Firefighters in El Segundo, CA: Make $210k per year, still shoplift at costco.

[EL PRESIDENTE]

http://www.laweekly.com/2011-05-26/news/rich-fireman-named-in-shoplifting/

The hero-turns-heel allegations have made Archambault a metaphor for the El Segundo firefighters' union, its members' staggering $210,000 average compensation in a town so sleepy that fires are rare, and the union's push to merge with the Los Angeles County Fire Department in order to preserve its outsized pay scale.

"Everything about this shoplifting case illustrates what we've been saying for years: These public safety unions have invaded our little town and taken over the political system to enrich themselves," says Michael Robbins, a former El Segundo councilman turned civic watchdog.

"The police and fire unions have developed an incredible sense of entitlement, a feeling that they are royalty and we are just here to fund their grossly inflated salaries and lavish lifestyles. Look at the facts."

Archambault, 52, was arrested on April 12 by Torrance police after he allegedly stole $375 in electronics from a Costco in Torrance. He owns a $1 million ranch-style rambler in Rolling Hills Estates, one of the priciest suburbs in the United States.

El Segundo City Councilwoman Suzanne Fuentes says Archambault typifies the strange problem that residents of this small, middle-class L.A. suburb are confronting: "Only one of 50 members of the El Segundo firefighters' union actually lives in this city. Yet they're trying to control our little Mayberry-by-the-sea."

Archambault earned $208,000 in total compensation last year. According to his arrest report, he was spotted by loss-prevention officers at the Costco at 2751 Skypark Drive in Torrance as he surreptitiously opened a box containing a trash can and stuffed it with a Belkin router, a Motorola modem, earbuds, ink cartridges and a Waterpik Water Flosser.

The fireman then allegedly purchased the trash can for $47.99 — with the electronics hidden inside. He was detained outside the store and handed over to Torrance police. A few hours later he posted $1,000 bail.

No longer blue-collar, El Segundo firefighters — who require only a GED to enter the 10-week firefighter academy program — are among L.A. County's richest citizens.

Their total annual compensation averages $210,000 in a low-crime town of 16,000 residents, which averages fewer than two structure fires a year. Essentially, they are very well paid paramedics. More than 90 percent of their calls are for medical transports.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

hopefully he goes to jail and gets ass raped

 

[Ed O]

I don't think that is a good reason to indict firefighters... to indict HIM? Sure. But other people who never need to shoplift seem to do so, and they're not part of a public employees union.

I will say this, though: I don't understand why I have a firetruck outside of my apartment building every other day. I haven't seen any smoke or fire since I've lived there (over three years) but I swear to effing God they're there three or four times a week.

There's an old folks' home across one street and a low-income housing unit just down the street... so presumably they're doing paramedic-type work. I fail to see why there needs to be the full firetruck and firefighter contingent, though...

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Do you think that they should be paid $210k (average) per year? El Segundo is a safe, small, quiet city. Article says it, 2 fires per year.

Even by LA standards, its quite excessive...especially since prisons are so overcrowded they're just going to start letting people out.


200k firefighters and 300k lifeguards. And you wonder why California is broke. But let's close hospitals and prisons! :MARIS61:

 

[Ed O]

Do you think that they should be paid $210k (average) per year? El Segundo is a safe, small, quiet city. Article says it, 2 fires per year.

Even by LA standards, its quite excessive...especially since prisons are so overcrowded they're just going to start letting people out.

200k firefighters and 300k lifeguards. And you wonder why California is broke. But let's close hospitals and prisons! :MARIS61:

I'm not arguing that they should be paid that. Just that him shoplifting doesn't have anything to do with the underlying issue.

Based on what California is experiencing, they will have to change quite a bit, and so it seems less pay for firefighters might be a place they need to address. But I really don't know.

Ed O.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Do you think that they should be paid $210k (average) per year? El Segundo is a safe, small, quiet city. Article says it, 2 fires per year.

Even by LA standards, its quite excessive...especially since prisons are so overcrowded they're just going to start letting people out.


200k firefighters and 300k lifeguards. And you wonder why California is broke. But let's close hospitals and prisons! :MARIS61:

well instead of closing prisons we could just let out all the weed smokers, save a couple billion

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I'm not arguing that they should be paid that. Just that him shoplifting doesn't have anything to do with the underlying issue.

Based on what California is experiencing, they will have to change quite a bit, and so it seems less pay for firefighters might be a place they need to address. But I really don't know.

Ed O.

apparantly he thinks we're not paying him enough.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Poor guy. As a firefighter he's obviously an adrenaline junky. With so few fires to fight he obviously needs an outlet for his pent up adrenaline. Shoplifting is a hell of a rush and a great of a way to burn off adrenaline.

 

[Ed O]

apparantly he thinks we're not paying him enough.

Lack of income is not the reason that many people shoplift. That's my point.

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Lack of income is not the reason that many people shoplift. That's my point.

