Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

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This is crazy. Dude murders someone then comes back later and murders the news reporters covering the story. Then murders a kid to top it off


 
There's likely 100's of snippets, old sayings, sound bites, etc., supporting both sides of this argument. And much like prohibition, more gun laws won't have the intended sweeping effect. And just like alcohol, people will always find a way to obtain guns, both legally or illegally.

But IMO, the root of our gun problem has more to do with our culture, and until we seriously address that, gun violence and mass murders will be part of life in the USA.


...just my 2 cents.
 
yankeesince59 said:
There's likely 100's of snippets, old sayings, sound bites, etc., supporting both sides of this argument. And much like prohibition, more gun laws won't have the intended sweeping effect. And just like alcohol, people will always find a way to obtain guns, both legally or illegally.

But IMO, the root of our gun problem has more to do with our culture, and until we seriously address that, gun violence and mass murders will be part of life in the USA.


...just my 2 cents.
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Bingo
 
Phatguysrule said:
Except the guns don't make a significant difference. You're acting like they do, while I've shown repeatedly that gun restrictions don't make much of a difference. Otherwise we'd be seeing lower rates of gun crime here in Oregon and Portland. But we're seeing the opposite.

You're going to have to focus on other things if you actually want to reduce violent crime and murder rates. Including mass murders and mass shootings.
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I always said we need to focus on multiple solutions and avenues at once, that there are many issues involved here. But, yes access to guns are one of them.
 
Chris Craig said:
I always said we need to focus on multiple solutions and avenues at once, that there are many issues involved here. But, yes access to guns are one of them.
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I understand you feel that way, but without changing our culture first (which would require vast changes to the US social safety net) that's highly unlikely.

Like access to alcohol or drugs, this is not something we can realistically control.

You can actually make guns and ammunition faster than you can make alcohol or grow marijuana. If a hundred million people in a democracy want something that tens of thousands of people enjoy making from scratch, prohibition is simply a suggestion that results in more harm than good.

This has been proven repeatedly throughout our history.

I'm not suggesting there should be no laws regarding guns. Simply that trying to restrict what law abiding citizens do with their guns or trying to eliminate guns which tens of millions of law abiding citizens already own is an exercise in futility.

So, painting commonly owned guns or law abiding gun owners as THE problem comes off as emotional, illogical, and incredibly politically motivated. Thereby counterproductive.
 
Can we at least get some reform around the marketing and advertising of firearms? Maybe take a page out of the advertising laws for tobacco products. Instead of a picture of lungs that are black and tarry on cigarettes, maybe a picture of the Uvalde scene on any new AR. Idk. I'm just sick of seeing these tragedies seemingly everyday.
 
Shaboid said:
Can we at least get some reform around the marketing and advertising of firearms? Maybe take a page out of the advertising laws for tobacco products. Instead of a picture of lungs that are black and tarry on cigarettes, maybe a picture of the Uvalde scene on any new AR. Idk. I'm just sick of seeing these tragedies seemingly everyday.
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I think we're getting something like that. Remington had to pay tens of millions because of predatory advertising. I would expect that will be the case moving forward and gun manufacturers will be far more responsible with their advertising. But cigarettes and guns aren't the same. If you smoke your whole life you will eventually die from it. That's not true of guns.

If we want to reduce the incidence of violent crime and murder in our country it's going to take a lot more than prohibition, which history has shown, generally leads to increases in violent crime and murder.

I agree it is a serious problem and I agree it needs to be addressed. I simply think we should look at methods which have been proven to have the most impact.

As far as I'm concerned, the efforts from the DNC favored candidates (Clinton, Biden, etc) to focus on guns are a way to keep people from putting more pressure on actual social reforms like universal healthcare and increased access to education (which the DNC has sold out on, IMO).

It's just a red herring.
 
What about movies, video games, TV shows, etc?.....not mention gangs and drugs. They're all part of it.
 
yankeesince59 said:
What about movies, video games, TV shows, etc?.....not mention gangs and drugs. They're all part of it.
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I don't think you can get away with that, and honestly I don't think it would make much of a difference. Nobody in their right mind wants to kill somebody because of a video game or movie.

We should be focusing on preventing people from getting to that mindset in the first place.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think we're getting something like that. Remington had to pay tens of millions because of predatory advertising. I would expect that will be the case moving forward and gun manufacturers will be far more responsible with their advertising. But cigarettes and guns aren't the same. If you smoke your whole life you will eventually die from it. That's not true of guns.

If we want to reduce the incidence of violent crime and murder in our country it's going to take a lot more than prohibition, which history has shown, generally leads to increases in violent crime and murder.

I agree it is a serious problem and I agree it needs to be addressed. I simply think we should look at methods which have been proven to have the most impact.

As far as I'm concerned, the efforts from the DNC favored candidates (Clinton, Biden, etc) to focus on guns are a way to keep people from putting more pressure on actual social reforms like universal healthcare and increased access to education (which the DNC has sold out on, IMO).

It's just a red herring.
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I did not claim tobacco and firearms are the same.

I don't believe my suggestion was prohibition.
 
Shaboid said:
I did not claim tobacco and firearms are the same.

I don't believe my suggestion was prohibition.
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I didn't mean to imply you did. I wasn't intending to be argumentative.

I was simply clarifying my position. Which I feel is necessary as much as my position has been attacked or mischaracterized in this thread. Not to be argumentative, but just to be sure my stance is clearly communicated.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I didn't mean to imply you did. I wasn't intending to be argumentative.

I was simply clarifying my position.
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It just didn't really apply to my suggestion. No worries. Your position on this topic is quite clear in this thread lol
 
Shaboid said:
It just didn't really apply to my suggestion. No worries. Your position on this topic is quite clear in this thread lol
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Understood. But the cigarette comparison was brought up somewhat recently in this thread, so it seemed relevant to address here is well.

Again, not intending to be argumentative, just explaining my reasoning.
 
yankeesince59 said:
What about movies, video games, TV shows, etc?.....not mention gangs and drugs. They're all part of it.
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its-a-me-mario.gif
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think you can get away with that, and honestly I don't think it would make much of a difference. Nobody in their right mind wants to kill somebody because of a video game or movie.

We should be focusing on preventing people from getting to that mindset in the first place.
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Disagree, I think some video games can be an influence, especially with the younger crowd...hell, many of the younger drivers I see on the interstate driving so recklessly act like it's a video game or a scene out of Fast and Furious.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Disagree, I think some video games can be an influence, especially with the younger crowd...hell, many of the younger drivers I see on the interstate driving so recklessly act like it's a video game or a scene out of Fast and Furious.
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I understand your point. It's just hard for me to equate driving fast to deliberately taking a life.
 
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