For all the people bagging on Oden

[Nikolokolus]

The San Antonio home win aside, is there any question that this is a much better team when Greg is in the lineup?

Honestly I feel like I've been having deja vu to last year's 'playing not to lose' jump shooting team that get's abused in the post and has next to no inside game (though LMA has improved somewhat).

Get well soon big guy.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I definitely agree, we are a better team with Greg. I can't stand it when we become a jump shooting team

 

[SheedSoNasty]

We're definitely better with him. I think that most of the frustration is his lack of court time due to his injuries and not so much his abilities.

I hope that this can one day blow over and he can at least be a healthy contributor. I believe in him.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

we're better with him, but he needs to be more agressive on both ends and out of foul trouble. our ceiling is huge with him playing on his game.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Dude, Greg was in foul trouble 90% of the time he was on the court.

And who's bagging on him?! If you're insinuating me, surely you jest.

 

[Tince]

Dude, Greg was in foul trouble 90% of the time he was on the court.

And who's bagging on him?! If you're insinuating me, surely you jest.

Do you have a link to go with that stat?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Dude, Greg was in foul trouble 90% of the time he was on the court.

And who's bagging on him?! If you're insinuating me, surely you jest.

A little touchy? I wasn't referring to you, but if you think the shoe fits ...

 

[toutlaw25]

Fez, your avatar is classless. Kind of what I've come to expect from you though. Before, your Oden hate was just funny, now it's just fucking old.

 

[KingSpeed]

We're 11-5 without him. Without him, we've beaten Houston, Orlando (in Orlando), Atlanta, and San Antonio twice. Like Fez said, a lot of the time Oden is on the bench in foul trouble. He hasn't really had much impact this season. That said, I'm holding onto his most recent performance against the Knicks as my hope for the future.

 

[Nikolokolus]

We're 11-5 without him. Without him, we've beaten Houston, Orlando (in Orlando), Atlanta, and San Antonio twice. Like Fez said, a lot of the time Oden is on the bench in foul trouble. He hasn't really had much impact this season. That said, I'm holding onto his most recent performance against the Knicks as my hope for the future.

There have been some quality wins in there without him, but on the mean this is a much better rebounding and inside oriented team, better able to physically dominate the paint when Greg is available.

 

[julius]

We're 11-5 without him. Without him, we've beaten Houston, Orlando (in Orlando), Atlanta, and San Antonio twice. Like Fez said, a lot of the time Oden is on the bench in foul trouble. He hasn't really had much impact this season. That said, I'm holding onto his most recent performance against the Knicks as my hope for the future.

I do like that we're 11-5 without him..but in some aspects, we're also 39-23 without him too.

 

[KingSpeed]

There have been some quality wins in there without him, but on the mean this is a much better rebounding and inside oriented team, better able to physically dominate the paint when Greg is available.

Well, certainly, if Joel is sick or tired, we're completely screwed without Oden.

 

[hasoos]

I completely agree. The Blazers have gone from one of the best rebounding teams in the league to below average without him in the lineup. The Blazers style of play dictates that they win the rebounding war in order to have a good chance to win, and even if he was only putting down 10 points, those are points in the paint, which the Blazers need more of.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Although I would prefer to see him play 30 minutes, I would take 12 minutes and 6 fouls from Greg tomorrow night. As long they are 6 HARD fouls to the body of a driving #24.

 

[Minstrel]

Three things happen without Oden:

-Portland's rebounding prowess disappears when Przybilla isn't in the game
-Portland's perimeter defense is even more exposed with no big man to close the lane when Przybilla isn't in the game
-Portland has no low-post presence on offense, ever.

Oden's scoring game is far from refined, obviously, but he still draws consistent double-teams, something that Przybilla does not do despite superficially similar scoring numbers. Those double-teams in the post are gold for all the jump-shooters on team. Portland is an elite jump-shooting team when Oden is pulling an extra defender...they're significantly less so when there's no one to draw defenders away from their man.

So, yes...even at this early stage, when Oden is so disappointing to a certain segment of fans, he's absolutely a game-changer. A player who can change the game like that when he's at the worst he'll ever be in his career has an immense ceiling.