Ed O.

it could be. maybe he's not making enough and just wanted more shit. Or maybe he's a union junkie that thinks he "deserves" it.

 

[Klinky]

it could be. maybe he's not making enough and just wanted more shit. Or maybe he's a union junkie that thinks he "deserves" it.

No one in the private sector ever steals...

Private vs Public is not the problem, corruption is. It'd be more useful for people to focus their time on trying to destroy corruption rather than just parroting non-sense about how the private/public sector is killing America...

 

[Ed O]

No one in the private sector ever steals...

Private vs Public is not the problem, corruption is. It'd be more useful for people to focus their time on trying to destroy corruption rather than just parroting non-sense about how the private/public sector is killing America...

Corruption is a problem everywhere, but public unions lack the same oversight that private institutions generally do. The only way to curb public union compensation is to do so through government action--where public unions can pump money into the process and then scream bloody murder when their compensation actually IS curbed.

Private businesses, on the other hand, have to lay workers off regularly and have the omnipresent threat of insolvency/bankruptcy.

While I don't think that shoplifting has anything to do with anything here, and I agree corruption is something we should always attempt to limit, I think the public/private differences are real, and concerns over public union inertia are valid.

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

its harder to fire union junkies. they know this, so they are above the law.

 

[Klinky]

Corruption is a problem everywhere, but public unions lack the same oversight that private institutions generally do. The only way to curb public union compensation is to do so through government action--

This is often the same with the private sector. They will do everything they can get away with, even stuff that's illegal...

where public unions can pump money into the process and then scream bloody murder when their compensation actually IS curbed.

Private sector has never pumped money into the political machine to get their way?

Private businesses, on the other hand, have to lay workers off regularly and have the omnipresent threat of insolvency/bankruptcy.

They have to lay off low level workers while usually increasing executive salary in the process. Bankruptcy rarely affects those who are on top & in many cases does not mean the end of the company.

While I don't think that shoplifting has anything to do with anything here, and I agree corruption is something we should always attempt to limit, I think the public/private differences are real, and concerns over public union inertia are valid.

Public sector & private sector are different in some respects, but they are usually structured in a similar fashion & often the public sector contracts out to the private sector anyways. The concept of a union by itself is not corrupt, just like the concept of free markets or private enterprise is not corrupt. It is people playing the system that causes corruption. Any model can work so long as corruption is void. Greed is a "flaw" in humanity, one that I don't think any ideology or system can escape.

its harder to fire union junkies. they know this, so they are above the law.

It's also hard to fire incompetent or law breaking executives. When you do fire them they usually end up getting millions of dollars for their disservice. But they're entitled to it because the private sector is so much more ideologically perfect.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Its not hard to fire executives at all.

 

[Klinky]

Its not hard to fire executives at all.

Not always. E.g. Carly Fiorina @ HP, Isiah Thomas @ New York Knicks...

 

[Ed O]

Private sector has never pumped money into the political machine to get their way?

Sure they do.

They have to lay off low level workers while usually increasing executive salary in the process. Bankruptcy rarely affects those who are on top & in many cases does not mean the end of the company.

That's not correct. Small businesses go under every day. I have many friends who have lost their jobs because their companies had to shut their doors.

And to say that "bankruptcy rarely affects those who are on top" ... that's just not reality.

Public sector & private sector are different in some respects, but they are usually structured in a similar fashion & often the public sector contracts out to the private sector anyways. The concept of a union by itself is not corrupt, just like the concept of free markets or private enterprise is not corrupt. It is people playing the system that causes corruption. Any model can work so long as corruption is void. Greed is a "flaw" in humanity, one that I don't think any ideology or system can escape.

I don't think that public unions act greedy and I don't think they're corrupt (although I'm some people are greedy and some are corrupt).

STRUCTURALLY, public unions are different. They get increases when times are good but they don't have the same constraints as the private sector when things get bad.

It's also hard to fire incompetent or law breaking executives. When you do fire them they usually end up getting millions of dollars for their disservice. But they're entitled to it because the private sector is so much more ideologically perfect.

It's easy to fire executives. It happens every day.

And, no, they are not usually getting millions of dollars.

I think you're confused about the types of businesses that make up the majority of the private sector.

Ed O.

 

[44Thrilla]

if people want to steal from costco, I say let 'em.

200k a year for a fire fighter is stupid, though.

 

[MARIS61]

I don't think that is a good reason to indict firefighters... to indict HIM? Sure. But other people who never need to shoplift seem to do so, and they're not part of a public employees union.

I will say this, though: I don't understand why I have a firetruck outside of my apartment building every other day. I haven't seen any smoke or fire since I've lived there (over three years) but I swear to effing God they're there three or four times a week.

There's an old folks' home across one street and a low-income housing unit just down the street... so presumably they're doing paramedic-type work. I fail to see why there needs to be the full firetruck and firefighter contingent, though...

Ed O.

