Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

[SlyPokerDog]

There’s no practical use for them, not even in a ‘tactical’ sense. They are basically a toy to make a semi auto shoot fully. You can’t aim with them. If someone was trying to mow me down i’d pray they had a bump stock because you can’t shoot for shit with them.

Didn't the Vegas shooter use a bump stock?

 

[beast blazer]

Some people seem to reflexively support any gun control law that gets passed. And lefties have this weird smug sense of superiority that they are smart enough to realize how bad guns are.

The vast majority of gun violence takes place in the inner cities, democrat run areas, some of which have the strictest gun control laws in the nation, and they have the highest rates of violence of all.

So we're looking at cultural issues, not lack of gun laws.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Some people seem to reflexively support any gun control law that gets passed. And lefties have this weird smug sense of superiority that they are smart enough to realize how bad guns are.

The vast majority of gun violence takes place in the inner cities, democrat run areas, some of which have the strictest gun control laws in the nation, and they have the highest rates of violence of all.

So we're looking at cultural issues, not lack of gun laws.

So you support no gun control laws?

 

[beast blazer]

So you support no gun control laws?

Not none, but not like measure 114. If republicans disappeared, the 2nd amendment would be gone tomorrow.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not none, but not like measure 114. If republicans disappeared, the 2nd amendment would be gone tomorrow.

Which ones do you support?

 

[beast blazer]

Which ones do you support?

Minors shouldn't be allowed to purchase, nor those convicted of violent crimes. But criminals are still going to get their hands on guns. If we could magically make guns disappear, we'd still have violence. Humans have been committing violence long before gun powder.

While banning guns might seem realistic, you can't ban sharp/blunt objects.

Firearms, are in a sense, one of the most ethical weapons, as they act as an equalizer for those who are weaker.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Minors shouldn't be allowed to purchase, nor those convicted of violent crimes.

Only violent crimes? What about felonies like stalking, non-violent sex crimes, illegal (major amount) drug dealing?

What about illegals?

People in mental illness facilities?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Didn't the Vegas shooter use a bump stock?

He did. Which was stupid. He was a millionaire and could have easily purchased fully automatic weapons, or even less expensively purchased the parts needed to convert the guns he used into full auto. Which would have been far more accurate and easier use.

Asshole was trying to make some kind of statement, but I have no idea what that was.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Minors shouldn't be allowed to purchase, nor those convicted of violent crimes. But criminals are still going to get their hands on guns.

What about the people who legally buy guns and then sell them to criminals? Not a violent crime but enables criminals to get guns.

 

[Chris Craig]

He did. Which was stupid. He was a millionaire and could have easily purchased fully automatic weapons, or even less expensively purchased the parts needed to convert the guns he used into full auto. Which would have been far more accurate and easier use.

Asshole was trying to make some kind of statement, but I have no idea what that was.

And now someone will likely use them again for the same purpose.

 

[Chris Craig]

Minors shouldn't be allowed to purchase, nor those convicted of violent crimes. But criminals are still going to get their hands on guns. If we could magically make guns disappear, we'd still have violence. Humans have been committing violence long before gun powder.

While banning guns might seem realistic, you can't ban sharp/blunt objects.

Firearms, are in a sense, one of the most ethical weapons, as they act as an equalizer for those who are weaker.

Not only should a minor not be able to buy one. Adults should not be able to buy one for them. They can wait till they are the legal age to own one. It's illegal to buy liquor and cigarettes for minors. Buying guns for them should be illegal too.

Guns shouldn't be banned. They should be made harder for people who shouldn't have them to get them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And now someone will likely use them again for the same purpose.

Maybe. But there was nothing stopping them from doing that before...

I would suggest we do something to address the actual problem rather than trying to ban coat hangers and pipes...

 

[beast blazer]

Only violent crimes? What about felonies like stalking, non-violent sex crimes, illegal (major amount) drug dealing?

What about illegals?

People in mental illness facilities?

Crimes that involve malice and endanger others. I wouldn't say someone should lose their right to own a firearm because they shoplifted when they were a teenager. Restrictions can also be used to basically prohibit gun ownership. In some places you have to jump through so many hoops its almost impossible.

I don't hear anyone advocating for allowing criminals to own guns or for the ability to purchase artillery. It's about not wanting to allow this legislative creep. No guns with more than 10 bullets, no guns with more than 3 bullets, you can only own front loading muskets...

When the left's rhetoric is so much about how "guns" in general are the problem, that gives off a signal that your real intention is to actually get rid of them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not only should a minor not be able to buy one. Adults should not be able to buy one for them. They can wait till they are the legal age to own one. It's illegal to buy liquor and cigarettes for minors. Buying guns for them should be illegal too.

