FINDING A PF: Number 1 offseason priority (3 Viewers)

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I am sorry, but I cannot seriously compare O'Quinn's reserve numbers to any starter. I mean compare these %s with Aldridge's (10,6% AST, 13,1% REB, lower TS% than O'Quinn etc) and someone may think they are kind of same level player while one is an All Star and the other a bench warmer. Yes he might be a bit better than these guys (which I don't believe, but I can accept it), but he belongs to their group, not a level above that.

But I didn't say O'Quinn would be starting, I said he'd be the perfect back up 4/5, something we desperately need. Why can't he continue that level of production as a back up here? He seems like the perfect fit next to Nurk as a back up 4 and perfect backing up Nurk at the 5. And, he's WAY cheaper than the other guys and available.

BNM
 
Personally, and I know I'm in the minority here, I'd rather look for a Harkless replacement in this draft (or via trade) than a PF of the Future. Mo is a below average starting SF and after five years and 8000 minutes of playing time, I see any future improvement as very marginal. He basically is who he is (or at least 95% of who he will become).

I think there are better options available at SF in this draft than at PF. Go after a solid veteran back up PF/C (Kyle O'Quinn) and use our top 1st round pick on the best wing available. Whoever we get won't likely be ready to start from day 1, but that's fine, we currently have all of Turner, Harkless and Aminu who can start at SF if need be. Start by letting the rookie grow into a cheaper Crabbe replacement, and hopefully eventually grow into an above average starting 3.

I think we REALLY need an above average 3 and D guy starting at SF. Turner is a little above average on D, but can't shoot a 3 to save his life. Harkless is basically slightly below average at everything. Aminu is the best defender of the bunch, but his 3-point shooting is too inconsistent and decision making too terrible to be counted on as a starter. Crabbe is a great 3-point shooter, but gives you NOTHING else, and easily the worst defender of the four guys who get minutes at SF. And then there's that contract. Crabbe needs to go and if his replacement can eventually grow into our SF of the Future, all the better.

BNM

I agree with most of this. Especially with Vonleh looking as good as any of the potential PF draft picks. I like Crabbe coming off the bench, and I think Neil was right to match. Not much downside because he can be moved. But yes his contract is too big for coming off the bench. There are some attractive wings in the draft and although I like Harkless, I agree we will eventually need an upgrade.
 
But I didn't say O'Quinn would be starting, I said he'd be the perfect back up 4/5, something we desperately need. Why can't he continue that level of production as a back up here? He seems like the perfect fit next to Nurk as a back up 4 and perfect backing up Nurk at the 5. And, he's WAY cheaper than the other guys and available.

BNM

Contractwise I'd prefer him yes, but I think Faried could do that too. He has played small ball 5 for the Nuggets and is a good finisher.
All in all I don't see O'Quinn doing anything more than what Ed Davis did last year. Maybe Davis gets this time off and the offseason to get back into shape and we already have him without giving up anything. Of course if it was to get rid of Leonard's contract then ok, but just to dump some salary. I don't see any other point in trading for O'Quinn.

In any case I'd prefer we work a deal for a starting calibre PF and we use Vonleh, Aminu and Davis to back him and Nurkic up. Or just trade Aminu too and get a rookie PF/C.
 
Just MO, but in looking for a PF "Motor" should be a top priority. Meyers and Noah both have all the physical abilities and basic talents needed to be very good, but are both low motor guys.
 
Contractwise I'd prefer him yes, but I think Faried could do that too. He has played small ball 5 for the Nuggets and is a good finisher.
All in all I don't see O'Quinn doing anything more than what Ed Davis did last year. Maybe Davis gets this time off and the offseason to get back into shape and we already have him without giving up anything. Of course if it was to get rid of Leonard's contract then ok, but just to dump some salary. I don't see any other point in trading for O'Quinn.

In any case I'd prefer we work a deal for a starting calibre PF and we use Vonleh, Aminu and Davis to back him and Nurkic up. Or just trade Aminu too and get a rookie PF/C.

I view O'Quinn as a combination of what Ed Davis brought us in 2015-16 and what a healthy Festus Ezeli was supposed to bring us in 2016-17. Davis is an undersized 5 and not nearly the rim protector O'Quinn is. O'Quinn gives us the elite rim protection we hoped Ezeli would provide, with the added bonus is he's cheaper and younger than both Davis and Ezeli.

Faried may play some small ball 5. Good for him. but he's not a true center and not an elite level rim protector. Not even close.

BNM
 
O'Quinn looked like crap last night outside of that one dunk. Largely unimpressive on both ends
 
O'Quinn looked like crap last night outside of that one dunk. Largely unimpressive on both ends

Yeah I wasnt impressed either and he looks bulky, meaning he could be quicker than most to lose a step and become too slow for our offence.
 
