From laughting stock to contender...see how...

[Tribute to H2O]

First off I'd like to say Isiah Thomas should be fired, tarred and feathered, hung and then quartered for this unbearable season. Words cannot describe exactly how much I hate Isiah Thomas. Hate is a pretty strong word I know but unfortunately it's not strong enough. Somehow he's taken us from the dark ages of Scott Layden and into the seventh ring of Hell in only a couple of seasons. He has turned the Knicks from just another bad team into the worst team in franchise history. The Knicks are a big, fat, expensive joke. With that being said I think I may have just figured out how to turn them from joke into serious contender. I came up with this yesterday. I was bored and since the Knicks dont have a draft pick I decided to think about semi realistic trade scenarios to fix them and I came up with a way to turn them into a legitimate contender. If anyone disagrees with anything just say so and why, no need to insult me. I didnt think too indepth about this so I could be very wrong about a few of these scenarios. But anyway here they are:

Jerome James for Sarunas Jasikevicus: Jerome James makes more money than Sarunas and has a longer contract but he doesnt make a whole lot more money and his contract runs on only one year longer than Sarunas'. The Pacers do this deal because they dont really need Sarunas. He's a third string point guard to them because of his poor defense. However Larry Brown will love his attitude and his ability to run a team. Jerome James gives the Pacers someone to replace Pollard, some sort of insurance in case Jermaine Oneal gets injured again and another big body throw at Shaq. Looks like a fair trade for both teams.

Stephon Marbury for Zydrunas Ilgauskas: Not sure if the Cavaliers would do this one. Their searching for a better point guard than Eric Snow. Marbury for all of his faults is a much better point guard than Snow. Big Z has a history of injury problems and isnt getting any younger so the Cavaliers may be willing to trade him for Marbury. The Knicks will be able to get rid of Marbury and bring in a more consistent low post scorer, rebounder and intimidator. Damon Jones can be thrown in as a filler to make the deal work.

Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson for Ray Allen and Earl Watson (and first round pick?): With Big Z on board there wont be a need for Eddy Curry so we'd be able to shop him around for a shooting guard. This trade is probably less likely the Big Z deal but still possible I think. Ray Allen is getting up there in age and the Supersonics dont appear to be anywhere near contending again. I also hear their having problems selling tickets. So it makes sense for them to start rebuilding. And what better way to rebuild and sell tickets at the same than to bring in a young talented center dripping with potential along with two hometown heroes? The Supersonics exchange the older Ray Allen for the much younger hometown favorite Jamal Crawford. They also get Seattle's own Nate Robinson, the slam dunk champion to help boost attendance and a young center with loads of potential to go along Chris Wilcox. Earl Watson is thrown into the deal because of his contract and to make room for Ridnour and Robinson. With this trade the Supersonics will be able to start an all out youth movement. I dont think I have to explain why the Knicks would do this trade.

Jalen Rose and David Lee for Wally Szczerbiak and Brian Scalabrine: The Celtics get to dump salary and add another player to their youth core. The Knicks get a premier shooter.(Another possibility is Rose and Lee to the Magic for Grant Hill)

Maurice Taylor for Kenyon Martin: Kenyon Martin is probably the most overpaid player in the league for what he brings to the table. That alone should be enough for the Nuggets to do this trade. Kenyon Martin even though he makes way too much money and I mean way too much money would give the Knicks toughness and do the dirty work like play defense, rebound the ball and get garbage points.

Steve Francis for Theo Ratliff, Brian Skinner and 2007 pick: May give the Trailblazers a chance to get into the playoffs which would help them convince Joel Pryzbilla to stay. Gives the Knicks a shot blocker off the bench in Ratliff and insurance on Kenyon Martin in Brian Skinner.

Use the MLE to sign Matt Harpring: Harpring is very underrated. He is a Larry Brown type player. We'd be able to bring him off the bench to provide scoring, rebounding, defense and toughness.

Seattle pick: Tiago Splitter(leave in Europe)
Trade Frye to Atlanta for 2006 pick: Draft Bargnani(leave in Europe)
Trade Richardson to New Orleans for their 2006 pick: Corey Brewer
Trade our 2007 pick to Chicago for the 2006 pick: Draft Ronnie Brewer
Denver pick: Sergio Rodriguez(make him a promise leave in Europe)

When the season begins the Knicks line up should look like this:

PG- Sarunas Jasikevicus, Earl Watson, Damon Jones
SG- Ray Allen, Ronnie Brewer
SF- Wally World, Matt Harpring, Corey Brewer
PF- K-Mart, Brian Skinner, Malik Rose
C- Big Z, Theo Ratliff

A pretty good team it looks like. It looks capable of decent defense. The players should mesh well with Big Z scoring and drawing double teams in the low post, Allen and Wally knocking down open jumpers, K Mart doing the dirty work and Sarunas just ochestrating. The bench looks pretty nice. No egos work out. And the players will listen to Larry Brown. This team should be able to compete against anybody. So what do you guys think?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired and Tribute to H2O hired.

 

[Jurassic]

Come on man, none of those individual trades would even happen.

Even if those trades were realistic, a lot of them involve Eastern conference teams. If the Cavs and Celtics saw the Knicks bringing in Ray Allen and Kmart, why would they make them better by trading them Z and Wally? Besides, Lebron wants Z there and they want Lebron to stay in Cleveland.

I'm not even going to list all of the things that are wrong with what you said. But I will say that the Pacers brought in Sarunas to make up for the loss of Reggie's shooting. So they do kind of need him especially since Peja might opt out.

I'm sorry dawg, but this is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.

