Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

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Chris Craig said:
It's a crime to walk into a school with a gun in Oregon and say you are going to shoot someone. The police would be called and you would be escorted to jail, do not pass go, or at least to a mental institution. There is harm and there is foul in it.
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Pretty sure it's a felony to carry a gun into a school. Intent would add to that. Brandishing is illegal in itself, even if not in a school.

Yeah, this is illegal any way you want to look at it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Pretty sure it's a felony to carry a gun into a school. Intent would add to that. Brandishing is illegal in itself, even if not in a school.

Yeah, this is illegal any way you want to look at it.
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Very
 
Phatguysrule said:
Almost like police shouldn't run into a situation guns a blazin'...
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I agree. It's like they want to shoot someone as bad as the gunman does. This guy wasn't the gunman, if they asked him to put the gun down he would have. Apparently, they shoot first and asked questions later.
 
FROM MY COLD DEAD FEET!

Literally!

18yrisvbemq81.jpg
 
Chris Craig said:
I agree. It's like they want to shoot someone as bad as the gunman does. This guy wasn't the gunman, if they asked him to put the gun down he would have. Apparently, the shoot first and asked questions later.
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The first thing police should focus on is
"Do no harm"
Then
"Serve and protect"
Then
"Duck and cover".
They should have access to the best body armor money can buy and they should be paid well enough to be in the top 15% of income earners, and have a house provided to them free of charge in the city of their employment.

If they sell the house when they leave/retire they should be required to sell back to the police department at a heavily discounted rate for future department use, while also being compensated for any gains they would have earned on that house if they owned it.
 
calvin natt said:
It’s not a gun problem, it’s the idiot kids faults

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Newsflash:
Violent Crime and Murder Rates Increase In Times Of Decreased Stability

Let's not forget that the country locking down, high gas prices and less disposable income may result in people driving less, which would tend to result in fewer auto accidents, hence fewer deaths...
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10315

Blaming a tool is generally pointless. Especially since you can guarantee the 2nd amendment will not be changed in the next couple decades.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Newsflash:
Violent Crime and Murder Rates Increase In Times Of Decreased Stability

Let's not forget that the country locking down, high gas prices and less disposable income may result in people driving less, which would tend to result in fewer auto accidents, hence fewer deaths...
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10315

Blaming a tool is generally pointless. Especially since you can guarantee the 2nd amendment will not be changed in the next couple decades.
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Got it - so since Covid and lockdowns only happened in the US, should we move somewhere else where this is surely not happening?
 
calvin natt said:
Got it - so since Covid and lockdowns only happened in the US, should we move somewhere else where this is surely not happening?
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I'm not seeing the connection you're trying to make... Did violent crime and murder rates not increase elsewhere in the world? Did miles driven, and thereby auto deaths not decrease elsewhere?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm not seeing the connection you're trying to make... Did violent crime and murder rates not increase elsewhere in the world? Did miles driven, and thereby auto deaths not decrease elsewhere?
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Guns leading cause of death now for kids in the US. Same for other 1st world countries? Or no just us?
 
calvin natt said:
Guns leading cause of death now for kids in the US. Same for other 1st world countries? Or no just us?
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Guns aren't a part of the equation in other countries. They are a part of the equation here. And that's not going to change.

What is the leading cause in other countries?

In the US, car auto deaths dropped from 10k to 7k thanks to safety improvements in vehicles, increased cost of of vehicles and insurance, reduced miles driven per person, fewer kids driving at 16, and increased education for kids who do drive.

Violent crime and murder (as well as suicide) increased with tumultuous times. As it always does. Not to mention, our population increased nearly 20% which would account for over 60% of the increase by itself...

Is there any evidence that guns have caused a larger increase for the US than other countries? If so, you might be on to something... But then, even so, the 2nd ammendment isn't going to change.

The only way we'll improve it would be to increase our gini coefficient.

*Edit* and "kids" being up to 24yrs old... Which includes all of the gang related shootings. Which no laws or restriction could possibly impact. Again, increased gini coefficient solves this problem better than anything. Everything else is a wasted effort.
 
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Almost exclusively, kids (mostly criminals themselves) are killed by other kids, blacks (mostly criminals themselves) are killed by other blacks, caucasians (mostly criminals themselves) are killed by other caucasians, asians (mostly criminals themselves) are killed by other asians...

