can be inspected and then sent to Gaza. In fact, this very flotilla was directed to an Israeli port, but they refused. Perhaps before commenting further, you should read a bit more about the background about why the blockade exists in the first place.
 
maxiep said:
Sly, that's what they're doing. The blockade is re-routing shipments that are meant to go directly to Gaza and rerouting it through Israel and Egypt so it can be inspected and then sent to Gaza. In fact, this very flotilla was directed to an Israeli port, but they refused. Perhaps before commenting further, you should read a bit more about the background about why the blockade exists in the first place.
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I have read some on this, maybe you should stop being a dick and try to have a rational discussion while treating me with the respect that I'm showing you.
 
barfo said:
They didn't. At most, they threatened to.

barfo
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They were directed to an Israeli port and they refused. I'm no expert in blockades, but I know we encountered Soviet ships during the Cuban Missle Crisis before they crossed the blockade line. You're smarter than this silly line of argumentation. The intention was to provoke an incident.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
I have read some on this, maybe you should stop being a dick and try to have a rational discussion while treating me with the respect that I'm showing you.
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Unfortunately, your posts don't indicate you've read much at all. We are having a rational discussion, but you seem to be lacking basic information. Stop being so thin-skinned.
 
maxiep said:
They were directed to an Israeli port and they refused. I'm no expert in blockades, but I know we encountered Soviet ships during the Cuban Missle Crisis before they crossed the blockade line. You're smarter than this silly like of argumentation. The intention was to provoke an incident.
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Yes, of course. And Israel was stupid enough to provide them with an incident.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
Yeah, you're just much better than the rest of us. At least two other posters have taken the same view, but you keep on putting yourself up on a pedestal.
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maxiep said:
Perhaps before commenting further, you should read a bit more about the background about why the blockade exists in the first place.
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maxiep said:
Unfortunately, your posts don't indicate you've read much at all. We are having a rational discussion, but you seem to be lacking basic information. Stop being so thin-skinned.
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I don't think I am being thin-skinned. I felt you were being condescending and insulting while I don't think I've treated you that way at all.
 
maxiep said:
Re-read your posts.
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If that is really the way you feel I will say that was not my intention and that I am very sorry. I consider you one of my longest and smartest "internet forum friends". You were one of the first to be welcoming when I started posting on the Oregonlive Blazer forum. While I don't always agree with your opinions I've always respected you.
 
maxiep said:
An internationally recognized blockade on Gaza says differently.
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Yes, a few allies of Israel support the blockade. Most of the world either objects to it or has bigger fish to fry.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
If that is really the way you feel I will say that was not my intention and that I am very sorry. I consider you one of my longest and smartest "internet forum friends". You were one of the first to be welcoming when I started posting on the Oregonlive Blazer forum. While I don't always agree with your opinions I've always respected you.
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In re-reading my posts, my harshness was unintentional, but was there regardless. I'm the one who was out of line. Let's hug!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I don't think I am being thin-skinned. I felt you were being condescending and insulting while I don't think I've treated you that way at all.
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Just wait until he lists the numerous college degrees he has to show you why he is better than you. Then you'll really be put in your place.
 
maxiep said:
Or, more likely, you've never lived anywhere with a real Jewish community.
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I've never lived in Israel or NYC, but in Oregon L.O. is (or was) as Jewish as it gets. Are you saying there is a certain population density of Jews required in one's neighborhood before one can relate? Or WTF are you saying? In elementary school I had about 7 friends who I was very close to, and 3 of them were Jewish. I probably had many others who I didn't realize were Jewish. All 3 lived on Diamond Head Road if you know where that is.

How many Jewish friends do you have and what "community" did you live in besides LO? Lots of Jews in Denver I hear.
 
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MARIS61 said:
I've never lived in Israel of NYC, but in Oregon L.O. is (or was) as Jewish as it gets. Are you saying there is a certain population density of Jews required in one's neighborhood before one can relate? Or WTF are you saying? In elementary school I had about 7 friends who I was very close to, and 3 of them were Jewish. I probably had many others who I didn't realize were Jewish. All 3 lived on Diamond Head Road if you know where that is.

How many Jewish friends do you have and what "community" did you live in besides LO? Lots of Jews in Denver I hear.
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I once had sex with a Jewish girl while listening to the Beastie Boys, afterward we ate bagels.

(Okay the bagel part was a lie)
 
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MARIS61 said:
I've never lived in Israel or NYC, but in Oregon L.O. is (or was) as Jewish as it gets. Are you saying there is a certain population density of Jews required in one's neighborhood before one can relate? Or WTF are you saying? In elementary school I had about 7 friends who I was very close to, and 3 of them were Jewish. I probably had many others who I didn't realize were Jewish. All 3 lived on Diamond Head Road if you know where that is.

How many Jewish friends do you have and what "community" did you live in besides LO? Lots of Jews in Denver I hear.
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Counting Jewish friends? That seems an odd thing to do. All I'm saying is that if you think LO has a lot of Jews, you should travel more. As for where I've lived where there have been more than LO, how about LA (Pacific Palisades), NYC (Lower East Side) and Chicago (Hyde Park) for starters?
 
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