 

[Tha CTown Knick]

Sorry but Isiah is not smart enough to do any of those.

 

[Really Lost One]

i know you took a long time to think and write this, but as jurassic said, most of it isnt realist.

if the pacers needed a big body to be able to throw at shaq, they can easily find one in the free agency market, consider they have tons of money. if anything, they can get a better big man than overpaid, out of shape, no work ethic jerome james for jasikevicus. although jasikevicus isnt a star, he has proven he has a good shot and the pacers can get something good for him.

the stephon marbury trade is just craziness. why in the world would the cavs trade away a valuable big man in ilgauskas for steph, who is overpaid and needs the ball to dominate. with already a roster of lebron and hughes, he wont get a lot of touches. of course there is the argument that ilgauskas is injury prone, but for this season, he has stayed relatively healthy. also, you never trade a big for a small.

i have no idea why seattle would except the trade for ray allen. as you stated, they are in rebuilding stage, so why in the world would they trade for crawford and curry? two players who gets paid tons of money. id rather just keep ray allen. also, you said that they are in rebuilding stage, so why trade away a first round pick? earl watson is a very talented player, and if you put him along with ray allen and a first, you can get a lot more than just curry and crawford and nate.

the jalen rose and david lee trade is most realistic, but i cant see it happening. sure, the celtics dump brian and wally's huge contract in return for an expiring one and lee, a promising rookie. but how many younsters do you need? last i checked, the celtics have al jefferson, perkins, and ryan gomes. already three promising rookies that play the same position as lee.

maurice taylor for kenyon martin? you are kidding. do i even need to elaborate? martin is overpaid and overrated, yes, but it doesnt take away the fact that he is a good player. taylor is nothing. he is a scrub. given the nuggets situation, they should be built ready to win. they are in no rebuilding stage. please think.

steve francis to portland for skinner, ratliff, and 07 pick. wtf? last i checked portland already has a log jam at the point guard position. they have sebastian telfair and jarret jack. they are already having problems with minutes, not to mention you bring in steve francis. point guard is the position the blazers should be least concerned about.

as for the draft picks. where to start? why in the world would you trade away a proven, young big in channing frye for a first round pick? this draft isnt deep at all, and frye is the only reason to get the knicks excited about.

the q rich deal isnt realistic either. why would the hornets trade their draft pick for an overpaid, injury prone player in richardson? it doesnt make sense. richardson gets paid too much for what he does.

also, why in the world would chicago swap picks for next season? last i checked they have a good chance of getting #1 overall.

with that said, im sorry if i offended you, but you should try to think from the perspective of the other team, not just the knicks

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Come on man, none of those individual trades would even happen.

Even if those trades were realistic, a lot of them involve Eastern conference teams. If the Cavs and Celtics saw the Knicks bringing in Ray Allen and Kmart, why would they make them better by trading them Z and Wally? Besides, Lebron wants Z there and they want Lebron to stay in Cleveland.

I'm not even going to list all of the things that are wrong with what you said. But I will say that the Pacers brought in Sarunas to make up for the loss of Reggie's shooting. So they do kind of need him especially since Peja might opt out.

I'm sorry dawg, but this is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.</div>

There's no need to apologize. I said from the very beginning I didnt look at every possible angle and that I may have overvalued some players and undervalued others. I respect your opinion but I disagree with quite a few things you said. First of all what you said about none of the individual trades working. You dont think the Nuggets would want to trade Kenyon Martin's ridiculous contract for an expiring one? Considering he has constantly been injured the Nuggets probably wont even want anything back as long his contract is gone. Second of all if the trades could actually happen then the Knicks could simply trade with the Eastern Conference teams first and then deal with the West since the West wont care how good the Knicks get.

Third of all the Pacers did not get Sarunas just to replace Reggie's outside shooting. They could have signed his teammate from the Lithuanian National team, Arvydas Macijauskas, to do that since he is a significantly better shooter and for less money. He was brought in because of play making and ability to win. However his defense which is weak even by European standards makes him a big liability which is why he's playing behind Anthony Johnson right now(I could be wrong but last few times I watched them it looked like Johnson was ahead of him in the rotation). Fourth of all simply saying Lebron wants Big Z in Cleveland is not a very good argument. Lebron also wants a better point guard. And despite how good Lebron is, Lebron isnt running the team. The Cavaliers need for a good point guard and someone to give Lebron help in case Larry Hughes gets injured again means they have to seriously consider trading an aging center with a history of injury woes(I do believe he is injured right now)means they have to consider swapping him for Marbury to improve themselves. How many good years you think Big Z has left in him? Can you give a real reason as to why the Cavaliers wont do the trade?

As for the Wally trade scenario I said it would mostly be about dumping salary and picking up a young player. The Celtics are in the middle of a youth movement I dont think they particularly care who's good as much as they care about getting salary cap space and young talent. You could be right about the Supersonics trade not happening. But it is by no means ridiculous. The Supersonics have very good reason to do it. Like I said I respect your opinion but you are wrong to say that these trades are impossible. Improbable? Probably. Impossible? No.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Chutney]

I think the Sarunas for James trade is the most unrealistic. Although he hasn't been the greatest point guard this year, he's only a rookie and I don't think the Pacers would be willing to completely give up on him. And Jerome James, especially with that monstrous contract, is a player that nobody would be willing to take on.