Vonleh is proving that he can be a very good defender - both on the block and the p&r.

He's almost like a Kurt Thomas type - very good post defense with no rim protection. In 67 games this season he has blocked 20 shots -- 0.3 per game.

I still don't know if he's the future at PF but he looks like he could at least be a very good defensive/rebounding role player - like Kurt Thomas.

Or do you go after Zach Collins/Jarrett Allen?
 
Vonleh is proving that he can be a very good defender - both on the block and the p&r.

He's almost like a Kurt Thomas type - very good post defense with no rim protection. In 67 games this season he has blocked 20 shots - 0.3 per game.

I still don't know if he's the future at PF but he looks like he could at least be a very good defensive/rebounding role player - like Kurt Thomas.

They need to bring in one of those top PF prospects with one of their picks to challenge him and see who steps up.
 
They need to bring in one of those top PF prospects with one of their picks to challenge him and see who steps up.

I agree. But I doubt any of them will beat him out as a rookie. But you are right, we need 1 PF, 1 center and 1 beer. (I mean 1 wing)
 
I agree. But I doubt any of them will beat him out as a rookie. But you are right, we need 1 PF, 1 center and 1 beer. (I mean 1 wing)

I really like how the DraftExpress mock draft looks, it has us taking Justin Jackson with our pick with Jarrett Allen and Justin Patton still available, TJ Leaf and Harry Giles are still available with our Memphis pick, and Caleb Swanigan and Bam Adebayo is still available with our Cleveland pick
 
There are a lot of bigs in this draft with upside.

I'm fully convinced that Vonleh's ceiling is Kurt Thomas - Who was a very solid role player on contending teams -- will Vonleh reach his ceiling is the question. If yes, you can have him as a piece to this core of Dame/CJ/Nurk.
 
I'm not sure why you lump O'Quinn in with Faried and Thompson. O'Quinn may not have 3-point range, but he does shoot very well from 16' - 3-point distance. He can also play back-up center, which Faried can't.

When I think midrange (aka: long two range) I think of two players: C.J. McCollum (present) and LaMarcus Aldridge (recent past). Of course, O'Quinn isn't in the same class as either, but he does have a sold long two game. 25 - 30% of his FGAs are in the 16' - 3-point range and he knocks them down at a very respectable clip.

Here's how O'Quinn's long two game compares to C.J. and Aldridge:

Kyle O'Quinn:
2015-16 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = .303; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .439
2016-17 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = .253; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .443

C.J. McCollum:
2015-16 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = .201; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .443
2016-17 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = ..222; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .465

LaMarcus Aldridge (last two seasons in POR):
2013-14 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = .415; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .442 (career best)
2014-15 - Percent of FGA by Distance 16' < 3 = .365; FG% by Distance 16' < 3 = .415 (career average = .420)

Of course, C.J. can create his own shot from anywhere on the court, that's a huge reason he is so effective and Aldridge has always made his living with the long two, but in term of shooting percentages in this range, O'Quinn compares favorably with these two midrange specialists. I don't want O'Quinn shooting the long two as much as Aldridge did, I just want him shooting it often enough to keep defenses honest.

O'Quinn is also a much better passer (15.4 AST%) than Faried (6.1 AST%) and Tristan Thompson (4.7 AST%) and a bit better than Amir Johnson (13.1 AST%). His passing, plus his midrange shooting makes him look like a good fit, on the offensive end, in Stotts' system.

O'Quinn is equivalent to Faried in rebounding (19.4 TRB%) , and better than Johnson and Thompson and twice the shot blocker (6.8 BLK%) as all three: Faried (19.8 TRB%, 2.6 BLK%), Johnson (12.6 TRB%, 3.2 BLK%) and Thompson (17.5 TRB%, 3.0 BLK%).

With Vonleh's emergence, playing next to Nurkic, I'm fine with continuing to start that pair and see how they continue to develop. I think our draft picks (if not traded) would be better spent finding a difference make at the SF position, a cheaper Crabbe replacement and a cheaper, better Leonard replacement. That leaves us with a glaring hole at back up 4 and 5, which is why I think Kyle O'Quinn is a great fit. He has the size and strength to back up Nurkic at the 5 and the midrange game and passing to play next to Nurk as a back up 4.

As an underutilized player on a cheap contract, he also seems like the classic Neil Oshey target. Like Nurkic in DEN, O'Quinn is playing behind his team's franchise player of the future and only getting about 15 minutes per game. With Jokic breaking out in DEN, Nurkic was never going to get the minutes he deserved. Likewise, with Joachim Noah signed to a ridiculous contract and Porzingas (and now Henangomez) being the future of the Knicks, O'Quinn is going underutilized in NYK.