Guns shouldn't be banned. They should be made harder for people who shouldn't have them to get them.

So then no more hunting for teenagers? That would suck. Some of my favorite memories are duck hunting at the coast...

Or do you just mean they can't be registered for anyone younger than 18?

 

[Chris Craig]

So then no more hunting for teenagers? That would suck. Some of my favorite memories are duck hunting at the coast...

Or do you just mean they can't be registered for anyone younger than 18?

Registered

 

[Phatguysrule]

Only violent crimes? What about felonies like stalking, non-violent sex crimes, illegal (major amount) drug dealing?

What about illegals?

People in mental illness facilities?

What about the people who legally buy guns and then sell them to criminals? Not a violent crime but enables criminals to get guns.

A valid state ID (driver's license) should be required for all gun sales. For gun sales, the selling or loaning party should be required to verify that the ID is not firearm restricted.

If they fail to do so they will be guilty of felony firearms trafficking and will have their own ID marked with a firearm restriction (along with any other fines and consequences).

Anybody who is deemed to be dangerous should get a firearm restriction.

Any person should be allowed to appeal their firearm restriction.

You could even have a free website that anybody could use to verify the ID number you're looking at.

Almost nobody would oppose most of this. But it also wouldn't get the bases riled up enough to donate much money.

Also, if Republicans couldn't point at Democrats as gun grabbers Democrats would win virtually every election. So many Republican votes are single issue votes based on gun rights.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Registered

I'd be fine with that.

 

[Chris Craig]

A valid state ID (driver's license) should be required for all gun sales. For gun sales, the selling or loaning party should be required to verify that the ID is not firearm restricted.

If they fail to do so they will be guilty of felony firearms trafficking and will have their own ID marked with a firearm restriction (along with any other fines and consequences).

Anybody who is deemed to be dangerous should get a firearm restriction.

Any person should be allowed to appeal their firearm restriction.

You could even have a free website that anybody could use to verify the ID number you're looking at.

Almost nobody would oppose most of this. But it also wouldn't get the bases riled up enough to donate much money.

Also, if Republicans couldn't point at Democrats as gun grabbers Democrats would win virtually every election. So many Republican votes are single issue votes based on gun rights.

I'm ok with this.

Yeah, Dems like Beto saying I'm coming for the guns is not good for the party. I understand the desire for bans on certain assault rifles, but it's not likely going to happen, especially with the way its being put forth.

I think ID checks like you mentioned above, as well as the firearm restrictions on IDS for those with mental issues or felonious criminal records is a great start. That and background checks. We need something quick to implement and that would work to build morale among the people/voters.

Also, better funding of mental health and roadmaps to bring people out of poverty. I know that's hard to do in a society where the rich don't care about the poor and are only about getting richer, but healthier (mentally and physically) and happier citizens will be better workers and better consumers, with less crime and violence.

Unfortunately, though too politicians are all.about fearmongering in order to keep bases and stay in office. Shame it's not about doing the actual work, good work that a actually helps people, to stay in office instead.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm ok with this.

Yeah, Dems like Beto saying I'm coming for the guns is not good for the party. I understand the desire for bans on certain assault rifles, but it's not likely going to happen, especially with the way its being put forth.

I think ID checks like you mentioned above, as well as the firearm restrictions on IDS for those with mental issues or felonious criminal records is a great start. That and background checks. We need something quick to implement and that would work to build morale among the people/voters.

Also, better funding of mental health and roadmaps to bring people out of poverty. I know that's hard to do in a society where the rich don't care about the poor and are only about getting richer, but healthier (mentally and physically) and happier citizens will be better workers and better consumers, with less crime and violence.

Unfortunately, though too politicians are all.about fearmongering in order to keep bases and stay in office. Shame it's not about doing the actual work, good work that a actually helps people, to stay in office instead.

I agree with all of this. The access to mental healthcare and more mental health professionals in schools would be huge. Really, a better social safety net in general that puts a respectable floor on how far people can fall is the real answer.

The only thing I don't agree with is the background checks. They wouldn't be needed with the firearms restricted ID system. Every state can already do this on their ID starting tomorrow if they chose to do so. You could require any person who wants to buy a gun to get a free updated ID. As long as the ID was issued after that given date you're good to go. Unless, of course, you have a firearms restriction.

 

[jonnyboy]

Didn't the Vegas shooter use a bump stock?

The FBI says so. Anyone else who’s ever used or even just heard a bump stock used, says no probably not. Or more accurately, no fucking way.

 

[jonnyboy]

He did. Which was stupid. He was a millionaire and could have easily purchased fully automatic weapons, or even less expensively purchased the parts needed to convert the guns he used into full auto. Which would have been far more accurate and easier use.