Nearly all violent crime in America is poor on poor, neighbor on neighbor, relative on relative.

Only among gangs is racism a measurable factor.

Type of weapon available is inconsequential to the outcome.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm not seeing the connection you're trying to make... Did violent crime and murder rates not increase elsewhere in the world? Did miles driven, and thereby auto deaths not decrease elsewhere?
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I think a clearer correlation is that fewer miles driven = increased violent crime and murder rates. :dunno:
 
calvin natt said:
Throw in some apple pie and this is as American as it gets

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Apparently a bunch of teenagers decided to pull up in their cars in the ajoining parking lot and have a fist fight, which turned into a gun fight.

Pretty sad to see those little kids have to scramble or get on the ground in fear of being shot at a baseball game.
 
calvin natt said:
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Yeah, so again I don't think 2463 deaths over 40 years (62 deaths per year) is worth restricting the rights of every American.

I'm not going to support universal background checks over 62 deaths per year. Especially when there are far less controversial ways to get the same or better results.

And there are similarly controversial ways to get FAR better results.

*Edit* Actually 49 deaths per year, since the other 20% were apparently already illegally used
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Teenagers don't have a right to firearms. Those guns were being used illegally. People who break the law don't usually worry much about breaking other laws. I don't think more laws are the solution here...
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Just once I’d like to see you admit that had guns not been involved in a situation, things could have turned out better. You straight defend EVERY situation that happens with some random bullshit. Just admit it…. These kids would have been safer with no guns firing all around them.
 
THE HCP said:
Just once I’d like to see you admit that had guns not been involved in a situation, things could have turned out better. You straight defend EVERY situation that happens with some random bullshit. Just admit it…. These kids would have been safer with no guns firing all around them.
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No guns isn't a realistic option in the US. Kids are safer without cars. Kids are safer without swimming pools. Kids are safer without playing sports. Kids are safer without stepfathers.

I'm not about spending time in some fairy-tale world that isn't possible.

So, as much as you would like it, unfortunately I don't think that will ever happen.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No guns isn't a realistic option in the US. Kids are safer without cars. Kids are safer without swimming pools. Kids are safer without playing sports. Kids are safer without stepfathers.

I'm not about spending time in some fairy-tale world that isn't possible.

So, as much as you would like it, unfortunately I don't think that will ever happen.
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He's not saying no one should have guns. He's saying those teenagers shouldn't have them and the kids playing baseball would have been safer had they not had them.

Stricter gun laws would have made it alot harder for them to get those guns.

Those little leaguers are traumatized for life and your response is pretty much a shoulder shrug and an oh well.
 
Chris Craig said:
He's not saying no one should have guns. He's saying those teenagers shouldn't have them and the kids playing baseball would have been safer had they not had them.

Stricter gun laws would have made it alot harder for them to get those guns.
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I disagree. It's already illegal for them to have guns. If Americans are free to own guns American kids (superficially teenagers) will be able to get guns. It's that simple.

Those little leaguers are traumatized for life and your response is pretty much a shoulder shrug and an oh well.
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Not at all. My response is that I'm not willing to restrict the rights of every American by means which offer, at best, a very slight reduction in violent crime or murder rates.

Again, I'm more than happy to restrict dangerous people. I'm not willing to make sweeping nationwide laws which restricts people's right to defend themselves. I am ALL FOR other options which have been proven to be far more effective and efficient, and options which do no restrict the rights of law abiding American citizens.

And every time a post is made in here implying that guns are a major cause of our violent crime and murder rates I'll point out the flaws if I see them. Which is the position I've supported with data in this very forum many times.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
As a stepfather, I disagree.
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Excellent point! Just because children are 5-15x more likely to be abused by their stepfather than anybody else doesn't mean all stepfathers are bad. So we shouldn't be restricting the right to be a stepfather. Or to own swimming pools... etc...

These things take nuance. They are more complex than just "stepfathers" are bad, or "pools are bad", or "guns are bad", etc.

Again, we should certainly prevent dangerous people from legally owning weapons. But that doesn't mean we need to make it more difficult for every law abiding American.
 
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