The Knicks were supposedly shopping O'Quinn at the trade deadline. They know he's not part of their future. He could be part of ours.

BNM
O'Quinn would be outstanding. That's who I want as my backup C.

Maybe they'll take Napier, Layman, and a 2nd or two?
 
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@Boob-No-More

I would love to here your thoughts on some of the following players:

-----------------------------------------

TRADE TARGETS:
--------------------------------------
Trevor Booker
- Cheap option at PF?
Ian Mahinmi, Robin Lopez, Kosta Kofous
- Would be good backup Cs, could trade AC or ET for either should we draft a wing like Justin Jackson
Eric Bledsoe
- 30 min a game 6th man? Could possibly trade Crabbe and our top 2 picks
Nicolas Batum
- I think he'd be a great 3rd ball handler and him and Nurkic in the PnR would be deadly.

-----------------------------------------

FREE AGENT TARGETS:
--------------------------------------
James Johnson
- I think he'd be great as our PF
Amir Johnson
- Underrated PF, MLE target who can shoot and defend.
Thabo Sefelosha
- Possible MLE target who'd be a good replacement if we shed AC or ET
Danilo Gallinari
- If we shed enough salary, would he be a good sign to pair with a defensive minded frontcourt?
Patrick Patterson
- Down year, but maybe he could bounce back and be of good value?
 
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It's odd because going to the basket, I don't think there is anyone on the Blazers that gets higher on a dunk than Vonleh. From a standstill under the basket, he gets up but doesn't protect the ball well so doesn't finish around the hoop well. He has huge hands so wondering if they are 'slick'. Some players have slick, leathery hands that make it tough to hold onto the ball at times.
 
He has huge hands so wondering if they are 'slick'. Some players have slick, leathery hands that make it tough to hold onto the ball at times.
If that's the case, just get him some pomade to make his hands nice and sticky whenever he runs his hands over/through his hair.

Vonleh is a total enigma to me. He has the strength, but lack explosiveness...unless he's rim running with an open lane. He has a nice touch on his jumper, but a horrible touch around the basket. He locks in on defense some games, and others he just looks like Meyers (last night - and again, I'm talking about Withey not Gobert).

I think he's a great option when he's the 5th option, but once he starts moving up in the pecking order he totally fails. So, my prognostication is he's going to suck until he's playing with Harkless/Nurkic again - that line-up puts him in his rightful position as 5th option, where he can just focus on defending one man at a time and shooting whenever he's wide open.
 

TRADE TARGETS:

--------------------------------------
Trevor Booker
- Cheap option at PF?
Ian Mahinmi, Robin Lopez, Kosta Kofous
- Would be good backup Cs, could trade AC or ET for either should we draft a wing like Justin Jackson
Eric Bledsoe
- 30 min a game 6th man? Could possibly trade Crabbe and our top 2 picks
Nicolas Batum
- I think he'd be a great 3rd ball handler and him and Nurkic in the PnR would be deadly.

-----------------------------------------

FREE AGENT TARGETS:
--------------------------------------
James Johnson
- I think he'd be great as our PF
Amir Johnson
- Underrated PF, MLE target who can shoot and defend.
Thabo Sefelosha
- Possible MLE target who'd be a good replacement if we shed AC or ET
Danilo Gallinari
- If we shed enough salary, would he be a good sign to pair with a defensive minded frontcourt?
Patrick Patterson
- Down year, but maybe he could bounce back and be of good value?

I've been thinking Amir would be a great fit next to Nurkic. His weaknesses are that he's not super athletic or a great rebounder, but those would be mitigated with the size of Nurkic, and he's known for being a willing passer who keeps the offense in flow and always seems to be in the right place at the right time. We could use some of that vet savvy IMO.

The main trade target (as I've mentioned) that I really think we should go after is Avery Bradley. Some may wonder why in the world the celtics would trade him, but I think it all depends on who they draft, as they have Brooklyn's pick. If they go after say Lonzo Ball it may make sense to cut bait with Bradley who only has a year left on his deal.

Perhaps a package of Aminu, Vonleh, and a pick could get it done? A lot to give up for a guy on an expiring deal but I think he'd fit damn near perfect next to Dame/CJ as a floor spacing elite permeter defender who can handle the ball well enough to take pressure off of either of them, plays well off the ball, and is an amazing rebounder.

The other trade targets I'd be interested in, but only to get Crabbe or Leonard (or both!) deal off of our books would be the suns guys Tyson Chandler and Jared Dudley. Yeah, they both have bad deals, so do the guys we'd be giving up (in any combo). Chandler would add much needed interior D, spell Nurk for 20 minutes a game, and provide a stable vet presence who is familiar with Stotts (who must have liked him given that we were rumored to be pursuing him last season). Dudley is now an undersized 4 with mediocre D but, like Amir, is known to always be in the right place at the right time, has a great +- over his career, and is known to be an amazing locker room guy.