Asshole was trying to make some kind of statement, but I have no idea what that was.

I’d put you on the higher end of firearm IQ in this forum…
You ever seen a bump stock used? Or heard an AR-15 with one? You ever watched the Vegas video?
Check out both and im genuinely curious what you think.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I’d put you on the higher end of firearm IQ in this forum…
You ever seen a bump stock used? Or heard an AR-15 with one? You ever watched the Vegas video?
Check out both and im genuinely curious what you think.

Honestly, bump stocks have seemed so pointless that I've never given them a second thought.
Here is a pretty good video that shows a good comparison :

• Semi-auto (5 rounds per second),
• Bump stock (7.5 rounds per second with incredibly poor accuracy [Side note: just look at how much that gun moves!])
• Full auto (at least 15 rounds per second [and I'd personally note, full auto still has much less accuracy than a semi-auto, but much better than a bump stock]).

I don't know if there is enough information available to determine if the official reports are lies, so I'm hesitant to assume they are.



And here is a list of his weapons with a gallery of evidence.
https://www.ktnv.com/news/las-vegas...idence-from-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock

Guns found inside Mandalay Bay rooms 32-135 and 32-134:

• Colt M4 Carbine AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. Front sight only.
• Noveske N4 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 40 round magazine. EOTech optic.
• LWRC M61C AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• POF USA P-308 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine
• Christensen Arms CA-15 AR-15 .223 Wylde with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• POF USA P-15 P AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• Colt Competition AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• Smith & Wesson 342 AirLite .38 caliber revolver with 4 cartridges, 1 expended cartridge case.
• LWRC M61C AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
• FNH FM15 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
• Daniel Defense DD5V1 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
• FNH FN15 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
• POF USA P15 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
• Colt M4 Carbine AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine.
• Daniel Defense M4A1 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
• LMT Def. 2000 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• Daniel Defense DDM4V11 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip. No magazine. EOTech optic.
• Sig Sauer SIG716 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, red dot optic and 25 round magazine.
• Daniel Defense DD5V1 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and scope. No magazine.
• FNH FN15 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
• Ruger American .308 caliber bolt action rifle with scope.
• LMT LM308MWS AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and red dot scope. No magazine.
• Ruger SR0762 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
• LMT LM308MWS AR-10 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.

Guns found inside Paddock's Mesquite home:

• Smith & Wesson SW99 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Smith & Wesson M&P9 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Glock 17 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• Sig Sauer 516 AR-15 .223/5.56 rifle with a bipod and scope.
• Arma-Lite SPRM001 AR-15 .223/5.56 rifle with a bipod and scope.
• Mossberg 590 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• LWRC M61C-IC-A5 AR-15 .223/5.56 rifle with a bipod and scope.
• Mossberg 590 V0348193 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• Mossberg 930 12 semi-automatic gauge shotgun.
• Arma-Lite SPRM001 AR-15 .223/5.56 rifle with a bipod and scope.
• Sig Sauer 516 2AR-15 .223/5.56 rifle, with a bipod. No sights or optics.
• Lantac LA-R15 Raven AR-15 .223 Wylde rifle with a bipod and scope.
• Mossberg 590 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• Arsenal Saiga 12 AK-47 style semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun.
• Arsenal Saiga 12 AK-47 style semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun.
• Beretta 92F 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• FN 5.7 5.7mm semi-automatic pistol.

Guns found inside Paddock's Reno home:

• Smith & Wesson 340 .357 caliber revolver.
• Beretta Pietro 92A1 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Remington Arms 870 Tactical 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• Mossberg 590 12 gauge pump action shotgun.
• Glock 17 Gen4 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Smith & Wesson M&P9 9mm semi-automatic pistol.
• Smith & Wesson M&P9 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

Other evidence found inside Paddock's rooms at Mandalay Bay:

• Metal “L” bracket with three screws securing it to the interior door/frame. (Picture 1)
• Two surveillance cameras from room service cart outside room 32-134. (Pictures 2-4)
• Bullet fragments (Pictures 2-4)

Seen in pictures 5-17:

• Blue plastic hose with funnel, fan and SCUBA mouthpiece attached
• Surveillance camera mounted to room door peephole
• Baby monitor camera (not mounted). Surveillance camera mounted to room door peephole
• Small sledgehammer
• Laptop computer
• Surveillance camera monitor
• Spotting scope
• Binoculars
• Expended .223/5.56 cartridge casings (approximately 1,050)
• Cellular phones
• Nevada Driver’s License – Stephen Paddock
• M life players card – Marilou Danley.
• Polymer 40 round AR-15 magazines (loaded)
• Steel 100 round AR-15 magazines (loaded)
• Polymer 25 round AR-10 magazines (loaded). Live Ammunition (approximately 5,280)
• Handwritten note with distance/bullet drop calculations
• Suitcases
• Duffel bags
• Soft rifle cases
• Towels