It might be against the rebuilding philosophy, but if the Knicks want to speed up the process, they're going to have to give up draft picks.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerome James for Sarunas Jasikevicus: Jerome James makes more money than Sarunas and has a longer contract but he doesnt make a whole lot more money and his contract runs on only one year longer than Sarunas'. The Pacers do this deal because they dont really need Sarunas. He's a third string point guard to them because of his poor defense. However Larry Brown will love his attitude and his ability to run a team. Jerome James gives the Pacers someone to replace Pollard, some sort of insurance in case Jermaine Oneal gets injured again and another big body throw at Shaq. Looks like a fair trade for both teams.</div>
This trade really has no chance in happening. For the Pacers to even consider accepting this we would need to throw in at least two first round draft picks. Jerome James is 30, making 30 million, and is averaging 3 points and 2 rebounds. Sarunas, despite being 30 himself is the better player by far and is making much less money. Even if the Pacers wanted to get an insurance center, there are much better centers who happen to be cheaper than James.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Stephon Marbury for Zydrunas Ilgauskas: Not sure if the Cavaliers would do this one. Their searching for a better point guard than Eric Snow. Marbury for all of his faults is a much better point guard than Snow. Big Z has a history of injury problems and isnt getting any younger so the Cavaliers may be willing to trade him for Marbury. The Knicks will be able to get rid of Marbury and bring in a more consistent low post scorer, rebounder and intimidator. Damon Jones can be thrown in as a filler to make the deal work.</div>
Contrary to the popular belief, Marbury has no problems passing the ball and playing alongside James, he might average 10+ assists. With that said, a good point guard is easier to come across than a good center. Big Z, in my opinion, would be much more valuable to the Cavs than Marbury even though Marbury is the better player. The Cavs would be ridiculously thin upfront and Gooden, a free agent this summer, could be leaving this year.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson for Ray Allen and Earl Watson (and first round pick?): With Big Z on board there wont be a need for Eddy Curry so we'd be able to shop him around for a shooting guard. This trade is probably less likely the Big Z deal but still possible I think. Ray Allen is getting up there in age and the Supersonics dont appear to be anywhere near contending again. I also hear their having problems selling tickets. So it makes sense for them to start rebuilding. And what better way to rebuild and sell tickets at the same than to bring in a young talented center dripping with potential along with two hometown heroes? The Supersonics exchange the older Ray Allen for the much younger hometown favorite Jamal Crawford. They also get Seattle's own Nate Robinson, the slam dunk champion to help boost attendance and a young center with loads of potential to go along Chris Wilcox. Earl Watson is thrown into the deal because of his contract and to make room for Ridnour and Robinson. With this trade the Supersonics will be able to start an all out youth movement. I dont think I have to explain why the Knicks would do this trade.</div>
The Ray Allen trade might be able to go down because of the hometown prospects and the talent, but I would rather keep my young guys for an old, declining Ray Allen.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jalen Rose and David Lee for Wally Szczerbiak and Brian Scalabrine: The Celtics get to dump salary and add another player to their youth core. The Knicks get a premier shooter.(Another possibility is Rose and Lee to the Magic for Grant Hill)</div>
I don’t like this trade scenario at all. Szczerbiak is ridiculously overpaid and doesn’t give us anything that Jalen Rose doesn’t. In fact, Rose can be considered the better player, although Wally is younger. We also give up David Lee for nothing. So, Boston gives up a good shooter who is overpaid and an overpaid 12th man for an above average shooter who has an expiring contract and an impressive rookie with a pretty decent future in this league. How do we benefit out of this trade again? The Grant Hill thing makes no sense for us either since both Rose and Hill will be expiring and Rose is just as productive and less injury prone as Hill. We also give up Lee for nothing again too.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maurice Taylor for Kenyon Martin: Kenyon Martin is probably the most overpaid player in the league for what he brings to the table. That alone should be enough for the Nuggets to do this trade. Kenyon Martin even though he makes way too much money and I mean way too much money would give the Knicks toughness and do the dirty work like play defense, rebound the ball and get garbage points.</div>
Despite being ridiculously overpaid, Martin is still somewhat productive for the Nuggets whereas Taylor does nothing. We actually offered the Nuggets Penny, but they wanted picks and/or some of our rookies for him. I doubt things will change.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Steve Francis for Theo Ratliff, Brian Skinner and 2007 pick: May give the Trailblazers a chance to get into the playoffs which would help them convince Joel Pryzbilla to stay. Gives the Knicks a shot blocker off the bench in Ratliff and insurance on Kenyon Martin in Brian Skinner.</div>
I think we can get a bit more for Francis than Skinner, Ratliff, and a draft pick. I like the fact we get two shot blockers, though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Use the MLE to sign Matt Harpring: Harpring is very underrated. He is a Larry Brown type player. We'd be able to bring him off the bench to provide scoring, rebounding, defense and toughness.</div>
For some reason I’m under the impression Harpring is a bad defender. I must be honest and say I haven’t watched him much, but reading about him at 82games, he doesn’t seem to be a good defender.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Seattle pick: Tiago Splitter(leave in Europe)
Trade Frye to Atlanta for 2006 pick: Draft Bargnani(leave in Europe)
Trade Richardson to New Orleans for their 2006 pick: Corey Brewer
Trade our 2007 pick to Chicago for the 2006 pick: Draft Ronnie Brewer
Denver pick: Sergio Rodriguez(make him a promise leave in Europe)</div>
Not a bad draft, although I think Q would need to prove himself more before New Orleans trades a pick for him. He’s shot horribly and has some uninsured injury problems.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When the season begins the Knicks line up should look like this:

PG- Sarunas Jasikevicus, Earl Watson, Damon Jones
SG- Ray Allen, Ronnie Brewer
SF- Wally World, Matt Harpring, Corey Brewer
PF- K-Mart, Brian Skinner, Malik Rose
C- Big Z, Theo Ratliff

