Fire Quinn
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Lafreniere has played 4.5 of 5 games on the top two lines. Buch has been our best forward. Kakko has developed real chemistry with Chytil, on what was maybe our best line the past few games. It's crazy you guys are whining about this. Sure you can nit-pick and say I want Kakko and/or DeAngelo on PP 1, or Gauthier on the 3rd line, but overall the mix has been fine. And let's flip it the other way, should Lafreniere be in the top 6 this early in his career when he won't shoot?
Again, this is not complicated despite you wanting to rip Quinn for everything. Our top players have played poorly, we are the youngest team in the league and have a lot of growing and learning to do, we have not received good goaltending, and as a result we are struggling out of the gate.
Go ahead and take the lazy predictable path and blame the coach, but I will not do that. He has been fine, even if you can say maybe he should do this or maybe he do that. That is common with every coach, none are perfect. Quinn has not been the issue here.
Again, this is not complicated despite you wanting to rip Quinn for everything. Our top players have played poorly, we are the youngest team in the league and have a lot of growing and learning to do, we have not received good goaltending, and as a result we are struggling out of the gate.
Go ahead and take the lazy predictable path and blame the coach, but I will not do that. He has been fine, even if you can say maybe he should do this or maybe he do that. That is common with every coach, none are perfect. Quinn has not been the issue here.
Dump is spot on. I completely agree. Chuck the point is there needs to be a veteran who will develop kids. Kakko needs to play either with Panarin or Ziban on the same line. Gauthier should be playing at the very least on the 3rd line, and you don't punish kids when they make a mistake. It took Quinn 41 games finally to bench Smith a year ago when he clearly sucked. That's the point. If you are not going to develop kids and you are a Renney or AV type of coach, then fine, trade the kids for all veterans and win a cup, which of course is stupid. Let's see how Anderson pans out in LA. That is a great litmus test to see if Quinn misused him. And Buch is not our best forward, even now. He is good, not great. When you compare to rest of the team, yes he stands out, if you put him on a different team right now he is average. Outside of Fox and Miller at this point, nobody stands out to me so far this year.
Greyvtrayn
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I don't think Chuck is saying that Buch has been great (maybe he is and I missed it), I think he was saying Buch has been the best forward on the team 5 games into the season.
Personally I think a lot of this falls on Quinn. A huge part of being a coach/leader is motivating the players. Strome looks mostly disinterested, Kreider has been invisible, Panarin and Zib look out of sorts.
I like that he took Johnson off the ice last game. I much prefer Smith to him. Of course, having to play Smith is part of the issue. You can't have too many young guys on d and the Rangers already do with Fox, Lindgren and Miller even though they all have been playing well. You need veteran presence out there so barring injury I think those are the only young defensemen we are going to see this season.
This team has A LOT to work on on both ends of the ice. It's going to be a long abbreviated season. These next two games against Buffalo will be a good indicator of the potential they have. They are not going to finish in the top 4 but, if they come in 5th or 6th and no one suffers any major injuries I like their chances next season to make some noise if they can get top-end help at C position.
Personally I think a lot of this falls on Quinn. A huge part of being a coach/leader is motivating the players. Strome looks mostly disinterested, Kreider has been invisible, Panarin and Zib look out of sorts.
I like that he took Johnson off the ice last game. I much prefer Smith to him. Of course, having to play Smith is part of the issue. You can't have too many young guys on d and the Rangers already do with Fox, Lindgren and Miller even though they all have been playing well. You need veteran presence out there so barring injury I think those are the only young defensemen we are going to see this season.
This team has A LOT to work on on both ends of the ice. It's going to be a long abbreviated season. These next two games against Buffalo will be a good indicator of the potential they have. They are not going to finish in the top 4 but, if they come in 5th or 6th and no one suffers any major injuries I like their chances next season to make some noise if they can get top-end help at C position.
Keep KAKKO with chytil and add the breadman to that line making it the 2nd and move stromes useless ass to the third line. They should do whatever they can to move stromes useless ass out of here and get Barron some time with the big club.
That's exactly my point on Buch Grey.
As for Quinn's responsibility, I respectfully disagree as I have been saying.
Strome's career has been filled with underachieving until he was paired with Panarin. Now it's on Quinn because he looks disinterested? Was it on Quinn when he was traded twice before as an underachieving # 5 pick? Maybe that's just who Strome is.
