Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

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THE HCP said:
These guys think it’s ok for guns to be allowed in school? Regardless of training….. it’s a teenager walking around thousands of other teenagers with a gun strapped on em. Jesus Christ how do you defend this!!??
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Do you ever just provide your own thoughts instead of opining on others thoughts??
 
jonnyboy said:
And like we said, the original post was an extremely generalized blanket statement that was used to sound sensational by omitting context.
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Deflect all you want

I'm focused on the issue at hand. The allowing of any guns in schools by any student, 18 or not is stupid and should not be allowed.
 
I think guns should be allowed to carry guns to protect themselves from other guns.

The best way to stop a bad gun with a gun is a good gun with a gun.
 
THE HCP said:
I’ve seen somebody gunned down and murdered at school as a youth. Sorry if I feel there’s no place for guns in the hands of teenagers at schools. Sorry bro.
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totally fair assessment. Ive seen fights ar school where im glad a gun wasn't near, or i know it would be used. ive seen two people shot and killed up close. One i knew.

Ive had my drummer shot and killed in the back down the street from my home.

please understand, as Johnny pointed out the other day, that not everyones reaction or stance is going to be the same. Some will think these are reasons why we should be allowed to defend ourselves. And this is the reason we cant outlaw or heavily restrict gun ownership.

Everytime its said no one has an answer, but the reality is this:

good people have guns and bad people have guns. Heavily restrict or ban guns and the only people left with them are bad.

Sorry but that is not a society i want to live in.

how do your MP buddies feel about this topic(gun restrictions in general, not the school issue) ?
 
Chris Craig said:
I'm not going to play semantics with Crandc's post or mine. I know I what I meant. You can go talk to her about her post if you want.

No students should ever be allowed to carry guns at school. Regardless.

An 18 year wants to get a permit and carry a gun around on his/her own time fine. Not at school.

The answer to school shootings is not to arm students.
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I don't think this prevents schools from banning guns does it? I didn't see anything that specifically forced a school's hand.
 
Chris Craig said:
No one should be allowed to carry a gun at a school except a school officer
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I think we should actually offer training for teachers who want to carry at school. They should definitely get a psych eval etc, but the right teachers having the ability to defend the students is a good idea, IMO.

I'd even offer those teachers an extra $10k per year...
 
THE HCP said:
I’ve seen somebody gunned down and murdered at school as a youth. Sorry if I feel there’s no place for guns in the hands of teenagers at schools. Sorry bro.
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Was that gun there legally and in the possession of a trained, background checked, and permitted citizen?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think we should actually offer training for teachers who want to carry at school. They should definitely get a psych eval etc, but the right teachers having the ability to defend the students is a good idea, IMO.

I'd even offer those teachers an extra $10k per year...
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Hazard pay. Id consider it a must. Or at the very least pay for al rye training and evals etc. So they pay nothing.

hey!!! Something we actually agree on!!!!! Lol.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think we should actually offer training for teachers who want to carry at school. They should definitely get a psych eval etc, but the right teachers having the ability to defend the students is a good idea, IMO.

I'd even offer those teachers an extra $10k per year...
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I disagree

Guns in school...any guns in school is bad shit waiting to happen
 
Chris Craig said:
I disagree

Guns in school...any guns in school is bad shit waiting to happen
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That's OK. We can agree to disagree.
I guess we'll see if school shootings in Wisconsin skyrocket.

I have a hunch they will not.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think this prevents schools from banning guns does it? I didn't see anything that specifically forced a school's hand.
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Oh it would if it made to law. The governor is going to veto it so it won't. If it did and a school didn't allow it, they would get sued and the court would likely back the student and force the school to let him/her and thus others carry in schools.

This is all a very very bad precedent to set.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Was that gun there legally and in the possession of a trained, background checked, and permitted citizen?
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Doesn't matter

It's still a gun in school

If a kid is allowed to carry a gun at school all it will take is a fight and he could pull out his gun and shoot.

Kids getting bullied could carry and shoot their bully claiming self defense

Etc etc
 
It’s so fucking pathetic that we are at a place where the answer to school shootings is to have more guns at school. It’s just so so crazy. Country is so backwards. And it’s a lost cause. It won’t be better in our lifetimes.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That's OK. We can agree to disagree.
I guess we'll see if school shootings in Wisconsin skyrocket.

I have a hunch they will not.
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We sure can

Like I said the bill in Wisconsin will be vetoed (if the Republicans are still allowing him to do that) but other red states will likely replicate the bill.

Maybe. Maybe not. Not a chance that should be taken. More students will die if this happens guaranteed. Deaths will come from it. All because Republicans care more about guns than the lives of children.
 
calvin natt said:
It’s so fucking pathetic that we are at a place where the answer to school shootings is to have more guns at school. It’s just so so crazy. Country is so backwards. And it’s a lost cause. It won’t be better in our lifetimes.
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Yeah, it's fucking stupid
 
calvin natt said:
It’s so fucking pathetic that we are at a place where the answer to school shootings is to have more guns at school. It’s just so so crazy. Country is so backwards. And it’s a lost cause. It won’t be better in our lifetimes.
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Correct. We will do nothing about guns in our lifetimes. It's legitimately a waste of time trying to limit them.