Seen in picture 18:

• Laptop computer (on bed)
• Disassembled laptop computer missing hard drive (on floor)
• Power hand drills
• Empty ammunition boxes and plastic bags
• Scuba mask
• Loose ammunition
• Miscellaneous hand tools and drill bits
• Miscellaneous screws and mounting brackets
• Suitcases, towels
• Empty rifle magazines

Seen in pictures 19-21

• Laptop computer connected to hallway surveillance cameras
• Polymer 25 round AR-10 magazines (loaded)
• Expended .308/7.62 cartridge casings (8)

Paddock's vehicle parked in the Mandalay Bay garage, pictures 22-24:

• 2017 Chrysler Pacifica, Nevada/74D401 towed to FBI garage
• 20x2 pound containers of exploding targets
• 10x1 pound containers of exploding targets
• 2x20 pound bags of explosive precursors
• Polymer 25 round AR-10 .308/7.62 magazines (loaded)
• Polymer 40 round AR-15 .223/5.56 magazines (loaded)
• Boxed ammunition
• Suitcases, towels

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[jonnyboy]

Honestly, bump stocks have seemed so pointless that I've never given them a second thought.
Here is a pretty good video that shows a good comparison :

• Semi-auto (5 rounds per second),
• Bump stock (7.5 rounds per second with incredibly poor accuracy [Side note: just look at how much that gun moves!])
• Full auto (at least 15 rounds per second [and I'd personally note, full auto still has much less accuracy than a semi-auto, but much better than a bump stock]).

I don't know if there is enough information available to determine if the official reports are lies, so I'm hesitant to assume they are.



And here is a list of his weapons with a gallery of evidence.
https://www.ktnv.com/news/las-vegas...idence-from-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock

Just imagining the effort it takes for a 50-60 year old man to carry that entire armory, plus ammunition, into a high rise hotel room. I’m guessing the cameras malfunctioned during this instance and there’s no documentation of it, just a hunch.
Do me a favor and look up some videos of a m240 belt fed machine gun being fired. If you’re really into research, clock the firing rate and compare it to the Vegas videos, see it’s a perfect match. Then, tell me what other two guns have a perfectly matching firing rate of 600 rounds per minute. Spoiler alert: not an AR15 with a bump stock, or any other gun for that matter.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Just imagining the effort it takes for a 50-60 year old man to carry that entire armory, plus ammunition, into a high rise hotel room. I’m guessing the cameras malfunctioned during this instance and there’s no documentation of it, just a hunch.
Do me a favor and look up some videos of a m240 belt fed machine gun being fired. If you’re really into research, clock the firing rate and compare it to the Vegas videos, see it’s a perfect match. Then, tell me what other two guns have a perfectly matching firing rate of 600 rounds per minute. Spoiler alert: not an AR15 with a bump stock, or any other gun for that matter.

Vegas Shooting


Skip to 1:00 to hear M240B


Skip to 1:50 to hear AR-15 with bump stock.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I wonder... Kinda horrifying to think about, but...Vegas shooter fired 1100 rounds and only 58 people died. I wonder if using the bump stock actually killed fewer people than if he'd just taken his time and aimed for a second or two between shots... Especially if he'd just brought half as many guns and spent the money saved on better optics.

It's very possible the death toll could be much higher without the bump stock... Even if he only hit a fatality in 1 out of 3 shots... That would still be 100 deaths... And as long as he were aiming at people in groups he'd probably have injured just as many with the misses...

 

[barfo]

I wonder... Kinda horrifying to think about, but...Vegas shooter fired 1100 rounds and only 58 people died. I wonder if using the bump stock actually killed fewer people than if he'd just taken his time and aimed for a second or two between shots... Especially if he'd just brought half as many guns and spent the money saved on better optics.

It's very possible the death toll could be much higher without the bump stock... Even if he only hit a fatality in 1 out of 3 shots... That's still 100 deaths... And as long as he were aiming at people in groups he'd probably have injured just as many with the misses...

Maybe he was a bad shot and wouldn't have hit anyone if he'd aimed.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Maybe he was a bad shot and wouldn't have hit anyone if he'd aimed.

barfo

He was already aiming. Just the least effective way possible, with about the least accurate rifle configuration possible.

Look at that video of the bump stock. The way the whole gun flops around.
He almost couldn't have had a less accurate setup. Even a person with bad aim would likely be far more accurate.

 

[beast blazer]

 

[beast blazer]