Kreider has been like this is whole career. He shows up for some games, then disappears for some games, then shows up, then disappears. That's who he has been long before Quinn became the coach. It's why I didn't want to re-sign him long term. I don't think that's on Quinn.
Panarin and Zib are different, and I would expect they'll turn it on sooner rather than later. But I will point out Zib had the best season of his career under Quinn. Does he get no credit for that if he gets blame the other way?
On D right now Smith or Johnson will play. I don't like it, and neither option is ideal, but for one last season until a few more kids are ready, that's reality. There is no good option between them for Quinn IMO. And I like you pointing out the kids on D are playing well, Quinn gets no credit for that?
Overall, I agree 100% with your last point about this season and adding a top 6 C moving forward.
As for Quinn's responsibility, I respectfully disagree as I have been saying.
Strome's career has been filled with underachieving until he was paired with Panarin. Now it's on Quinn because he looks disinterested? Was it on Quinn when he was traded twice before as an underachieving # 5 pick? Maybe that's just who Strome is.
Kreider has been like this is whole career. He shows up for some games, then disappears for some games, then shows up, then disappears. That's who he has been long before Quinn became the coach. It's why I didn't want to re-sign him long term. I don't think that's on Quinn.
Panarin and Zib are different, and I would expect they'll turn it on sooner rather than later. But I will point out Zib had the best season of his career under Quinn. Does he get no credit for that if he gets blame the other way?
On D right now Smith or Johnson will play. I don't like it, and neither option is ideal, but for one last season until a few more kids are ready, that's reality. There is no good option between them for Quinn IMO. And I like you pointing out the kids on D are playing well, Quinn gets no credit for that?
Overall, I agree 100% with your last point about this season and adding a top 6 C moving forward.
Not crazy mel, play Panarin with Chytil and Kakko. That's fair. I don't think that equals OMG Quinn is awful and deserves to be fired though. That's the point here, not can he make a couple of shifts to maybe better maximize the talent, sure he can. You can say that about almost every coach.
Interesting article:
The Athletic’s Craig Custance sent out a survey to 21 player agents back in November to ask a variety of questions. He did so on the condition of anonymity in order to elicit unfiltered responses.
“Jack Eichel,” one anonymous agent said is very likely to be traded. “He’s an interesting one. At some point, he’s just going to say, enough. Buffalo and losing is not fun.”
So could the 24 year-old pivot get dealt this upcoming season? New Sabres GM, Kevyn Adams said he’s listening but has no intention of trading Eichel. Here’s the rub, it’s not solely because they don’t want to, it’s also because they paid him to play next year already.
Eichel makes $10 million per season. However, the way they structured the deal he was due $7.5 million in a signing bonus this season which they already paid. His base salary is just $2.5 million, so the Sabres aren’t trading him now. They may not even trade him next season, but keep your eye on the summer of 2022.
That’s because he will be due another $7.5 million bonus and his no trade kicks in. If Eichel is going to be deal. it would make more sense at the 2021-22 trade deadline or offseason.
Still, if a trade is inevitable Jeff Gorton would have the assets in players and prospects to get the deal done during this offseason. The Rangers game-plan is to use their deep prospect pipeline to acquire a big name star, and that means a trade not UFA signings. Something is brewing and many believe it’s the Rangers landing Eichel.
Bottom line, Jack Eichel on the Rangers is not the far-fetched fantasy some believed not too long ago. It could become a reality next season.
The Athletic’s Craig Custance sent out a survey to 21 player agents back in November to ask a variety of questions. He did so on the condition of anonymity in order to elicit unfiltered responses.
“Jack Eichel,” one anonymous agent said is very likely to be traded. “He’s an interesting one. At some point, he’s just going to say, enough. Buffalo and losing is not fun.”
So could the 24 year-old pivot get dealt this upcoming season? New Sabres GM, Kevyn Adams said he’s listening but has no intention of trading Eichel. Here’s the rub, it’s not solely because they don’t want to, it’s also because they paid him to play next year already.
Eichel makes $10 million per season. However, the way they structured the deal he was due $7.5 million in a signing bonus this season which they already paid. His base salary is just $2.5 million, so the Sabres aren’t trading him now. They may not even trade him next season, but keep your eye on the summer of 2022.
That’s because he will be due another $7.5 million bonus and his no trade kicks in. If Eichel is going to be deal. it would make more sense at the 2021-22 trade deadline or offseason.