 

[e_blazer]

Three things happen without Oden:

-Portland's rebounding prowess disappears when Przybilla isn't in the game
-Portland's perimeter defense is even more exposed with no big man to close the lane when Przybilla isn't in the game
-Portland has no low-post presence on offense, ever.

Oden's scoring game is far from refined, obviously, but he still draws consistent double-teams, something that Przybilla does not do despite superficially similar scoring numbers. Those double-teams in the post are gold for all the jump-shooters on team. Portland is an elite jump-shooting team when Oden is pulling an extra defender...they're significantly less so when there's no one to draw defenders away from their man.

So, yes...even at this early stage, when Oden is so disappointing to a certain segment of fans, he's absolutely a game-changer. A player who can change the game like that when he's at the worst he'll ever be in his career has an immense ceiling.

Well said. Repped.

 

[Shooter]

We're 11-5 without him. Without him, we've beaten Houston, Orlando (in Orlando), Atlanta, and San Antonio twice. Like Fez said, a lot of the time Oden is on the bench in foul trouble. He hasn't really had much impact this season. That said, I'm holding onto his most recent performance against the Knicks as my hope for the future.

I don't see much evidence that we're better with Oden in the lineup. For starters, he gives the other team more foul shots and thus more opportunities to score because he fouls so much, and because he's too slow to rotate effectively on defense. He also gets the ball slapped out of his hands more than Pryzbilla does, and is not as effective as Pryz at blocking shots.

Like you, however, I'm hoping that he continues to improve. Otherwise, he may replace Sam Bowie as the most disappointing first-round draft pick in Blazers history.

 

[toutlaw25]

I don't see much evidence that we're better with Oden in the lineup. For starters, he gives the other team more foul shots and thus more opportunities to score because he fouls so much, and because he's too slow to rotate effectively on defense. He also gets the ball slapped out of his hands more than Pryzbilla does, and is not as effective as Pryz at blocking shots.

Like you, however, I'm hoping that he continues to improve. Otherwise, he may replace Sam Bowie as the most disappointing first-round draft pick in Blazers history.

Oden began the season getting the ball stripped left and right. After his first 10 games, I can count on one hand the number of times he has had the ball stripped. Pryz has hands of stone, but is still a great player because he know his limits.

Your logic never ceases to amaze me. In nearly identical playing time for both players down to the seconds,

Oden BPG 1.2
Pryz BPG 1.0

Learn the game, then post.

 

[Shooter]

Oden began the season getting the ball stripped left and right. After his first 10 games, I can count on one hand the number of times he has had the ball stripped. Pryz has hands of stone, but is still a great player because he know his limits.

So you're saying Przybilla gets the ball stripped out of his hands more than Oden? You've got to be joking.

Learn the game, then post.

 

[RW#30]

People who disappointed in Oden you have your reasons and rights. Keep in mind how many big man came in dominated the first year? We had J. O'neal for 4 years traded him and than he blossomed. Look it Bargnani, he took 2+ years, now he is showing signs. Bynum averaged 1.6 points as a rookie... WOW what a bust.
We have a guy basically out of high school after a major injury. We need to have patience and support him. Fine you want to critique him, fair but don't spew your garbage around here "I do like that we're 11-5 without him..but in some aspects, we're also 39-23 without him too." "Dude, Greg was in foul trouble 90% of the time he was on the court.
And who's bagging on him?! If you're insinuating me, surely you jest". Give him credit where credit do. Yes he intentionally ran into Maggette to get hurt. Greg gives us a lot, size, defense, dept, and a year or two from now he will be the one who take us to the promise land.

 

[Masbee]

I don't see much evidence that we're better with Oden in the lineup. For starters, he gives the other team more foul shots and thus more opportunities to score because he fouls so much, and because he's too slow to rotate effectively on defense. He also gets the ball slapped out of his hands more than Pryzbilla does, and is not as effective as Pryz at blocking shots.

Like you, however, I'm hoping that he continues to improve. Otherwise, he may replace Sam Bowie as the most disappointing first-round draft pick in Blazers history.

Bowie is not the most disappointing first-round pick in Blazer's history.