A pretty good team it looks like. It looks capable of decent defense. The players should mesh well with Big Z scoring and drawing double teams in the low post, Allen and Wally knocking down open jumpers, K Mart doing the dirty work and Sarunas just ochestrating. The bench looks pretty nice. No egos work out. And the players will listen to Larry Brown. This team should be able to compete against anybody. So what do you guys think?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired and Tribute to H2O hired.</div>
On paper, it looks pretty good and it might actually work out, but I seriously doubt those trades get accepted. They just don’t seem very realistic, Tribute. We would have to give up a lot more to get some of those players let alone all of them on the same team.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">i know you took a long time to think and write this, but as jurassic said, most of it isnt realist.

if the pacers needed a big body to be able to throw at shaq, they can easily find one in the free agency market, consider they have tons of money. if anything, they can get a better big man than overpaid, out of shape, no work ethic jerome james for jasikevicus. although jasikevicus isnt a star, he has proven he has a good shot and the pacers can get something good for him.

the stephon marbury trade is just craziness. why in the world would the cavs trade away a valuable big man in ilgauskas for steph, who is overpaid and needs the ball to dominate. with already a roster of lebron and hughes, he wont get a lot of touches. of course there is the argument that ilgauskas is injury prone, but for this season, he has stayed relatively healthy. also, you never trade a big for a small.

i have no idea why seattle would except the trade for ray allen. as you stated, they are in rebuilding stage, so why in the world would they trade for crawford and curry? two players who gets paid tons of money. id rather just keep ray allen. also, you said that they are in rebuilding stage, so why trade away a first round pick? earl watson is a very talented player, and if you put him along with ray allen and a first, you can get a lot more than just curry and crawford and nate.

the jalen rose and david lee trade is most realistic, but i cant see it happening. sure, the celtics dump brian and wally's huge contract in return for an expiring one and lee, a promising rookie. but how many younsters do you need? last i checked, the celtics have al jefferson, perkins, and ryan gomes. already three promising rookies that play the same position as lee.

maurice taylor for kenyon martin? you are kidding. do i even need to elaborate? martin is overpaid and overrated, yes, but it doesnt take away the fact that he is a good player. taylor is nothing. he is a scrub. given the nuggets situation, they should be built ready to win. they are in no rebuilding stage. please think.

steve francis to portland for skinner, ratliff, and 07 pick. wtf? last i checked portland already has a log jam at the point guard position. they have sebastian telfair and jarret jack. they are already having problems with minutes, not to mention you bring in steve francis. point guard is the position the blazers should be least concerned about.

as for the draft picks. where to start? why in the world would you trade away a proven, young big in channing frye for a first round pick? this draft isnt deep at all, and frye is the only reason to get the knicks excited about.

the q rich deal isnt realistic either. why would the hornets trade their draft pick for an overpaid, injury prone player in richardson? it doesnt make sense. richardson gets paid too much for what he does.

also, why in the world would chicago swap picks for next season? last i checked they have a good chance of getting #1 overall.

with that said, im sorry if i offended you, but you should try to think from the perspective of the other team, not just the knicks</div>

I hate double posting but oh well...you're probably right about the Sarunas trade. As for the others...I think you're wrong.

First of all the Marbury trade: I pretty much stated it in my earlier post. Big Z has a history of injury problems and doesnt have too many years left in him. That's not saying he's a bad player. He's very good but the Cavaliers also need a point guard badly. I think they'd be willing to part with an aging center who may only have a 2 or 3 good years left for a relatively young point guard. I guess it just comes down to what the Cavaliers would rather have. But they are going to have to improve the point guard position to have any real success in the post season.

Seattle trade: The trade helps Seattle with their rebuilding because it gives them Crawford who is about 6 years younger than Ray Allen(not sure their ages exactly), Nate Robinson and another young low post player in Eddy Curry to team up with Chris Wilcox. The Supersonics dont appear to be going anywhere with Ray Allen at this point. The idea is they just give up on him and truly commit to rebuilding(I cant see how they can truly rebuild with Ray Allen). They may not get capspace but they do get young talent. If Curry and Crawford keep playing the way they've been playing recently I think the deal becomes very possible all things considered. You're right about the draft pick though. They'd probably insist on keeping it.

New Orleans trade: The general consensus is that this is a weak draft. Richardson gives them a player that can come in immediately and make an impact. This is probably the most doable of all the trades.

Frye trade: I want Bargnani and I'd sell my soul to get him, let alone a pick and pop big man.

Denver trade: Are you kidding me??? Kenyon Martin has proven to the world that he is nowhere near the money he's worth. Nene(and maybe even Klieza in a few years) can probably do everything(possibly more) he can do for less money and without the games missed. And I dont think they gave Kenyon Martin a 92 million dollar contract to sit on the bench. There is no way the Nuggets would pass on a chance to get rid of Kenyon. They'd probably trade him for a bag of chips if it came with an expiring contract.

Chicago trade: I meant trade our 2007 pick which will either be ours or theirs(if they swap) for their 2006 pick(not ours).

Portland trade: Actually you're probably right about that too. They could always play Francis at shooting guard.

Boston trade: They could always try to convert Ryan Gomes or David Lee into a small forward.

No need to apologize. I'm not offended. I expected these types of responses.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Really Lost One]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">
First of all the Marbury trade: I pretty much stated it in my earlier post. Big Z has a history of injury problems and doesnt have too many years left in him. That's not saying he's a bad player. He's very good but the Cavaliers also need a point guard badly. I think they'd be willing to part with an aging center who may only have a 2 or 3 good years left for a relatively young point guard. I guess it just comes down to what the Cavaliers would rather have. But they are going to have to improve the point guard position to have any real success in the post season.</div>

well, steph isnt exactly young.........

