Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

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Lanny said:
Our rates have not dropped nearly as much as Australia's and Europe's rates are less than half ours. Europe's rates have been a lot less than ours because they've had gun control a lot longer than we have.
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Europe's violent crime and murder rates have been lower than ours because they have had better access to education, healthcare, and better social safety nets than we have since WWII.

There is no more compelling data I've seen which can associate Europe's drops in violent crime and murder rates following increased gun control that didn't also occur here in the US and other western nations. Those drops in violent crime and murder rates were direct results of eliminating leaded fuel and expanding access to healthcare (namely birth control and abortions).
 
Chris Craig said:
I disagree

Guns in school...any guns in school is bad shit waiting to happen
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I’m not crazy about the technicality of students potentially possessing a weapon at school even if it is legally. But at the end of the day, any students actually having a gun at school legally under this law will be rare. It’s only 18 year olds first of all, which make up a small percentage of school age students, and they are legally considered adults anyway. Second, how many students within this margin are going to take the time to get permitted and complete the training? Not a very large number. You’re so worried about a very small handful of proactive go-getter type high school seniors jumping through hoops to legally obtain a concealed carry permit when there are almost certainly more guns in lockers RIGHT NOW illegally across this country than will ever be there because of this law.
 
Orion Bailey said:
This is only partially correct and misleading, just like crands post.
No, not any student can just conceal carry.
Not even just any 18 year old student.
only 18 year old that have gone through the proper requirements.

This is much different than your and crands post.

id consider this pretty much fake news. But only the right does that.
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He didn't say all students can carry guns. I don't even see where he implied it. He said it as if saying there are students who can carry concealed guns. Now, guns in the hands of anyone that young can easily get into the hands of other, younger students who might run off playfully and get into big time trouble. This simply would not end well.
 
jonnyboy said:
I’m not crazy about the technicality of students potentially possessing a weapon at school even if it is legally. But at the end of the day, any students actually having a gun at school legally under this law will be rare. It’s only 18 year olds first of all, which make up a small percentage of school age students, and they are legally considered adults anyway. Second, how many students within this margin are going to take the time to get permitted and complete the training? Not a very large number. You’re so worried about a very small handful of proactive go-getter type high school seniors jumping through hoops to legally obtain a concealed carry permit when there are almost certainly more guns in lockers RIGHT NOW illegally across this country than will ever be there because of this law.
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One student with a gun is too many students with a gun
 
Chris Craig said:
One student with a gun is too many students with a gun
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Students have taken guns to school for hundreds of years. Most recently they have been left in their pickup so they could go hunting after school... It pretty much always turns out just fine.

Kids don't just see a guns then turn into blood thirsty killers...
 
Chris Craig said:
One student with a gun is too many students with a gun
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This is just you saying “I don’t like guns”, which is fine, but it doesn’t address the topic in any logical way. You seem the be approaching the argument from a world where guns don’t exist and there is an idea to arbitrarily introduce them into schools. Unfortunately this isn’t the case, we’re past that. It’s damage control at this point. If some fuckhead wants to walk into a school or church and start killing people, they need to know there’s a real world possibility it won’t work out for them.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is just you saying “I don’t like guns”, which is fine, but it doesn’t address the topic in any logical way. You seem the be approaching the argument from a world where guns don’t exist and there is an idea to arbitrarily introduce them into schools. Unfortunately this isn’t the case, we’re past that. It’s damage control at this point. If some fuckhead wants to walk into a school or church and start killing people, they need to know there’s a real world possibility it won’t work out for them.
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Guns exist not in denial if that. Quite the opposite. We live in a world where guns are not allowed in school and never should be for good reason. There is no place for guns in school.

It's already not going to work out. They are either going to be killed or imprisoned for life.
 
Chris Craig said:
Guns exist not in denial if that. Quite the opposite. We live in a world where guns are not allowed in school and never should be for good reason. There is no place for guns in school.

It's already not going to work out. They are either going to be killed or imprisoned for life.
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And again, as soon as an opposing gun shows up the killing stops.
Every single time.

You could go from 10-20 casualties to 0 or 1 by having a responsible armed individual near where the shooting starts.

Likely, if people know there are armed individuals at school the school will not be targeted.

Of course, the school will likely not be targeted anyway...
 
jonnyboy said:
After killing as many people as they want with no pushback.
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Parents need to pay the fuck attention to their kids and not let them get ahold of guns.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And again, as soon as an opposing gun shows up the killing stops.
Every single time.

You could go from 10-20 casualties to 0 or 1 by having a responsible armed individual near where the shooting starts.

Likely, if people know there are armed individuals at school the school will not be targeted.

Of course, the school will likely not be targeted anyway...
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Not every single time.

A kid with a gun facing off with a shooter could panic

You have a shootout

More innocent people could die
 
Chris Craig said:
Not every single time.

A kid with a gun facing off with a shooter could panic

You have a shootout

More innocent people could die
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The “shootout at the ok corral” theory has been debunked. The only thing to ever thwart a mass shooting so far has been another person with a gun.
 
Chris Craig said:
Not every single time.

A kid with a gun facing off with a shooter could panic

You have a shootout

More innocent people could die
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I can't think of a time a shootout ensued at a school after an opposing gun showed up.

The shooter leaves or commits suicide.
 
jonnyboy said:
Mass shootings are happening, we’re past the point of contemplating hypotheticals. It hasn’t thwarted any mass shootings or saved any lives. The only thing that’s done that so far is another armed person.
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Yes, they are....because parents aren't being responsible with how they store their guns and how they rear their kids. They aren't paying attention.

It's not a hypothetical parents have come across their kids plans to commit mass shootings and stop them from happening by calling the police and school.
 
jonnyboy said:
The “shootout at the ok corral” theory has been debunked. The only thing to ever thwart a mass shooting so far has been another person with a gun.
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Also been thwarted by parents/guardians finding out the and before they happen and stopping them.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I can't think of a time a shootout ensued at a school after an opposing gun showed up.

The shooter leaves or commits suicide.
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Because students haven't been allowed to carry guns at school.

At columbine there was a shootout between school cops and the shooters. It didn't stop them. They still killed many students after that before killing themselves.
 
Chris Craig said:
Yes, they are....because parents aren't being responsible with how they store their guns and how they rear their kids. They aren't paying attention.

It's not a hypothetical parents have come across their kids plans to commit mass shootings and stop them from happening by calling the police and school.
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Your points aren’t bad ones. Im not disregarding the idea that those are things that need addressed. I just think there needs to be another line of defense when those steps fail, which they so often do.
 
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