LaRue Martin
Martell Webster

Bowie got us Buck Williams. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[toutlaw25]

So you're saying Przybilla gets the ball stripped out of his hands more than Oden? You've got to be joking.

Learn the game, then post.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you think Pryz doesn't get stripped more than Oden as of the last 3 months, you're crazy. I'll assume you didn't address your claim of Pryz's superior shotblocking because you saw you were wrong. Your blind hate for certain players seems to cloud your judgement. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Learn the game, then post.

 

[Boob-No-More]

We're 11-5 without him. Without him, we've beaten Houston, Orlando (in Orlando), Atlanta, and San Antonio twice. Like Fez said, a lot of the time Oden is on the bench in foul trouble. He hasn't really had much impact this season. That said, I'm holding onto his most recent performance against the Knicks as my hope for the future.

And, we beat Boston without Roy. Does that mean we don't need Roy the next time we play the Celtics? Does that mean we could beat the Celtics in a 7-game series without Roy?

Anybody who doesn't think Oden has had an impact is either a fool, or has a very short, selective memory. Ask yourself this: would you rather go into a 7-game series against any of the other top 8 teams in the West with, or without Oden?

Last year, the Blazers three biggest weaknesses were: poor rebounding, weak interior defense and no low post offensive presence. When Oden is playing, nobody even mentions those three items as weaknesses. In fact, with Oden, they've become strengths. This year, the team's biggest weaknesses are poor perimeter defense and and relying too much on outside shooting when Oden is out of the line-up. Because rebounding, interior defense and low post scoring were such glaring weaknesses last season, nobody even talked about about the team's week perimeter defense. Has our perimeter defense gotten worse this year? No, if anything, with Batum it's gotten better. Yet, it's what most people bitch about here in every game thread. Why? Because with Oden correcting our other top three weaknesses, suddenly the poor perimeter defense stands out like a sore thumb (or, in this case, a sore knee).

The team is at their best when they have Oden AND Przybilla taking turns manning the paint and this will be even more of a factor in the play-offs where the games slow down and the scoring decreases. Rebounding and defense win in the post season. Without Oden, we're much weaker in both those areas. In spite of the injuries, and not living up to everyone's expectations (so far), Oden has had a big impact in those two areas - and he's enough of an offensive threat to draw double teams when he gets the ball in the post. That opens things up even more for our jump shooters. I love what Joel brings to the team, but when was the last time you saw him draw a double team in the low post and kick out to a teammate for a wide open 3?

BNM

 

[Shooter]

Your blind hate for certain players seems to cloud your judgement. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I've never had "blind hate" for any Trail Blazer, and I certainly don't hate Oden. I keep saying (over and over) that I hope he lives up to his potential. In fact, I want every player on our team to be a superstar, every draft pick to pan out, and every trade to be brilliant.

 

[Minstrel]

I've never had "blind hate" for any Trail Blazer

 

[Shooter]

You must not understand the concept of "blind hate." The list of grievances against Rasheed Wallace is so long that it would take an hour to recite them all. Any Blazer fan who "hates" Wallace has plenty of reasons for doing so, and it's certainly not because they are "blind."

 

[Minstrel]

You must not understand the concept of "blind hate." The list of grievances against Rasheed Wallace is so long that it would take an hour to recite them all. Any Blazer fan who "hates" Wallace has plenty of reasons for doing so, and it's certainly not because they are "blind."

When you blame every team failing on a player and refuse to credit that player with any of the team's success, it definitely qualifies as "blind." And that continued after he left the Blazers...he was definitely not responsible in any way for the Pistons winning a title, but he was the clear and only reason whenever they lost a playoff series.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I miss 'Sheed. I say bring him back this Summer!

 

[Minstrel]

I miss 'Sheed. I say bring him back this Summer!

Ron Tonkin would never stand for it.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Actually Oden has gotten a lot better about not getting stripped since his first month and a half of playing. The only time it ever gets 'stripped' now really is when they think he's been blocked but he's clearly been fouled but they don't call it. There are several examples where Greg gets hit across the head or across the wrists/forearm and no foul is called and he loses the ball. That isn't really getting stripped - that's getting pummeled with no referee assistance.