Still, if a trade is inevitable Jeff Gorton would have the assets in players and prospects to get the deal done during this offseason. The Rangers game-plan is to use their deep prospect pipeline to acquire a big name star, and that means a trade not UFA signings. Something is brewing and many believe it’s the Rangers landing Eichel.
Bottom line, Jack Eichel on the Rangers is not the far-fetched fantasy some believed not too long ago. It could become a reality next season.
panzerporter
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Listening to the criticism of Quinn brings back memories of youth coaching and the parents who blamed everyone except their lazy kid for their shortcomings. There are 8 guys in the NHL with more points than our top line,. I don't think the Rangers can afford to bring Buch back so I can see him being traded. Don't see how the Rangers can afford Eichel.
I think they absolutely can afford one more big ticket item. We talked about the 14 mill off next year in dead cap space, Smith, and Johnson. You have another 9.3 mill tied up between DeAngelo and Strome which can/will be moved. And overall you have Panarin at 11.6, then no one else close all the way down to Trouba at 8. And then down to 6.5 after that. After next season we drop another 1.5 mill of dead cap money. And after 23 we drop another 2.5 of dead cap money. Even when Z gets 10 after next season, that still leaves 46.1 tied up in your top 5 players, not crazy at all. And in a few years the cap will go up.
Now you will have to make some tough choices as kids get raises. Buch? Which kids may need to go and be replaced by other kids? But we can afford another big item I think for sure.
Now you will have to make some tough choices as kids get raises. Buch? Which kids may need to go and be replaced by other kids? But we can afford another big item I think for sure.
Here are some other teams top 5 highest cap hits added up:
Caps 40.25
Pens 37
Flyers 37.4
LV 38.2
Tor 46
So at 46 we'd be right there with Toronto, but let's also keep in mind we are talking 2 years from now to get there, and assuming Ziban gets 10 mill per. In 2 or 3 years the cap will go up a bit, even if it goes up 1-2 mill in 3 years, that's 1 year at 46 mill against the current cap (again assuming 10 for Ziban).
It is doable IMO.
Caps 40.25
Pens 37
Flyers 37.4
LV 38.2
Tor 46
So at 46 we'd be right there with Toronto, but let's also keep in mind we are talking 2 years from now to get there, and assuming Ziban gets 10 mill per. In 2 or 3 years the cap will go up a bit, even if it goes up 1-2 mill in 3 years, that's 1 year at 46 mill against the current cap (again assuming 10 for Ziban).
It is doable IMO.
panzerporter
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I didn't like resigning Strome or Tony D but here we are but those contracts give them very low trade value. I'm not sure how much cap money is left after the RFAs get resigned. Buch $3.25, Chytil $894, Howden $863, Gauthier $863, Lindgren $925, Shest $925. Then next year the Rangers have Mika to consider and RFAs Kakko, Fox and Georgiev. That $46mil for 6 players will be stretched tight
I'm not too concerned about it. Strome and DeAngelo will be fully gone next season, or at the trade DL. Those contracts will be zero hinderance on us getting a C. With one year left into next season they will be moveable deals if they need to be moved. As for the rest, yeah tough choices will be made. Does Buch stay? Does Gauthier stay? Plus none of those guys will get mega deals after their first contracts. If we can get Eichel, we'll get him and his contract won't be a concern. That's why all the buzz out there says he'll be a Ranger at some point. We'll see if that's true, but the contract won't be an issue if we can get him.
kreidertime
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Obvious to me that the team has quit on him. Every game fucking changing lines and screwing up Kakko and Lafreniere. Where is he holding that dumbass Trouba accountable? Tell the dumb fuck to stop pinching and making risky plays. Just keep the puck out of the net.
kreidertime
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Finally other boards realizing Quinn needs to go. He has no clue how to coach forwards or install a defensive system.
kreidertime
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Jack Hughes played 23 minutes for the Devils today. 3 for 11 on draws. 1 A. That's what you call trying to develop a young, elite talent. Not playing Kakko 9 minutes because a career 27 year old tries hard.
What about Lafreniere who has been in the top 6 since game 1, and averages 15:29 per game? Or Miller who has been in the top 4 pretty much the whole season and averages 17:43 per game? Let me guess, those don't count because they don't tell the negative story you want to tell about yet another coach. Tired.
And to his credit, being a stand up man, Quinn said when the last game ended he realized he didn’t play Kakko enough. Wasn’t his intent, he said.