The reason they go to medical emergencies is because there is no other government agency with trained personnel, and they are far better trained than your typical private ambulance company EMTs.

The reason they all go and take their equipment is so they can respond immediately without having to return to the station first if there is a fire call.

2 issues here.

The fact he's a thief has nothing to do with firemen. Firemen are generally some of the finest citizens/people/professionals you will ever meet. They risk their lives to save lives. The councilman should STFU about that isolated person with a shoplifting problem (it's usually a psychological issue, not one of greed). Quick quiz: How many firemen have you heard about committing crimes? How many politicians have you heard about committing crimes?

The salary issue simply makes the councilman look the weak fool he is. Those salaries are negotiated by the city government. The people elected councilmen, including the one popping off here, to come to an agreement on the salary and they did. Now they blame the firemen?

As far as worth, I guess it depends on what you personally value. I think most firemen are easily worth at least $200,000 a year, compared to most other occupations which draw that income. A guy who will run INTO a burning building to pull me out is worth more to me than any politician, financier, manager or strategist.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The reason they go to medical emergencies is because there is no other government agency with trained personnel, and they are far better trained than your typical private ambulance company EMTs.

The reason they all go and take their equipment is so they can respond immediately without having to return to the station first if there is a fire call.

2 issues here.

The fact he's a thief has nothing to do with firemen. Firemen are generally some of the finest citizens/people/professionals you will ever meet. They risk their lives to save lives. The councilman should STFU about that isolated person with a shoplifting problem (it's usually a psychological issue, not one of greed). Quick quiz: How many firemen have you heard about committing crimes? How many politicians have you heard about committing crimes?

The salary issue simply makes the councilman look the weak fool he is. Those salaries are negotiated by the city government. The people elected councilmen, including the one popping off here, to come to an agreement on the salary and they did. Now they blame the firemen?

As far as worth, I guess it depends on what you personally value. I think most firemen are easily worth at least $200,000 a year, compared to most other occupations which draw that income. A guy who will run INTO a burning building to pull me out is worth more to me than any politician, financier, manager or strategist.

Are my eyes deceiving me or have you made a reasonable, rational post?

I agree with 96% of it.

 

[speeds]

I left my wallet back in El Segundo... maybe I gots to go and gets it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I left my wallet back in El Segundo... maybe I gots to go and gets it.

Don't bother. It be empty. A union member found it and relieved you of your suffering.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Put the wallet down and stared and stared

 

[Klinky]

That's not correct. Small businesses go under every day. I have many friends who have lost their jobs because their companies had to shut their doors.

And to say that "bankruptcy rarely affects those who are on top" ... that's just not reality.

We're talking about overcompensation & abuses within the public/private sector. Most of the corruption within the private sector goes on within large bureaucratic institutions. I am not talking about small business here.

STRUCTURALLY, public unions are different. They get increases when times are good but they don't have the same constraints as the private sector when things get bad.

This often happens in the private sector too. Pay raises for those at top, even when the company is having a bad year. Again, I am talking about high level executive pay. Look no further than the financial sector trashing the economy and rewarding themselves for it, to see the abuses going on.

It's easy to fire executives. It happens every day.

If you're a high level executive usually you'll be buddy buddy with the board of directors. While you can be fired, to do so will usually require the board to agree you need to be fired, which isn't always easy. If you do get fired, in many cases you have a golden parachute to soften your fall.

Is this the experience of the majority of the private sector? Perhaps not, but it happens very often.

And, no, they are not usually getting millions of dollars.

Really?

I think you're confused about the types of businesses that make up the majority of the private sector.

Again, we're talking about overcompensation & abuses. I've got nothing against small businesses.

 

[Ed O]

We're talking about overcompensation & abuses within the public/private sector. Most of the corruption within the private sector goes on within large bureaucratic institutions. I am not talking about small business here.

I don't know what YOU are talking about, but I am talking about structural issues. Large corporations are a minority of the private sector. You generalizing from Fortune 500 companies does not accurately paint the picture of private sector structure. There are, after all, only 500 of them.

Ed O.

 

[Klinky]

I don't know what YOU are talking about, but I am talking about structural issues. Large corporations are a minority of the private sector. You generalizing from Fortune 500 companies does not accurately paint the picture of private sector structure. There are, after all, only 500 of them.

Just like there is a single union that is paying a shoplifting firefighter, 210k a year. Does the majority of a sector have to be doing bad things to note that bad things happen in that sector? It doesn't matter if it's public or private, bad things happen in both. Which is why it's dumb to say "union junkies" expect to be paid big bucks so they can shoplift while on the job. Shall we say that all CEOs like to sit on their butts, drive companies into the ground while collecting fat paychecks... Some do. A lot don't.

 

[speeds]

Don't bother. It be empty. A union member found it and relieved you of your suffering.

Fail

Put the wallet down and stared and stared

Pass

 

[Minstrel]

[video=youtube;yKLFnCGZHqM]