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Seattle trade: The trade helps Seattle with their rebuilding because it gives them Crawford who is about 6 years younger than Ray Allen(not sure their ages exactly), Nate Robinson and another young low post player in Eddy Curry to team up with Chris Wilcox. The Supersonics dont appear to be going anywhere with Ray Allen at this point. The idea is they just give up on him and truly commit to rebuilding(I cant see how they can truly rebuild with Ray Allen). They may not get capspace but they do get young talent. If Curry and Crawford keep playing the way they've been playing recently I think the deal becomes very possible all things considered. You're right about the draft pick though. They'd probably insist on keeping it.</div>

i dont understand. you said seattle was rebuilding, so why take on two huge contracts?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Frye trade: I want Bargnani and I'd sell my soul to get him, let alone a pick and pop big man.</div>

i dont think its too smart, but then again its your opinion

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Denver trade: Are you kidding me??? Kenyon Martin has proven to the world that he is nowhere near the money he's worth. Nene(and maybe even Klieza in a few years) can probably do everything(possibly more) he can do for less money and without the games missed. And I dont think they gave Kenyon Martin a 92 million dollar contract to sit on the bench. There is no way the Nuggets would pass on a chance to get rid of Kenyon. They'd probably trade him for a bag of chips if it came with an expiring contract. </div>

no, i actually dont think so. i know kenyon is overpaid and such, but i still think the nuggets want him to be part of their team. he is a great rebounder and a banger down low. the nuggets are in great position to win, and i just dont see them trading him away for an expiring contract. you made a good point with nene, and im not saying it wont happen, but if i were the gm of the nuggets, i would not accept the trade

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Portland trade: Actually you're probably right about that too. They could always play Francis at shooting guard.</div>

francis, telfair, and jack.........log jam. could happen, but portland has to make some trades

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>

agreed!

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">well, steph isnt exactly young.........</div>

I mean compared to Big Z. Marbury has quite a few more years in the tank than Big Z in my opinion. Like I said before it pretty much depends on how many good years Cleveland management thinks he can give them and how badly they want a good point guard and how unhappy Big Z is(I heard he wasnt happy about something).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont understand. you said seattle was rebuilding, so why take on two huge contracts?</div>

The difference is their also getting rid of a couple of big contracts. And adding a young low post player with tons of potential, a young shooting guard with potential and Nate Robinson who will at the very least be exciting. It doesnt hurt that Crawford and Robinson are both from Seattle as well. Ray Allen is obviously the best player in the deal but he is in his thirties and you cant rebuild with a thirty year old. Get me now? I wouldnt do this deal if I couldnt get Big Z though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think its too smart, but then again its your opinion</div>

I just think Bargnani is going to be the next big thing. So often you hear about these European big men becoming the next Dirk but I think Bargnani is legit. He's going to start the European big man craze all over again in a few years and I want him to be a Knick when he does.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">no, i actually dont think so. i know kenyon is overpaid and such, but i still think the nuggets want him to be part of their team. he is a great rebounder and a banger down low. the nuggets are in great position to win, and i just dont see them trading him away for an expiring contract. you made a good point with nene, and im not saying it wont happen, but if i were the gm of the nuggets, i would not accept the trade</div>

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then since if I was the General Manger I'd do everything in my power to get rid of him and give his minutes to Nene and Klieza.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">francis, telfair, and jack.........log jam. could happen, but portland has to make some trades</div>

I guess.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">agreed!</div>

Finally!


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Drake Remoray]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">
Third of all the Pacers did not get Sarunas just to replace Reggie's outside shooting. They could have signed his teammate from the Lithuanian National team, Arvydas Macijauskas, to do that since he is a significantly better shooter and for less money. He was brought in because of play making and ability to win. However his defense which is weak even by European standards makes him a big liability which is why he's playing behind Anthony Johnson right now(I could be wrong but last few times I watched them it looked like Johnson was ahead of him in the rotation). Fourth of all simply saying Lebron wants Big Z in Cleveland is not a very good argument. Lebron also wants a better point guard. And despite how good Lebron is, Lebron isnt running the team. The Cavaliers need for a good point guard and someone to give Lebron help in case Larry Hughes gets injured again means they have to seriously consider trading an aging center with a history of injury woes(I do believe he is injured right now)means they have to consider swapping him for Marbury to improve themselves. How many good years you think Big Z has left in him? Can you give a real reason as to why the Cavaliers wont do the trade?

Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>

I think you are really undervalueing Jasikevicus's ability. Originally wasn't part of the acquistion of Sarunas to ease the loss of Miller's 3-pt scoring and to bring in veteran leadership skills? Didn't he break the team record for 3-pt field goals this year? He's a winner and he's very intelligent. Two important things that jerome James isn't showing. Saraunas has been doing a fairly good job for the team when he has played point. He knows how to make plays, is smart with the ball, and makes good decisions (as seen from his assist-turnover ratio). They've been using him a lot at the off guard during the season where it doesn't seem like he's been comfortable. His poor defense (which he has compensated for with his intelligence) isn't nearly as poor as Jerome James' has been. There is no way that Indiana would make a deal straight up like that.