I am sure any 1 game drop in minutes will play itself out overall.
And to his credit, being a stand up man, Quinn said when the last game ended he realized he didn’t play Kakko enough. Wasn’t his intent, he said.
I am sure any 1 game drop in minutes will play itself out overall.
Stepupstepan
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This college fool behind the bench needs to go.
kreidertime
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Yeah, he's getting worse. Kakko had 13 minutes of icetime last night. He has to do. That's not how you develop an elite, young talent. Guy is just lost right now. JD is a strong leader. He's fired coaches quickly before. So, I don't think Quinn is long for this job at all. If the Rangers don't go 5-0-1 in their next 6 games, he's done IMO.
How did he develop laf and Miller. Miller was a stud from the first tome he touched the ice and should be on the pp and pk consistently. Laf scored over 200 pts on his last season. He has 1 goal here. Yep great job. Maybe because on a given 10 minutes he plays on 3 lines with diff mates. KAKKO is a stud but yesterday once again stuck with lemieux and howden. Yep, great job coach. This guy doesn’t leave a line intact for more than 2 minutes. He juggles so much he should be a circus juggler. How did Igor who is a shutdown goalie in a competition with Georgiev who is a backup for a reason. Are we basing it on a couple games? Smith and johnson and D’Angelo suck on defense. So yes, let’s make sure their always together and on ice for the last minute of a period. Quinn is a joke and JD needs to step in and replace his college ass already. We’ve played the worst teams in the division. Can’t wait till we play the bruins, caps and flyers! What is the deal with howden? He sucks!! Since we’re gonna suck with Quinn get Barron, Hajek and yes even Robertson On the 3rd pair and see what we’ve got. Can’t Be worse than the shit were running out there. How he is using KAKKO is just criminal!!
You cannot have it both ways mel. You cannot knock him for limiting Kakko's minutes (which is over the top), and at the same time give him zero kudos for playing Miller and Lafreniere in important roles from day 1. You can't say he doesn't develop kids, and then give him no kudos for Buch and Chytil. That is so ridiculously unfair. You pick and choose what you want to knock him for, and then give him no credit the other way. Crazy.
As for Smith/Johnson, I agree that Gorton needs to do a better job there giving Quinn options. Right now he has none. I know it doesn't fit your hate Quinn narrative, but that's the GM not giving the coach an option. He only has 7 dmen, so one of Johnson/Smith has to play. Bring up someone else please Gorton and give your coach options.
As for Smith/Johnson, I agree that Gorton needs to do a better job there giving Quinn options. Right now he has none. I know it doesn't fit your hate Quinn narrative, but that's the GM not giving the coach an option. He only has 7 dmen, so one of Johnson/Smith has to play. Bring up someone else please Gorton and give your coach options.
BigDaddyAl1973
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Which winger should have his time time limted for Kakko? Buch?..Breadman? Al? Kreider?
Look at it this way.
3 years ago the team sent out a letter essentially saying we are packing it in, and selling off all the vets, be patient fans we have a plan. At that time we knew we'd have years to live through before we would contend again.
Things have gone better than anyone really could have expected due to smart moves by Gorton, patience by Gorton and team, and some great lottery luck with Kakko and a potential generational talent in Lafreniere.
We overachieve last year for sure. We then get a taste of what "playoff" hockey is, and we were not ready for it. That turned out to be a blessing in disguise due to winning the lottery.
Fast forward to this year. For some odd reason you fans got way out over your skis with regards to where this team is/was. We lost even more leadership, Staal and Fast who both wore A's, and our true team leader and glue for 15 years in Hank. There was no training camp, months off, and a realignment into a tougher division. All things that are not good for the youngest team in the NHL - again the youngest team in the NHL.
Ziban had Covid, and is clearly struggling to start due to this. Our goaltenders have both struggled. Our 3rd pair LD is a joke. We badly need a # 2 C. And most of all if we were being fair, when this process started in Feb of 2018, we all had to figure best case was we would be back in position to maybe start winning again next season after Staal, Hank's, and Smith's deals came off the books. That was compounded by the huge balloon Shatt buyout dead cap space this season. We have nearly 13 mill in dead cap space.
Add it all up, and none of this is surprising if we are being real. But that's not what we do in here. It's OMG despite all of this I cannot believe we are struggling, and our coach needs to go. It's crazy, it really is. And I say that while also stating I don't know yet if Quinn is the guy to lead this team back into contention starting next season. The jury is still out, is he the guy for the next step or not, we'll see. But today he does not deserve to be fired IMO.
