For all the "Roy is selfish" people

[hasoos]

Is that how you see it. The argument was that Nate ruins young players and me mentioning Roy, Aldrdige, Batum, Webster and Rudy smokes the argument that Nate actaully does develop young talent and not ruin them . Whatever . . .

Good try. You are all the sudden grouping actual good players with the two players you mentioned in order to try and make your argument relevant. Your argument was Batum and Webster had somehow turned into solid players. Not any of the guys you mentioned above with them. All of the guys mentioned above, are a tier of talent, or two, higher than Webster and Batum. I would expect them to improve with no coach. Last I looked, Martell Webster was and is still a below average SF. We have not got to see much of Baum this year, but in the beginning of the year he was averaging about 2 pts a game. By the end of the year, he was still passing up shots and averaging about 2 pts a game. In pre season, he was still looking like Batum of last year, even though he had a solid off season with the French team.

So as you say..Whatever....

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Good try. You are all the sudden grouping actual good players with the two players you mentioned in order to try and make your argument relevant. Your argument was Batum and Webster had somehow turned into solid players. Not any of the guys you mentioned above with them. All of the guys mentioned above, are a tier of talent, or two, higher than Webster and Batum. I would expect them to improve with no coach. Last I looked, Martell Webster was and is still a below average SF. We have not got to see much of Baum this year, but in the beginning of the year he was averaging about 2 pts a game. By the end of the year, he was still passing up shots and averaging about 2 pts a game. In pre season, he was still looking like Batum of last year, even though he had a solid off season with the French team.

So as you say..Whatever....

Good try right back at you . .. if you could follow the thread at all you would see I mentioned Roy and Aldrdige before the others. Some poster said they don't count, the old they improved in spite of Nate, so I gave more examples.

If you didn't see Batum develop as a player from the begining of pre-season until the end of the year, I don't knolw what to say. And Webster has come a long way from his rookie season, in spite of what you say (I think the Blazers agree with me given his lengthy extention). Given you're analysis of Batum, one would think the Blazers won't be interested in resigning him . . . let's see how that one goes.

 

[ABM]

Webster was on Wade for much of the game. Not sure where you're getting your info.

I was at the game.

Actually, what I was referencing were the two times I saw Wade run right past (the nonchalant, then startled) Roy on the break. Sure, Wade wasn't Roy's guy, but when he's running a break, and you're more or less the only one between him and the hoop, it would be nice to at least get a hand in the guy's face.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I disagree with you on Webster . . . what about Batum?

You use to preach that Nate would never play rookies. Now that it is obvious he will play rookies I guess the chant is he doesn't develop rookies.

I don't think I was ever on the "he won't play rookies" bandwagon. As for Batum, it is widely known that Monty Williams has spent countless hours with him.

 

[magnifier661]

He's earning it with the fat paychecks. That's good enough, I'd think.

I don't think Roy is selfish, as in he's a selfish player on the court. He's always shown the willingness to pass to his teammates, so that is not a trait of a selfish player. But I do think his seemingly reluctance to adapt to changes is a concern.

He's made it clear that he prefers playing with Blake over Miller. I'm guessing that he thinks Blake fits better with him than Miller would. And, he probably thinks that what's better for him is better for the team. So in that sense, he's not being selfish. Perhaps just misguided. But I would hope that he understands that even if Miller is not a good fit for him, Miller can help this team in other ways -- certainly more than Blake can. In other words, what's uncomfortable and even bad for Brandon might be good for the team. I hope to see Roy embrace this, but so far I haven't seen any indication of it.

And, really, Miller is not the main issue here. It is the emergence of GO that the team has to adjust to. Roy, as the best and leader of this team, could make this adjustment a lot smoother. So far, he's has failed to do his part.

This... I really think you nailed it with this post. I don't think it's "Roy wanting his" but more "Roy thinking the team should be built around him, hence players that don't feel right with him, should not play with him"

The one thing I can be certain is Roy understands the importance of the team's core. There was a reason for the "Big three" and Nate to have that meeting. At least they all agree they all should stay together.

 

[Pontius]

This... I really think you nailed it with this post. I don't think it's "Roy wanting his" but more "Roy thinking the team should be built around him, hence players that don't feel right with him, should not play with him"

I don't know, but those two quotes seem eerily similar in meaning. By wanting the team built around him, he is most certainly "wanting his".

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I don't know, but those two quotes seem eerily similar in meaning. By wanting the team built around him, he is most certainly "wanting his".

Not necessarily.

WARNING: SPECULATIVE BULLSHIT AHEAD.

Roy's simply operating under the assumption that he has been chosen as the hub of the team, The Man. "Getting His" is more like just wanting what he wants with no regard for his teammates. But Roy has the team's best interests in mind, just filtered through his assumption that he's The Man.

Now, with getting the max contract that he did, being the most productive team member last year, etc, there's plenty of evidence to support the "Roy Is The Man" assumption. So Roy is simply trying to organize the team in such a way that he and they will succeed. He feels that success will come most easily when he is The Man. After all, he was The Man last year, and look how successful they were.

So he definitely wants the team to succeed, but he feels that the burden of that success rests with him. Where Roy goes, so go the Blazers. It makes sense that Roy doesn't have an ulterior motive of getting his; rather, his motive is team success. The trouble seems to be that his assumption that Royball = Team Success that is grating against this year's reality of Odenball = Team Success.

Miller was brought in to make LMA and Oden better. He sets ups the post well, runs the break, and leads in alley-oop assists. In the starting lineup, that means LMA and Oden can feast on offense. But, unless we suddenly shoot 20 more shots per game, Roy's game is neglected. And since -- in Roy's mind -- Roy's Game is Blazer Ball, Roy feels like Miller in the starting lineup means going away from what made the Blazers successful.

Roy may have put the bug in Nate's ear to have Oden focus on defense only early on. After all, Oden's the better center when he's in, but Odenball isn't Blazer Ball. Oden isn't The Man; Roy is.

The actions all look very selfish, but I believe that Roy's intentions aren't motivated by greed. Again, he believes truly that he has the team's best interests in mind when he insists on being The Man. He's a proven commodity, the best player on the team. Jordan didn't win by not being The Man. Kobe didn't win last year by not being The Man. In his mind, successful guards must be The Man on their teams in order for them to succeed.

The trouble is two-fold: selling Roy on Balance as Blazer Ball, and succeeding in spite of Roy to prove to him that Balance *is* Blazer Ball. You have to succeed without Roy to show Roy that a balanced attack where he's not The Man, but one of Three Men. But that sell becomes harder and harder the more the team underachieves.