The Cavs don't make the deal for Stephon because they want LeBron James with the ball in his hands to make things happen. If they get a point guard it would be a distributor. Zydrunas is one of the NBA's top centers. If the Cavs want a scoring point guard, they should take a crack at Mike James. Marbury for Ilgauskas is absolutely ridiculous from a financial standpoint. Marbury makes a bit less than double what Zydrunas makes this year alone. Why would you want him tying up you resources when his contract later ballons towards and past 20 million in a year?

I can see why you would have NY trying to send Francis to Portland. It could work, as long as NY takes one of Portland's point guards off their hands. If I was Portland I would keep the defense and draft for the offensive punch.

The David Lee/Jalen Rose and Wallyworld/Scalabrine one seems the most realistic one.

With the Sonics trade, you commented about them not winning and having trouble selling tickets. Why would they trade their only superstar/team leader away for lesser talent? If they are having trouble winning now, imagine them after that trade? The trade hinges a lot of Eddy Curry but does his presence in the low post bring that much game changing ability compared to Allen's? Why not draft a bigman that could develop that low post presence? Cheaper at the very least.

A lot of your trades for draft pick really undervalues/overvalues a lot of players. Q-Rich for a draft pick? Why would NOK do that deal? Why not take the draft pick (possibly use their 2 to trade up) and keep the money and try to land someone in the 2007 Free Agency? Channing Fyre for an unproven draft pick, with questions about his defense (Can he keep up with Small forwards, does he have the strength to keep up with NBA posts?) ?

Also, with how Larry Brown feels about rookies and his attitude towards them, you have the Knicks pillaging the 2006 draft and not even taking the one pick Brown's stated he likes.

I don't know, I'm not feeling you on a lot of the trades here.

 

[Jurassic]

H20 you keep saying that Isiah needs to be fired, but in your first post you suggested that he trade Maurice Taylor for Kmart. Why would he want another overpaid underacheiver?

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drake Remoray:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you are really undervalueing Jasikevicus's ability. Originally wasn't part of the acquistion of Sarunas to ease the loss of Miller's 3-pt scoring and to bring in veteran leadership skills? Didn't he break the team record for 3-pt field goals this year? He's a winner and he's very intelligent. Two important things that jerome James isn't showing. Saraunas has been doing a fairly good job for the team when he has played point. He knows how to make plays, is smart with the ball, and makes good decisions (as seen from his assist-turnover ratio). They've been using him a lot at the off guard during the season where it doesn't seem like he's been comfortable. His poor defense (which he has compensated for with his intelligence) isn't nearly as poor as Jerome James' has been. There is no way that Indiana would make a deal straight up like that.

The Cavs don't make the deal for Stephon because they want LeBron James with the ball in his hands to make things happen. If they get a point guard it would be a distributor. Zydrunas is one of the NBA's top centers. If the Cavs want a scoring point guard, they should take a crack at Mike James. Marbury for Ilgauskas is absolutely ridiculous from a financial standpoint. Marbury makes a bit less than double what Zydrunas makes this year alone. Why would you want him tying up you resources when his contract later ballons towards and past 20 million in a year?

I can see why you would have NY trying to send Francis to Portland. It could work, as long as NY takes one of Portland's point guards off their hands. If I was Portland I would keep the defense and draft for the offensive punch.

The David Lee/Jalen Rose and Wallyworld/Scalabrine one seems the most realistic one.

With the Sonics trade, you commented about them not winning and having trouble selling tickets. Why would they trade their only superstar/team leader away for lesser talent? If they are having trouble winning now, imagine them after that trade? The trade hinges a lot of Eddy Curry but does his presence in the low post bring that much game changing ability compared to Allen's? Why not draft a bigman that could develop that low post presence? Cheaper at the very least.

A lot of your trades for draft pick really undervalues/overvalues a lot of players. Q-Rich for a draft pick? Why would NOK do that deal? Why not take the draft pick (possibly use their 2 to trade up) and keep the money and try to land someone in the 2007 Free Agency? Channing Fyre for an unproven draft pick, with questions about his defense (Can he keep up with Small forwards, does he have the strength to keep up with NBA posts?) ?

Also, with how Larry Brown feels about rookies and his attitude towards them, you have the Knicks pillaging the 2006 draft and not even taking the one pick Brown's stated he likes.

I don't know, I'm not feeling you on a lot of the trades here.</div>

On the contrary I think Sarunas is a good player. I just question Carlisle's willingness to use him because of his poor defense. But I've long since admitted that Jerome James for Sarunas doesnt make sense for Indiana.

As for the Big Z deal I can see your point especially financially. But I just get the feeling that the Cavaliers' desire for a good point guard will get them to trade Big Z for it. As good as Big Z is there are things that lower his value. Like his history of injuries. Then there's the fact he doesnt look like he can play at his current level much longer. How much longer do you think he'll play as well as he is now? If he didnt have a history of injuries and if he looked like he could play another five years at a high level then the deal probably would be ridiculous. But all things considered I think it's a fair trade. Marbury for virtually his entire career has been an iron man as opposed to Big Z who has been the opposite. He'll also be able to play at a high level for years to come. I dont think the Cavaliers want a pure distributor as much as a point guard who is a legitimate scoring threat himself that can create shots for himself and others.

I'm going to rethink the Francis to Portland trade.

Now about the Supersonics trade: They trade away their best player to start fully rebuilding. Ray Allen is over thirty. He cannot be a part of any rebuilding process simply because he is too old which is why the Supersonics would trade him. Crawford and Curry are both young players with potential who can help with the rebuilding process. I'll say it again: The Supersonics cannot rebuild with Ray Allen. So if they decide to rebuild why not trade him for younger players with potential that can help with rebuilding? Crawford and Robinson help with the ticket sales because their both from Seattle and because Robinson is just an exciting guy to watch. Understand now?