Fortunately there are far more effective ways to to save and improve far more lives.

It makes you wonder why anybody is wasting political capital on this issue...
 
America hates solving problems. We sure love to put bandaids on broken arms though. Healthcare, guns, really anything. Border- can’t solve. Education - can’t solve. Next time I hear “greatest country on earth” I’m gonna barf.
 
calvin natt said:
America hates solving problems. We sure love to put bandaids on broken arms though. Healthcare, guns, really anything. Border- can’t solve. Education - can’t solve. Next time I hear “greatest country on earth” I’m gonna barf.
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But we can solve education. We can solve healthcare. But not if we keep chasing after fairy tails...
 
Phatguysrule said:
But we can solve education. We can solve healthcare. But not if we keep chasing after fairy tails...
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and pointing the finger across the line drawn.

Some people( wont mention names) just point fingers wothout a single solution and blame everyone else for being fucked…

these people have no clue they are part of the issue creating our stagnant government.

its kinda like saying… “i wont budge an inch!! Im right about this and any other take is wrong… now wont you work with me to solve this?”

“come on compromise with me aNd lets solve this…”

were fucked because too many people blame vs solve.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Correct. We will do nothing about guns in our lifetimes. It's legitimately a waste of time trying to limit them.
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Disagree. The problem is systematic and unless people hear about it over and over and over - they will never vote to overturn it - so it needs to continue to keep it in people's minds.

This is such a stupid backward outhouse level rule that without continued struggle to overturn it (and that means a lot of failures) - it will never be fixed.
 
andalusian said:
Disagree. The problem is systematic and unless people hear about it over and over and over - they will never vote to overturn it - so it needs to continue to keep it in people's minds.

This is such a stupid backward outhouse level rule that without continued struggle to overturn it (and that means a lot of failures) - it will never be fixed.
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It doesn't matter one way or the other in the grand scheme of things.

This will not impact violent crime or death rates at all. Not even a blip. Kids will still be 20x more likely to die at the hands of their parents than by a gun at school.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It doesn't matter one way or the other in the grand scheme of things.

This will not impact violent crime or death rates at all. Not even a blip. Kids will still be 20x more likely to die at the hands of their parents than by a gun at school.
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Kids will die if this law is allowed. It's inevitable.

It will just be another category of school shooting.

School shooting with illegally carried guns

School shooting with legally carried guns

The thing about statistics is they devalue human life

1 death, 5 deaths...statiscally a blip...nothing of importance....but in reality it is lives cost...lives of children.
 
Chris Craig said:
Oh it would if it made to law. The governor is going to veto it so it won't. If it did and a school didn't allow it, they would get sued and the court would likely back the student and force the school to let him/her and thus others carry in schools.

This is all a very very bad precedent to set.
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I don't think so... Schools can prevent you from wearing specific clothes. They can prevent you from bringing a weapon in their buildings if they choose.
 
Chris Craig said:
Kids will die if this law is allowed. It's inevitable.

It will just be another category of school shooting.

School shooting with illegally carried guns

School shooting with legally carried guns

The thing about statistics is they devalue human life

1 death, 5 deaths...statiscally a blip...nothing of importance....but in reality it is lives cost...lives of children.
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Kids will die either way. Gun laws aren't the reason. In about the same numbers, either way.

About 20x less often than they are killed by their own parents.

Let's put our efforts behind saving the most lives rather than wasting it on stuff we can't change.
 
Chris Craig said:
Kids will die if this law is allowed. It's inevitable.

It will just be another category of school shooting.

School shooting with illegally carried guns

School shooting with legally carried guns

The thing about statistics is they devalue human life

1 death, 5 deaths...statiscally a blip...nothing of importance....but in reality it is lives cost...lives of children.
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And far more lives could be saved with the political capital that is wasted on gun control.

So again, possibly saving 5 lives via gun control (arguable) at the cost of thousands (millions?) that could be saved with a more progressive social agenda (not arguable, statically proven, well documented).

Not smart.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Kids will die either way. Gun laws aren't the reason. In about the same numbers, either way.

About 20x less often than they are killed by their own parents.

Let's put our efforts behind saving the most lives rather than wasting it on stuff we can't change.
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We won't save lives by placing guns in the hands of students
 
Chris Craig said:
We won't save lives by placing guns in the hands of students
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We certainly could. Most active shooters stop firing once an opposing gun arrives.

But that's beside the point. I'm saying our politicians bickering about that costs us exponentially more lives by strengthening the right wing agenda and hardening people against democrats.

There is no upside to arguing against gun rights. It's all downside.
 
andalusian said:
Disagree. The problem is systematic and unless people hear about it over and over and over - they will never vote to overturn it - so it needs to continue to keep it in people's minds.

This is such a stupid backward outhouse level rule that without continued struggle to overturn it (and that means a lot of failures) - it will never be fixed.
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vote to overturn what? The school measure or gun possession overall? I scrolled back snd it was a bit confusing.
 
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