3 years ago the team sent out a letter essentially saying we are packing it in, and selling off all the vets, be patient fans we have a plan. At that time we knew we'd have years to live through before we would contend again.
Things have gone better than anyone really could have expected due to smart moves by Gorton, patience by Gorton and team, and some great lottery luck with Kakko and a potential generational talent in Lafreniere.
We overachieve last year for sure. We then get a taste of what "playoff" hockey is, and we were not ready for it. That turned out to be a blessing in disguise due to winning the lottery.
Fast forward to this year. For some odd reason you fans got way out over your skis with regards to where this team is/was. We lost even more leadership, Staal and Fast who both wore A's, and our true team leader and glue for 15 years in Hank. There was no training camp, months off, and a realignment into a tougher division. All things that are not good for the youngest team in the NHL - again the youngest team in the NHL.
Ziban had Covid, and is clearly struggling to start due to this. Our goaltenders have both struggled. Our 3rd pair LD is a joke. We badly need a # 2 C. And most of all if we were being fair, when this process started in Feb of 2018, we all had to figure best case was we would be back in position to maybe start winning again next season after Staal, Hank's, and Smith's deals came off the books. That was compounded by the huge balloon Shatt buyout dead cap space this season. We have nearly 13 mill in dead cap space.
Add it all up, and none of this is surprising if we are being real. But that's not what we do in here. It's OMG despite all of this I cannot believe we are struggling, and our coach needs to go. It's crazy, it really is. And I say that while also stating I don't know yet if Quinn is the guy to lead this team back into contention starting next season. The jury is still out, is he the guy for the next step or not, we'll see. But today he does not deserve to be fired IMO.
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Both Miller and Laf are North Americans. Isn't there a pattern with Quinn toward European players. Don't you think Laf voiced his unhappiness on being moved to 3rd line and Quinn granted it? It seems as if European players have no voice. He did a similar thing to Anderson. I agree Anderson acted like a baby, but there might be something there. Miller had few years to develop and there is no credit given to Quinn at all. When you put the kid on the ice and he impresses. Kakko is not a late 1st round pick, he is an elite talent just like dump just said. He needs to play with elite players. We don't have elite centers besides Ziban, but putting Kakko with Panarin would make sense as Panarin can help him develop. That is Quinn's only choice right now since he doesn't have a 2nd line center which is in Gorton. Howden sucks big time. Why is he still on this team? He cannot stand on his two feet. Every time I look he is down on the ice. Putting Kakko with Howden is beyond insane.
With goalies situation. Goalies need to get going. You don't rotate them. That is just dumb. If you think Georgiev is your 1st, fine. Let him play more. Shesterkin clearly is better, but if Quinn was to play Girogiev because he feels he is better, I would have been fine with that. Pick one!
Quinn is killing this team. Blackwell or Giseppie on the second line when you have kids to develop is wrong.
With goalies situation. Goalies need to get going. You don't rotate them. That is just dumb. If you think Georgiev is your 1st, fine. Let him play more. Shesterkin clearly is better, but if Quinn was to play Girogiev because he feels he is better, I would have been fine with that. Pick one!
Quinn is killing this team. Blackwell or Giseppie on the second line when you have kids to develop is wrong.
Buch and Chytil have clearly developed under Quinn, so no I don't think there is a European thing with Quinn. And Lafreniere has been in the top 6 since the 2nd period of game 1. So not sure about that one.
As Al wrote, Lafreniere, Kreider, Buch, and Panarin. Which winger goes down to give Kakko more time? Make the call. The Rangers are loaded on the wings, with more coming. They are lacking at C, which you all downplay but it's a HUGE issue. Get on Gorton for not making a move there (and I wouldn't because I think he has a plan after this season), once again that is not on Quinn.
As Al wrote, Lafreniere, Kreider, Buch, and Panarin. Which winger goes down to give Kakko more time? Make the call. The Rangers are loaded on the wings, with more coming. They are lacking at C, which you all downplay but it's a HUGE issue. Get on Gorton for not making a move there (and I wouldn't because I think he has a plan after this season), once again that is not on Quinn.
the coach needs to figure that out al but buch getting 21 and KAKKO 9 isn’t cutting it. Balance the tome. This kid was the 2nd overall pick in the draft last year!! He fucked him last year . Do we need to watch him do it again this years