Actually I'm not undervaluing or overvaluing anything. I like this draft. I wouldnt trade my pick for Richardson if I was running the Hornets. I just hear people say that this is a very weak draft so I assume that they'd be willing to give up picks to get proven players who can help immediately. As for trading Frye to get Bargnani, I want Bargnani. That really is it. His upside is tremendous whereas Frye's appears to be pretty limited. There really arent any serious questions about his defense. He'll certainly be able to defend the powerforward position and I've even heard some people say he'll be a better defender than Dirk. I think Tyrus Thomas is going to go too high for the Knicks and he looks eerily similiar to Stromile Swift.

It's okay. You certainly are not alone. I'll just rethink a few of them.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">H20 you keep saying that Isiah needs to be fired, but in your first post you suggested that he trade Maurice Taylor for Kmart. Why would he want another overpaid underacheiver?</div>

I was just trying to get as many players for as little as possible without thinking about the contracts. I wouldnt want him to trade an expiring contract for Kenyon Martin unless it was part of some bigger plan and he needed a player like Kenyon Martin to get the plan done.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Really Lost One]

back to the seattle trade, you were right. allen is in his 30s and the sonics would have a lot of trouble rebuilding with him. i WOULD trade allen for crawford, curry, and nate, but there is one problem. like i have said, there contracts are huge and run for a long time. with that being said, if the knicks were to trade for them, they would have a tough time trying to sign free agents and such. what i think the sonics will end up doing is sort of like what orlando did when they traded francis over. i think they will be looking to trade for some expiring contracts and cheap young talent.

 

[j0se]

Eddie Jones has a nice expiring contract.

 

[NTC]

1. Those trades would <u>never</u> happen.

2. You went on about how most of the guys they would be trading for are either old, injured or overpaid (and almost all of those players you suggested are in those categories), so why would you want them?

3. Yes Isiah Thomas should be fired, and quickly.

 

[02civic]

I agree Isiah should be fired......but dont count on Dolan giving you the job.

kidding


think out the trades more though cause i dont think any of them are close to being possible.

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">
The Ray Allen trade might be able to go down because of the hometown prospects and the talent, but I would rather keep my young guys for an old, declining Ray Allen.</div>

The Ray Allen trade wouldn't go down for a number of reasons.

Firstly, Eddy Curry is rubbish. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't play defense and he is lazy and stupidly overpaid. I would take Robert Swift or Johan Petro over him individually, and when we have both, not to mention Collison and probably Wilcox, taking on Curry's deal makes no sense at all.

Jamal Crawford isn't fit to lick Ray's boots. Ray Allen is a consistent superstar, Crawford is a streaky shooter who just happens to come from Seattle. He is also stupidly overpaid - I'm noticing a trend here. You don't trade Ray Allen away unless you're getting a top three pick or a legitimate superstar back.

Earl Watson gives us exactly what we need at the point: a level headed leader who plays defense. Apart from the hometown connections, what exactly would he bring us? A shoot first 5'6 guard who is hardly going to be able to bring the D and composure that Earl brings and that we need behind Luke, that's what.

You're not as deluded about New York on the court anymore it seems (remember how Jerome James was a changed man? He said it himself!), but you're still an idiot.

 

[Really Lost One]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">.

Firstly, Eddy Curry is rubbish. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't play defense and he is lazy and stupidly overpaid. I would take Robert Swift or Johan Petro over him individually, and when we have both, not to mention Collison and probably Wilcox, taking on Curry's deal makes no sense at all.


</div>

dont forget about his huge contract as well

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">dont forget about his huge contract as well</div>

I thought I covered that with the 'stupidly overpaid' line.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">The Ray Allen trade wouldn't go down for a number of reasons.

Firstly, Eddy Curry is rubbish. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't play defense and he is lazy and stupidly overpaid. I would take Robert Swift or Johan Petro over him individually, and when we have both, not to mention Collison and probably Wilcox, taking on Curry's deal makes no sense at all.

Jamal Crawford isn't fit to lick Ray's boots. Ray Allen is a consistent superstar, Crawford is a streaky shooter who just happens to come from Seattle. He is also stupidly overpaid - I'm noticing a trend here. You don't trade Ray Allen away unless you're getting a top three pick or a legitimate superstar back.

Earl Watson gives us exactly what we need at the point: a level headed leader who plays defense. Apart from the hometown connections, what exactly would he bring us? A shoot first 5'6 guard who is hardly going to be able to bring the D and composure that Earl brings and that we need behind Luke, that's what.

You're not as deluded about New York on the court anymore it seems (remember how Jerome James was a changed man? He said it himself!), but you're still an idiot.</div>
First of all, I didn?t make these trade scenarios. I said out of all the ones mentioned, this probably has the best chance of actually happening because of the hometown players and the young talent. As for the Jerome James thing, I remember saying it was a risky move but I?ll only call it bad when I see him play in a Knick uniform. Nice try though.

Btw, I thought you finally hopped off my jock already. I guess I?m just too sexy for you, huh?

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, I didn’t make these trade scenarios. I said out of all the ones mentioned, this probably has the best chance of actually happening because of the hometown players and the young talent.</div>

You also said you wouldn't do it because you'd want to keep your young players. That is ludicrous, as anyone would absolutely jump at that deal if they were the Knicks.

Secondly, if best chance of happening means absolutely no chance in hell of happening, then you're right. It doesn't benefit the Sonics in any way, and it makes us a worse team both in the present and in the future.