Not sure it's possible at all, but hypothetically if we could turn Leonard/Crabbe/Vonleh/Aminu/a pick or two into Chandler/Dudley/Bradley and sign Amir Johnson I would love this rotation (filled out with draft picks and youngsters).

Lillard/Bradley
McCollum/(Bradley/Turner)
Harkless/Turner
Johnson/Dudley
Nurkic/Chandler/Davis

Lots of vets, lots of shooting, lots of hustle. Would love to grab Jordan Bell in the draft too (at the end of the first round)
 
@Boob-No-More

I would love to here your thoughts on some of the following players:

-----------------------------------------

TRADE TARGETS:
--------------------------------------
Trevor Booker
- Cheap option at PF?
Ian Mahinmi, Robin Lopez, Kosta Kofous
- Would be good backup Cs, could trade AC or ET for either should we draft a wing like Justin Jackson
Eric Bledsoe
- 30 min a game 6th man? Could possibly trade Crabbe and our top 2 picks
Nicolas Batum
- I think he'd be a great 3rd ball handler and him and Nurkic in the PnR would be deadly.

-----------------------------------------

FREE AGENT TARGETS:
--------------------------------------
James Johnson
- I think he'd be great as our PF
Amir Johnson
- Underrated PF, MLE target who can shoot and defend.
Thabo Sefelosha
- Possible MLE target who'd be a good replacement if we shed AC or ET
Danilo Gallinari
- If we shed enough salary, would he be a good sign to pair with a defensive minded frontcourt?
Patrick Patterson
- Down year, but maybe he could bounce back and be of good value?

I dont want to sound rude, but you seem to have no idea about cap situation etc. Batum, Mahinmi? These are terrible contracts unless you mean giving up Dame or Cj.
Moreover there are no FA targets for the Blazers. We just cannot shed that much salary, its impossible although these players would be useful.

I have thought about Booker and Koufos and i yhink we should give a try, they should be available for almost nothing.
 
I dont want to sound rude, but you seem to have no idea about cap situation etc. Batum, Mahinmi? These are terrible contracts unless you mean giving up Dame or Cj.
Moreover there are no FA targets for the Blazers. We just cannot shed that much salary, its impossible although these players would be useful.

I have thought about Booker and Koufos and i yhink we should give a try, they should be available for almost nothing.

I'm excitedly awaiting BNM's response. And yes I logged in to post for the first time in forever to post this.
 
I dont want to sound rude, but you seem to have no idea about cap situation etc. Batum, Mahinmi? These are terrible contracts unless you mean giving up Dame or Cj.
Moreover there are no FA targets for the Blazers. We just cannot shed that much salary, its impossible although these players would be useful.

I have thought about Booker and Koufos and i yhink we should give a try, they should be available for almost nothing.
Why would Trevor Booker be available for almost nothing? He seems to be one of the only decent players the Nets have, and he's on a good contract. If I'm Sean Marks, I'm not giving Booker up for anything less than Harkless.
 
I dont want to sound rude, but you seem to have no idea about cap situation etc. Batum, Mahinmi? These are terrible contracts unless you mean giving up Dame or Cj.
Moreover there are no FA targets for the Blazers. We just cannot shed that much salary, its impossible although these players would be useful.

I have thought about Booker and Koufos and i yhink we should give a try, they should be available for almost nothing.
Do you rally think I have no idea about the cap situation? Do you not read enough of my posts?

In both, we'd trade the awful contracts of Turner and Crabbe.

Mahinmi is making less than both and is just as Valuable. So a straight across trade names sense if we drafted a wing who is ready to play right away (Justin Jackson).

Batum is an upgrade over both, and is only making $7M more, so trading Turner+Leonard+OurPick might make sense.

We could shed that much salary. Brooklyn would take Crabbe and Leonard for free. Sacramento would probably take Turner if a pick is attached. Harmless, Davis, and Aminu are all on positive contracts who we could get something for.

So how couldn't we shed that much salary?
 
But in all calculations we have to think about the future too. With around 100M between CJ, Dame, Batum and Nurkic what will be left for the others?

And if we get rid of a bad contract we shouldnt take back an even worse which is Mahinmi's who has no knees and is 30 years old.
 
But in all calculations we have to think about the future too. With around 100M between CJ, Dame, Batum and Nurkic what will be left for the others?

And if we get rid of a bad contract we shouldnt take back an even worse which is Mahinmi's who has no knees and is 30 years old.
We'd be over the cap by then. We'd have role players on rookie contracts and value contracts (ex. Kyle O'Quinn) so we'd be fine.

We could likely get a pick with Mahinmi though so...
 

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