If we want hometown players, we should trade the kitchen sink to get a couple of top seven picks for Morrison and Roy, and then sign Jason Terry as a FA. It means SFA, even if we are struggling with attendances.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">You also said you wouldn't do it because you'd want to keep your young players. That is ludicrous, as anyone would absolutely jump at that deal if they were the Knicks.</div>
Well, we lose Curry and have no one to man center but Jeomre James and Jackie Butler. We also lose Crawford who has been playing well under Brown and a promising rookie in Nate Robinson. I don't know about you, but I'd rather keep these young players then trade for a declining Ray Allen who demands the ball just as much as these "selfish players" in New York.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Secondly, if best chance of happening means absolutely no chance in hell of happening, then you're right. It doesn't benefit the Sonics in any way, and it makes us a worse team both in the present and in the future.</div>
Again, I didn't make the trade scenario.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If we want hometown players, we should trade the kitchen sink to get a couple of top seven picks for Morrison and Roy, and then sign Jason Terry as a FA. It means SFA, even if we are struggling with attendances.</div>
Again, I didn't make the trade scenario.

 

[Sir Desmond]

I know you didn't make the trade scenario, but you responded to it in a way that seemed to imply it favoured Seattle, which is what I called you out on. It is a horrible trade for the Supes.

Butler > Curry, anyway.

 

[02civic]

If you wouldnt trade Curry, Crawford and Nate for Ray Allen you probably shouldnt apply for any GM positions any time soon. Not only is Ray 10x better than any of the players the Knicks would be sending over, but New York would be getting rid of 2 bad contracts players. Personally Curry and Crawford for expiring contracts would be GODLY....i think those 2 for a franchise player's abit lobsided

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">I know you didn't make the trade scenario, but you responded to it in a way that seemed to imply it favoured Seattle, which is what I called you out on. It is a horrible trade for the Supes.</div>
I don't like it for the Sonics nor do I like it for the Knicks.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Butler > Curry, anyway.</div>
I like Butler too, but he's way too foul prone and isn't reliant enough to be a fulltime starter.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">If you wouldnt trade Curry, Crawford and Nate for Ray Allen you probably shouldnt apply for any GM positions any time soon. Not only is Ray 10x better than any of the players the Knicks would be sending over, but New York would be getting rid of 2 bad contracts players. Personally Curry and Crawford for expiring contracts would be GODLY....i think those 2 for a franchise player's abit lobsided</div>
You claim the Knicks are full of selfish, me-first players, so what does it do adding another selfish, me-first player? Only adds more problems to an already shaky chemistry, creating an even bigger mess, right? Allen is getting 80 million and is turning 31 soon. That doesn't quite fit the rebuilding mode that you said we should go in. In addition, Crawford has played very well and I don't want to get rid of Curry after giving up so much for him in just one season. Nate Robinson has been promising and is a Knick you can count on for giving 100% effort every night. Excuse me for not wanting to go in the youth direction.

 

[Sir Desmond]

The difference between Ray Allen and the Knicks' 'selfish, me-first' players is that Ray is worthy of getting the ball as much as he does. He's proven over a number of seasons that he is capable of carrying a team offensively and can really bury teams, so I don't see why he should get the same label as guys like Crawford and Marbury, who aren't in his class.

Ray demands the ball because he's earnt the right to be able to.

 

[spyware]

+ I don't think Larry Bird would take a guy like Jerome James and Sarunas Jasikevicus is too big of an asset to the Pacers organization, especially when you regard the fact that he's only a rookie.

+ The Cavs don't need Marbury and if anything, they'll look to draft or acquire a real PG. Also, Ilgauskas' future is uncertain after this season. I thought he was returning home or something. I just don't see the Cavs making this deal, simply because Marbury has a bad rep.

+ I think the Seattle trade is absolutely ridiculous (I don't mean to sound mean). I think Ray and Earl are worth a lot more than that and you're asking for their 1st round pick also? Wow. I'm not sure "Slam Dunk Champion" makes someone a good candidate for a trade, especially when everyone knows Iguodala was robbed

+ Jalen Rose and David Lee? I wouldn't trade Lee for anything. And Jalen for Wally? A big contract after another? I don't think that would be a very good move for both clubs.

+ I think a Maurice Taylor/Carlos Boozer is more realistic.

+ The Blazers are looking to rebuild their team and somewhere along those lines, I don't think they would want to involve a player witha rep as a cancer.

Dude, you must've been lying sleepless last night thinking about this and I think any Knick fan appreciates you taking this time to write a bible and all. But dude, sorry...these moves just aren't realistic at all.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">The Ray Allen trade wouldn't go down for a number of reasons.

Firstly, Eddy Curry is rubbish. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't play defense and he is lazy and stupidly overpaid. I would take Robert Swift or Johan Petro over him individually, and when we have both, not to mention Collison and probably Wilcox, taking on Curry's deal makes no sense at all.

Jamal Crawford isn't fit to lick Ray's boots. Ray Allen is a consistent superstar, Crawford is a streaky shooter who just happens to come from Seattle. He is also stupidly overpaid - I'm noticing a trend here. You don't trade Ray Allen away unless you're getting a top three pick or a legitimate superstar back.

Earl Watson gives us exactly what we need at the point: a level headed leader who plays defense. Apart from the hometown connections, what exactly would he bring us? A shoot first 5'6 guard who is hardly going to be able to bring the D and composure that Earl brings and that we need behind Luke, that's what.

You're not as deluded about New York on the court anymore it seems (remember how Jerome James was a changed man? He said it himself!), but you're still an idiot.</div>


I saw Swift play, he's a scrub to the max. Petro is good.